Saw this brake set up ot NOPI, WOW!

Joined
4 April 2002
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Location
Nashville, TN
I put my order in for them this week. Life time warranty on the Titanium rotors. About 70 pounds of weight savings. Track ready with a pad change. A bit pricey but awesome nonetheless.

ZMIbrakes.com
 
Juice said:
On their application guide it states years '92 and up. Why not '91? Then in their FAQ it includes '91. Are there pics of the kit on the car anywhere?

Just a typo is right........91-92 same,same.

I put the order in for my ZMI kit on Friday.
I went with the 14 inch front 13 inch rear.
The kit is made to order and will take 2 weeks to build. I will be out of town untill the 18th of Oct. I will have the brakes on that night and will post Pics soon after.
 
I wish I could dump 8 G's on brakes! :eek: Sad thing is I just got my car back with more HP and now need to do a brake upgrade. Not sure if I can afford to go the route you are taking though!!
 
AJKS said:
Just a typo is right........91-92 same,same.

I put the order in for my ZMI kit on Friday.
I went with the 14 inch front 13 inch rear.
The kit is made to order and will take 2 weeks to build. I will be out of town untill the 18th of Oct. I will have the brakes on that night and will post Pics soon after.

Hmmm... their PDF shows only one number for the NSX, a 13 inch set apparently for the front. So what did you order? Also, are you sure they will clear your wheels?

I'll be interested in what you think of them but I'm a bit nervous about a solid .25 inch thick rotor. As much as I hate unsprung weight, rotor mass helps dissipate heat. If their approach to cooling really works, then great. A day at the track should tell.

I'm also curious about their use Titanium. That's a very popular claim today but nobody ever says how much Titanium their product contains. Is that the weight savings or is it just light because it's thin? Are you stuck always running their pads or are they a common size so you can try different ones?

Well I hope they turn out to be what you're looking for but at first glance I'm not sure how much is flash vs. substance.
 
Their cost is double everything else out there except some Brembro setups. You had better have a track car to justify the need to stop on that big of a dime. But yes, they do look incredible. I bet they do great at the car shows.

AJKS, I just noticed you live in TN. I would love to test out your new brake system if we ever meet.
 
sjs said:
Hmmm... their PDF shows only one number for the NSX, a 13 inch set apparently for the front. So what did you order? Also, are you sure they will clear your wheels?

I'll be interested in what you think of them but I'm a bit nervous about a solid .25 inch thick rotor. As much as I hate unsprung weight, rotor mass helps dissipate heat. If their approach to cooling really works, then great. A day at the track should tell.

I'm also curious about their use Titanium. That's a very popular claim today but nobody ever says how much Titanium their product contains. Is that the weight savings or is it just light because it's thin? Are you stuck always running their pads or are they a common size so you can try different ones?

Well I hope they turn out to be what you're looking for but at first glance I'm not sure how much is flash vs. substance.

Look at the price chart. You will see a 14 inch upgrade for 200 bucks. They are .35 thick not .25. I asked all the questions you asked and I would not have orderd them unless they will work. They will clear stock 16/17's. Titanium is not that much lighter than cast iron. From what Mike at ZMI told me they are solid Titanium. So yes, the weight savings is because the brakes are thin. The thing is you cant have a .35 inch thick cast rotor. So because of Titanium being able to handle the heat you can make a thin rotor. If you call Mike at ZMI he will cut you a deal. Tell him John told you to call. You will see when it comes to the bottom line (Front/Rear e-barke set up all SS brake lines) you will see the price is just a bit more than what else is out there now. Also take into account the fact that the rotors cary a life time warranty. The pads by the way are off the shelf parts (not sure what from).
 
AJKS said:
Titanium is not that much lighter than cast iron. From what Mike at ZMI told me they are solid Titanium.

...Titanium being able to handle the heat you can make a thin rotor.

Hey I'm not trying to cause trouble or anything but, Titanium not much lighter than Iron? Iron pure, pig, wrought, or cast has densities ranging from 7.2 to 7.6 g/cc. While Titanium is 4.5 to 4.8 g/cc. Just as a reference Stainless 304 is 8.03.
 
AJKS said:
Look at the price chart. You will see a 14 inch upgrade for 200 bucks. They are .35 thick not .25. I asked all the questions you asked and I would not have orderd them unless they will work. They will clear stock 16/17's. Titanium is not that much lighter than cast iron. From what Mike at ZMI told me they are solid Titanium. So yes, the weight savings is because the brakes are thin. The thing is you cant have a .35 inch thick cast rotor. So because of Titanium being able to handle the heat you can make a thin rotor. If you call Mike at ZMI he will cut you a deal. Tell him John told you to call. You will see when it comes to the bottom line (Front/Rear e-barke set up all SS brake lines) you will see the price is just a bit more than what else is out there now. Also take into account the fact that the rotors cary a life time warranty. The pads by the way are off the shelf parts (not sure what from).

The PDF version of the Application Guide is different than their HTML version in multiple ways including price and the .35 inch version.:confused: Neither make any reference to rear brakes or handbrakes that I can see, but then I have little patience for sloppy web sites.

As already noted above, Titanium is much lighter than iron, but clearly a big part of the difference would be thickness. I still question the claim of all Titanium, but anything is possible.

"Handling" heat is not the real issue for the rotor. Even if it is OK with the heat, the brake fluid is not, and that's where the problems occur. Since the rotor is thinner it holds less heat, so if it cools properly then it may not transfer the heat back through the pads and caliper to the fluid. But that's the real question.

Their "lifetime gaurentee" is not what you make it out to be. They guarantee against warping and cracking, which is great, but not against wearing out. On that they say "premature" wear, which of course means whatever they want it to. BTW, can they be turned? On a standard brake lathe? How much per rotor to replace?

I find it hard to believe that the 14' version will fit inside stock 16 inch wheels, but then they aren't using the larger caliper.

Personally I don't care for the looks, (way to NOPI for me) but if they prove to work correctly including at the track then I'm sure I could find a way to get over that.
 
I did say Titanium is not much lighter than cast iron (not much being the key here) I did not mean pound to pound I meant Rotor to Rotor (cast vs Titanium) When you compare a Titanium rotor like ZMI's to a cast iron unit cut the exact same way you are not going to have that much weight savings. The fact remains that you cannot have a cast iron rotor cut like a ZMI unit.
I did not ask if the 14 inch rotors would work with the stock 16/17 set up. I did ask if the standard kit (13" front) would work with the stock wheels. I went with the 14" set up and did not to think to ask if they would would work with the 16" wheels.
So just out of curiosity why all the negitave crap about these new brakes?
If they work they work. If they do what they say they will do then ZMI brakes would be bought by anyone willing to pay the price, RIGHT?
The price, yea a bit expensive. Comptech super charger, some would say it is expensive too but it works, and people still buy them over lower priced SC. Gee..... why is that?
I am not a Tech/sales person for ZMI. I was just trying to point out a new product I saw at NOPI. ZMI will be at SEMA this year and then I guess the look of the rotor will be to SEMAish. hahaha.
If you have any more tech questions e-mail or call their 800#. The ZMI guys seem to know there shit.
 
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If a piece of steel weights 100% the same size in Titanium is 55%, the same in Alum is 33%, the same in Magnesium is 25%, yes there are slight changes depending on the exact alloy.

I cannot believe a non vented automotive rotor would hold up to race track use, it may not damage the disc, but it will cook the pads, which can also warp, and cook the brake fluid. They may be fine for everyday street driving, as braking from 70MPH is a whole lot different then from 160MPH.
I can tell you a small difference in rotor thickness will make the difference between warping and not.
I am unaware of anyone who uses Ti as a rotor material in the Motorcycle racing world, where we use carbon/carbon brakes, cast iron discs, stainless steel discs, have tried ti discs, plasma spraied alum discs.
Berylium is a great material for a disc, except for certain rather bad side effects.
 
I guess I'm in the minority, but I think they look pretty cool. There should be a significant weight savings, especially over a Brembo 14" kit. A Brembo 14" disc is 16.2lbs compared to 5.1lbs for a 14" ZMI Ti disc, and 14lbs for OEM. A Brembo F-50 caliper is 9.2lbs, compared to the 5.4lb ZMI caliper, and 14lbs for OEM. Altogether that's a savings of about 60lbs compared to a Brembo 14" set up, and about 70lbs compared to OEM. That's a lot of unsprung weight, but it will be offset by the wheels.

I think the two things you'll have to watch out for are the wheel size and disc wear. I needed 18" wheels to clear my 14" brakes. Also, most Ti discs are ceramic coated for wear.
 
AJKS said:
...So just out of curiosity why all the negitave crap about these new brakes?...

Speaking only for myself...

Actually, I thought my comments were quite reserved. I'm not saying they are crap, but whenever a new product comes along, especially from an unknown (to me) supplier, I start by questioning everything that sounds even faintly off. I think it is unwise not to challenge their claims. Sure, I could pick up the phone but I'll get their standard sales answers just like you did. Have you ever know a sales person to tell it straight and without bias? So the first step is to toss it around here on the forums to see what others may know and better prepare hard questions.

As for why my initial reaction is to be suspicious:

~ I know enough about brakes to realize that these deviate from accepted norms about what works. Maybe they're just the first to make this approach work for cars, or maybe they are pretenders, but I'm not sending in my $$ based on cool looks and claims from some website and neither should you.

~ As noted earlier, Titanium is a very popular "X" material for marketing these days whether or not it has any real benefit. Having that as a primary claim to fame is a red flag of possible hype without substance.

~ These brakes are clearly designed to catch the eye of the NOPI and yes SEMA crowd, of which I most certainly not a part. While there may be plenty of good hardcore performance vendors at those shows they are outnumbered by the ones selling flashy junk that has nothing to do with real performance despite the claims in their brochures. That description fits the vast majority of wheels sold today for example. The bakes may be as good as they say, but they absolutely scream poseur. An old cynic like me tends to assume that anything that looks that way is for the cruising crowd not the serious performance junkies. But then I pause and make an effort towards an open mind. :)
 
sjs said:
Speaking only for myself...

Actually, I thought my comments were quite reserved. I'm not saying they are crap, but whenever a new product comes along, especially from an unknown (to me) supplier, I start by questioning everything that sounds even faintly off. I think it is unwise not to challenge their claims. Sure, I could pick up the phone but I'll get their standard sales answers just like you did. Have you ever know a sales person to tell it straight and without bias? So the first step is to toss it around here on the forums to see what others may know and better prepare hard questions.

As for why my initial reaction is to be suspicious:

~ I know enough about brakes to realize that these deviate from accepted norms about what works. Maybe they're just the first to make this approach work for cars, or maybe they are pretenders, but I'm not sending in my $$ based on cool looks and claims from some website and neither should you.

~ As noted earlier, Titanium is a very popular "X" material for marketing these days whether or not it has any real benefit. Having that as a primary claim to fame is a red flag of possible hype without substance.

~ These brakes are clearly designed to catch the eye of the NOPI and yes SEMA crowd, of which I most certainly not a part. While there may be plenty of good hardcore performance vendors at those shows they are outnumbered by the ones selling flashy junk that has nothing to do with real performance despite the claims in their brochures. That description fits the vast majority of wheels sold today for example. The bakes may be as good as they say, but they absolutely scream poseur. An old cynic like me tends to assume that anything that looks that way is for the cruising crowd not the serious performance junkies. But then I pause and make an effort towards an open mind. :)

Well I will say this....There are alot of vendors out there selling crap. They make items flashy and set up at shows to sell their products. The thing here is ZMI is not selling a $99 hood for a Civic. They are out there selling to a crowd of Viper, Vet, NSX, ect owners. They claim that they have had the brakes in the IRL world for some time and are race proven. Can anyone out there on prime find out if there is any truth to this?
SJS, please do me a favor and call them on monday and ask some hard questions, do some digin. Maybe you will find out something I did not. It would be nice to see the ZMI brakes track and street proven for NSX's.
 
how can i help?

I've been seeing quite a posts here about our titanium brake rotors and how they work. Well, ask away. Also, let me apologize for the "sloppy" website. We are trying hard to keep it updated as much as possible, however, we all know computers can sometimes decide not work with us at the most inappropriate times.

Just a few notes:
1. We do NOT use a ceramic coating. We use a patented intermetallic coating that not only hardens the titanium but also allows greater heat transfer. It actually becomes part of the titanium hence its resistance to wear.

2. Rahal Racing IRL team in case you were curious.

3. What does the warranty cover? Breakage, cracking, warping and premature wear. Premature meaning if this thing ever wears out in the next decade or so, we'll replace it. If you wreck your car or do something else silly that's where the "limited" part of it comes in.

4. Heat dissapation- yes- they heat up faster but they also get rid of it a lot faster than cast iron or steel. Using a racing compound on the track, you find you get a minimal amount of wear over regular rotors. Insignificant unless you plan on running the entire season on one set of pads.

5. Our calipers are bit more "low profile" than others which allows us to fit a 13" rotor into a 16" wheel.

Hopefully, this will help somewhat... I realize this is very new to just about everyone here. As far as the look, it is purely function. We didn't design it to be NOPI or SEMA. We designed it to perform, pure and simple. We have been working with ti rotors since the early nineties. So, they do have some history behind them.

Please ask away or call me, toll free 866 964 7867 if you like. Easy, hard or just crazy questions are welcomed.
 
It's too bad that these won't be ready in time for NSXPO. I'll bet quite a few people would pull out their checkbooks if this kit proved itself in front of 200-300 NSXers at Infineon.
 
AJKS said:
...do me a favor and call them on monday and ask some hard questions, do some digin. Maybe you will find out something I did not. It would be nice to see the ZMI brakes track and street proven for NSX's.
Calling is not going to make them track proven.
zmibrakes said:
As far as the look, it is purely function.
So, the IRL system looks much the same? How does it differ as far as thickness? How does the intermetallic coating differ, if any? What other materials, if any, comprise the titanium compound?

Does the Rahal team still use the system? Have they endorsed the product? If so, are they compensated? Have any other teams joined in using the system? Other race teams outside IRL?

If the system is:
From zmibrakes.com
Each system is engineered specifically to your vehicle for maximum performance.
How so? Was an NSX used in testing? How is the porportioning achieved?
 
ZMI, you may want to contact the Rahal team, on their website they list the brakes for each of the types of cars then run:
IRL Dallara car AP brakes
Cart Lola car Brembo brakes
Atlantic car Brembos

Here is a good site for info on brake terminology
Brake term glossary

Titanium: A very light, very strong metal will very low thermal conductivity. Almost universally used to make caliper pistons for racing applications in order to reduce heat transfer to the fluid within the caliper.
 
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Great questions...

Yes, the racing brakes do look the same and coatings are the same as well as the thickness.

We use a pure titanium rotor.. .no berillium, aluminum or ceramics. Nothing to compromise the strength of the ti.

Bottom line: yes, they work. no, this isn't marketing bs. no, they are not for everyone. Our whole premise behind these are based on improving braking but not by taking away from the other aspects of driving. With the lightweight, we can improve upon these aspects of acceleration and handling. Yes, these are revolutionary and I understand that some people don't want to believe that they do actually work. I'm happy to say that after years of R&D and testing, that, yes, they really do.
 
zmibrakes,
You didn't answer the question about why the Rahal team lists brakes other than yours, contrary to your earlier claim. Inquiring minds want to know.
 
zmibrakes,

I’m extremely pleased to see you participating here. I have not called you personally but a couple people who did asked many of the same questions and forwarded the info to me. Based on that I was planning to take time out this afternoon and give you a ring, but I’ll wait a bit longer now and ask questions publicly so all can benefit from the answers.

The more I hear the more I like, but as everyone knows, talk is cheap so please don’t be offended by a bunch of pushy questions. I’d echo all of those already asked above that have not yet been answered and will think up some more when I have a chance, but for now I’ll just as about references.

What I did do the other day was a quick Google search and was surprised to find almost nothing about ZMI or it’s brakes. Not that it proves anything, but I did expect to see more chatter about them if there were a bunch of guys using them on the track already, even if just for informal events. The one press release was quite recent and made me thing that these were just introduced yet you speak of years of experience. Is your company a subsidiary or spin-off of one that is known for Ti brakes?

Although many (most) amateur racers are on a tight budget, when something comes along that really works and reduces unsprung weight they tend to dig a bit deeper. Are there any SCCA racers running these yet? Any other racers?

In other words, where can we find happy customers?

I still don’t like the shiny calipers, can they be coated?

More questions to follow, but work beckons…

BTW, you will sell a lot of these if they meet expectations and fit into smaller wheels than the poplar options.
 
NKB... agreements and other stuff don't allow me to really go deep into everything about that. sorry.

With regards to why you haven't heard about ZMI before is that you are correct we new to the retail street market. These titanium rotors have stayed underground until we were fully prepared and 110% proof positive that they will do what we claim. Why won't you read about us? Most racers I know don't readily give out their winning secrets.

I'd be happy to personally give you some people that run our stuff however not for public viewing. I don't feel that is fair for those people to have their names posted here without their knowledge.

As far as the shiny calipers go... that's how they come.

Thank you for your interest.
 


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