Saw someone get taken to the cleaners at a Toyota dealership today

[djdrock]

I had my 93 MR2 in for service at a Toyota dealership today, and a gentleman was waiting on his car as well. The service advisor came in and said to him "The reason your car is idling and accelerating roughly is that it needs a new mass air-flow sensor." He then continues his rant with what it does etc...The bill...$313.

After he leaves I said the the customer "you drive a Celica, right?" He says yeah. An educated guess I say. I continue to say that I had a 2000 MR2 Spyder that acted as your Celica does, and he is right it is the MAF, but it does not need replacing. What you need to do is get a philips head screwdriver, remove the MAF, and get some carb cleaner, gently spray it a few times, and the black gunk on the sensors will dissapear. This should take you 10 minutes tops as it did me. Anyways, he was embarassed to go to the service advisor, and I said I don't give a crap that I told you what it is, they are trying to screw you. Anyways, he gets it done. 2 hours labor plus parts. $313.

What kills me is that the dealership charges unsuspecting people outrageous prices for parts and labor, especially in instances when a part like this is swapped out in a matter of minutes.

 

[comquat1]

Before I knew anything about cars I got taken on my Jetta brakes. I had a friend who was a salesguy there that was floored when I told him what I paid. He went to bat for me with the head of the service dept but didn't get anything out of him. He then worked to have one of the mechanics there do jobs on the side for me. Good friend....:smile:

 

[nchopp]

Actually, MAFs CAN go bad, and do. Cleaning is usually only a temporary solution. The connectors sometimes go bad, too.

 

[EIFFEL]

I had my 93 MR2 in for service at a Toyota dealership today, and a gentleman was waiting on his car as well. The service advisor came in and said to him "The reason your car is idling and accelerating roughly is that it needs a new mass air-flow sensor." He then continues his rant with what it does etc...The bill...$313.

After he leaves I said the the customer "you drive a Celica, right?" He says yeah. An educated guess I say. I continue to say that I had a 2000 MR2 Spyder that acted as your Celica does, and he is right it is the MAF, but it does not need replacing. What you need to do is get a philips head screwdriver, remove the MAF, and get some carb cleaner, gently spray it a few times, and the black gunk on the sensors will dissapear. This should take you 10 minutes tops as it did me. Anyways, he was embarassed to go to the service advisor, and I said I don't give a crap that I told you what it is, they are trying to screw you. Anyways, he gets it done. 2 hours labor plus parts. $313.

What kills me is that the dealership charges unsuspecting people outrageous prices for parts and labor, especially in instances when a part like this is swapped out in a matter of minutes.

If you know so much about the car, what are you doing at the Toyota dealership? Why don't you work on your own car? Did you check out his car? Or you just made a "educated guess"? May I ask you where you got your "education" to form this " educated guess"? Sometimes the person who actually diagnose the car may be right? You "guess" may or may not fix the car. But replacing the sensor probably will, if not then the dealer will have to deal with it. Why are you going to this dealership if you know "that the dealership charges unsuspecting people outrageous prices for parts and labor, especially in instances when a part like this is swapped out in a matter of minutes"

 

[djdrock]

If you know so much about the car, what are you doing at the Toyota dealership? Why don't you work on your own car? Did you check out his car? Or you just made a "educated guess"? May I ask you where you got your "education" to form this " educated guess"? Sometimes the person who actually diagnose the car may be right? You "guess" may or may not fix the car. But replacing the sensor probably will, if not then the dealer will have to deal with it. Why are you going to this dealership if you know "that the dealership charges unsuspecting people outrageous prices for parts and labor, especially in instances when a part like this is swapped out in a matter of minutes"

Yep, I knew it was a matter of a couple of posts before I got some heat for this, and mostly in an immature manner. And dude, you need to chill out. Wow! First, I am not able to align a car, which is why I was there. But this is not the point. I got this educated guess from 5 years owning a car with an identical engine and 5 years of posting on a forum where hundreds of owners had the same problem, and the same fix. I can not recall one instance where a person had to replace the MAF, but only needed to clean it. It is not to say that is is not possible, but I simply offered my "educated guess" to a patron who paid way too much for a simple repair. Even if it did need replacing, it is not 2 hours. No way. I could swap mine in and out in 10 minutes or less. I don't assume that going to a dealership is going to get everyone screwed all the time. I am saying that having a little car knowledge and can save someone, like myself, plenty of money in instances where it can be avoided. This patron had the option of getting a second opinion, aside from me, instead of dropping $313 without even questioning the service advisor. This is exactly what the advisors are hoping for.

 

[zahntech]

If you know so much about the car, what are you doing at the Toyota dealership? Why don't you work on your own car? Did you check out his car? Or you just made a "educated guess"? May I ask you where you got your "education" to form this " educated guess"? Sometimes the person who actually diagnose the car may be right? You "guess" may or may not fix the car. But replacing the sensor probably will, if not then the dealer will have to deal with it. Why are you going to this dealership if you know "that the dealership charges unsuspecting people outrageous prices for parts and labor, especially in instances when a part like this is swapped out in a matter of minutes"

Ouch!!...Totally owned!!......

Mass Air Flow sensors fail all the time esp the hot wire type you are referring to..cleaning them can have varying levels of effect..the dealer Is not interested in this guy coming back in 2 weeks with similar symptoms because his sensor is just no good...

Dealers are not in the trial and error business (at least the good ones) I have seen things on this site where people take ...door lock cyl sensors apart and "clean" them because the alarm goes off when they open their door..
that's ok for a "Do It Yourself" guy but a Dealer or even an independent cannot warranty such a repair because they have no idea how long the fix will last....

You should open your own shop!!....you can call it ...."Hey let's try this and see how it works auto repair"

 

[djdrock]

You should open your own shop!!....you can call it ...."Hey let's try this and see how it works auto repair"

This might be better than what some shops are doing. I think I will take your advice! We all know that car repair places (ie dealerships) are notorious for their honesty all the time. :biggrin:

Is it a full moon out?

 

[zahntech]

. Even if it did need replacing, it is not 2 hours. No way. I could swap mine in and out in 10 minutes or less.

dropping $313 without even questioning the service advisor. This is exactly what the advisors are hoping for.

Did you see his receipt...do you know that the 2 hrs did not include the Diag time?

313$ for a Mass Air flow sensor is relatively cheep...that's less than just the part for most Japanese cars...

You are more DIY than most people .....that guy prolly wouldn't even know where to find the Mass Air Flow sensor or how to remove it without breaking it, the 313$ was prolly a good deal for him to be able to drive away and not have to worry about it and have a warranty.

 

[djdrock]

Did you see his receipt...do you know that the 2 hrs did not include the Diag time?

313$ for a Mass Air flow sensor is relatively cheep...that's less than just the part for most Japanese cars...

You are more DIY than most people .....that guy prolly wouldn't even know where to find the Mass Air Flow sensor or how to remove it without breaking it, the 313$ was prolly a good deal for him to be able to drive away and not have to worry about it and have a warranty.

Yep, saw it the receipt. They told him $313 and then he came in to the waiting room after he paid with it to show me, almost in disbelief. I can say this...I was at the dealership a little over an hour and he was came in after me and left before me. Either way, he is back on the road...pocketbook may be a little lighter, but, back on the road.

 

[NsXMas]

There was a show on Mark Salem's weekly auto show about this. Basically, as long as the dealer charged a fair price, and fixed the problem, there's nothing wrong with it.

It is the buyer's fault for not trying remedies that may be available to him. But this does not mean the dealer ripped him off.

 

[djdrock]

There was a show on Mark Salem's weekly auto show about this. Basically, as long as the dealer charged a fair price, and fixed the problem, there's nothing wrong with it.

It is the buyer's fault for not trying remedies that may be available to him. But this does not mean the dealer ripped him off.

Exactly! Hey, the Toyota dealership has always been fair with me. And for that matter, the Acura dealership has always been square with me as well. No compaints.

 

[zahntech]

Yep, saw it the receipt. They told him $313 and then he came in to the waiting room after he paid with it to show me, almost in disbelief. I can say this...I was at the dealership a little over an hour and he was came in after me and left before me. Either way, he is back on the road...pocketbook may be a little lighter, but, back on the road.

so it did include the Diag time!! people like you really piss me off ..DIAGNOSIS COSTS MONEY the time of the tech to figure out your problem is NOT FREE..If you go to the doctor and say my _____ hurts, is he going to figure it out for free?/???...HELL NO...

this guy with the Toyota could have had a bad plug wire or Ign coil,low compression in one cyl...the list goes on and on....the dealer could have asked him for hours and hours to check everything out but Instead the tech has prolly seen this symptom before and went right to checking the Mass Air Flow sensor....thus saving the Customer a lot of Diag money...oh but I forgot ..you don't believe in paying for Diag time

That's what I do all day long ....find the solution to problems other Knuckledragging meatheads in the auto repair industry can't figure out..and I Expect to be paid for It!!

Today I had a Honda Odyssey van that When you use the left turn signal it would flash until you turn on the headlamps then the turn signal would just stay on...then if you turned the signal to the right it would flash the right and the left would stay on!!..after two weeks of use it would blow the fuse....where would you start on that one? smart guy




Having a toyota tech that knows your car look at it for a rough run problem....1.5hrs labor

the toyota tech replacing the sensor he found bad,, .5 hrs labor + parts

Knowing that your car will run well tomorrow and you don't have to worry about it anymore????/....PRICELESS!!

 

[djdrock]

so it did include the Diag time!! people like you really piss me off ..DIAGNOSIS COSTS MONEY the time of the tech to figure out your problem is NOT FREE..If you go to the doctor and say my _____ hurts, is he going to figure it out for free?/???...HELL NO...

this guy with the Toyota could have had a bad plug wire or Ign coil,low compression in one cyl...the list goes on and on....the dealer could have asked him for hours and hours to check everything out but Instead the tech has prolly seen this symptom before and went right to checking the Mass Air Flow sensor....thus saving the Customer a lot of Diag money...oh but I forgot ..you don't believe in paying for Diag time

That's what I do all day long ....find the solution to problems other Knuckledragging meatheads in the auto repair industry can't figure out..and I Expect to be paid for It!!

Today I had a Honda Odyssey van that When you use the left turn signal it would flash until you turn on the headlamps then the turn signal would just
the toyota tech replacing the sensor he found bad,, .5 hrs labor + parts
stay on...then if you turned the signal to the right it would flash the right and the left would stay on!!..after two weeks of use it would blow the fuse....where would you start on that one? smart guy




Having a toyota tech that knows your car look at it for a rough run problem....1.5hrs labor

Knowing that your car will run well tomorrow and you don't have to worry about it anymore????/....PRICELESS!!

Jesus man, you need to fucking chill out. I am trying to maintain a civil tone, but, can you read? I answered your question, he was in there less than I was, lets say about 45 minutes or so. I see no need to bash the hell out of me. What a smartass.

Where did I say that I don't believe in paying for diag time? The guy was in and out of there, and paid too much in labor. It is as simple as that.

 

[NsXMas]

let's all take a chill pill and relax. No need to get all bent over this.

 

[zahntech]

he was in there less than I was, lets say about 45 minutes or so. .

you obviously don't understand the FLAT RATE system.

When a car comes in for "Rough run" they more than likely have a 1.5 hr min charge....

then they look up in a book that says .5 hrs to replace Mass Air Flow sensor.

some techs may use all 2 hours some may not, but this keeps pricing stable.


I have had cars that I spent 20 and 30 hrs Diagnosing..do you think that when a tech gets a car like that he gets 30 hrs in Diag pay??/no not a chance...you win some you loose some..

 

[djdrock]

you obviously don't understand the FLAT RATE system.

When a car comes in for "Rough run" they more than likely have a 1.5 hr min charge....

then they look up in a book that says .5 hrs to replace Mass Air Flow sensor.

some techs may use all 2 hours some may not, but this keeps pricing stable.

Let's just be honest here. I understand you are trying to defend your job, and I appreciate that. I work in banking, and if I am being honest, this industry is not ran buy a bunch of priests and nuns. There are rules, I know. And if the book says one thing, then so be it. But your industry, like mine, is is about as fun for people as getting a root canal. My best friends brother used to work for a Chevy dealership, and he used to laugh at how when people brought their own oil in (ie...Mobile 1 synthetic) they would just keep it for themselves and put Valvoline in the customers car. This is not reflective of all dealerships I know. Nor should I be bashed all to hell for making an observation, one I still believe is correct, and stating it.

 

[zahntech]

My best friends brother used to work for a Chevy dealership, and he used to laugh at how when people brought their own oil in (ie...Mobile 1 synthetic) they would just keep it for themselves and put Valvoline in the customers car. .

If this happend where I work that tech would be fired on the spot.

lets talk about banking ...how about the 3k in Escrow fees I paid on my house.....did they have 40 people working for a week straight to put my paperwork together? I don't think so..

 

[EIFFEL]

djdrock, I did not mean any hositility in my reply, and zahntech's feeling is very nature for a experienced tech. Like zahntech mentioned, a simple repair only seem simple because the techs' vast experience. The best techs make any repair look easy. The diagnosis time is hard for most people to understand, let alone pay for it, but a DIY'er like you will always be relectant to pay because you think if xxx act like yyy, and zzz fixes yyy, then xxx will always be fixed by zzz. This mentality is the worst trait for any technician,but it is human nature. Most experience techs like zahntech and myself were like that in our younger and dumber days, As we get older and wiser; we learn to keep an open mind to auto repairs. I hope you realize that the alignment you had done can be completed in under 20 min. and it is not a rip-off to you.

 

[djdrock]

If this happend where I work that tech would be fired on the spot.

Agreed!

Tomorrow is my birthday by the way. :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: Weather permitting, the NSX is going out for a spin! woo woo!

 

[djdrock]

lets talk about banking ...how about the 3k in Escrow fees I paid on my house.....did they have 40 people working for a week straight to put my paperwork together? I don't think so..

First, I am not in mortgage, but 3k in fees is high for closing costs on a mortgage. Assuming you have good credit, that sounds unreasonable. But then again, I don't know the market in Seatle. I could tell you things about banking that would make your head spin. I will put it this way...banks LOVE people who have limited or no financial knowledge.

djdrock, I did not mean any hositility in my reply, and zahntech's feeling is very nature for a experienced tech.

No problem.

 

[zahntech]

Agreed!

Tomorrow is my birthday by the way. :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: Weather permitting, the NSX is going out for a spin! woo woo!

Happy birthday and have a nice drive..

I'm still wondering where my escrow "Fees" went :frown:

 

[djdrock]

Happy birthday and have a nice drive..

I'm still wondering where my escrow "Fees" went :frown:

Thanks...supposed to be in the 50's here I think.

Your fees went into the pocketbooks of the many many bankers at your bank that are millionaires. BTW...I make a 5 figure salary...I am not guilty! :biggrin: :biggrin:

 

[steveny]

Today I had a Honda Odyssey van that When you use the left turn signal it would flash until you turn on the headlamps then the turn signal would just stay on...then if you turned the signal to the right it would flash the right and the left would stay on!!..after two weeks of use it would blow the fuse....where would you start on that one? smart guy

I would start and finish with a match.:wink: :biggrin:
$313 is a lot of money if you don't need to pay it. A can of carb cleaner costs 5 bucks. This leaves $308 dollars for a really nice meal out. I always deduce things down to how much good food can I buy with the money I save.:biggrin:

 

[zahntech]

$313 is a lot of money if you don't need to pay it. A can of carb cleaner costs 5 bucks. This leaves $308 dollars for a really nice meal out. I always deduce things down to how much good food can I buy with the money I save.:biggrin:

you may be able to clean your Mass Air Flow sensor with some cleaner ...but most people would sooner attempt open heart surgery than try to take their car apart and try to fix it...also most carb cleaners contain solvents that melt plastic and ruin your Mass air flow sensor....guess what? your getting a new one anyway!!!...cleaning should be done with less caustic brake cleaner.


djdrock,,Sorry I bit into you so hard but for the last 3 weeks I have been doing non stop Diag of cars that have made many techs before me break into tears...so the whole Diag thing is close to home right now.....Sorry:frown:

The Honda Van with the crazy turn signals???

After some looking inside and out of the car and studying wire harnesses to see what all this has in common? I find that the problem isn't even shown on the honda wire diagram because it was caused by an aftermarket trailer wiring controller/harness sitting in a clump of mud inside the rear bumper skin:frown: ....oh well on to the next..

 

[MiamiMermaid]

What kills me is that the dealership charges unsuspecting people outrageous prices for parts and labor, especially in instances when a part like this is swapped out in a matter of minutes.

Yup! ThaNSX* to Many of You on Prime, Mermi'z learned a lot, and it's Hilarious to see the service guy take a step back and say ..... "uuh, you know, that is a possibility... let me take a relook .... "

This site Rocks! * ThaNSX* y'all !