S.Drive vs. F1 GS-D3 Comparo Test!

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When I first got my NSX, I thought I was going to have to buy new tires. The Goodyear F1 GS-D3 tires are a perennial favorite for Prime members, but I was intrigued about Yokohama’s new S.Drive line as well. Using the data provided from Tire Rack’s tests, I decided to compare the two lines to determine what tire is best for me. The first thing to do when deciding to buy any tire is to determine what the driving conditions will be. For me, my NSX likely will only see 1-5 track days per year. The rest will be done on the local roads of Long Island and on the highways to NSX events. I’d love to hit the track more, but working 65 hours a week just doesn’t leave much room for track time. :( Moreover, Long Island is prone to sudden and often severe rain storms during the summer, and the decrepit infrastructure means that the roads often cannot drain water quickly enough to keep up. Thus, hydroplaning conditions abound.

With this in mind, I know that my NSX needs tires with good road manners in terms of noise and wear, excellent wet performance and which are competent/safe (but not dominant) on the track. Incidentally, thanks to CarCrazed4Life, I ended up with nearly new AVS ES100 rubber, so the comparison ultimately was not needed. But, in order to help others with their decision, it is below. I did learn that just because a tire company puts a product in a certain category at a certain price point does not necessarily mean that other tires at other price points will be worse performers.

THE TEST

Slalom (Dry)

S.Drive 4.12 sec
F1 GS-D3 4.18 sec

Slalom (Wet)

S.Drive 4.44 sec
F1 GS-D3 4.49 sec

I was a bit surprised at these results, considering the price and marketing position of the Goodyears. In the dry, the Yokohama was 0.06 seconds, or 1.5%, faster than the Goodyears. The wet run was virtually identical, yielding a 0.05 second advantage for the S.Drive.

Next were the lap times on TireRack’s dedicated test track. This more than anything is the best measure of a tire’s overall performance characteristics because it puts the tire through the entire range of driving conditions in real time and all at once. Given the unexpected slalom results, I was quite curious.

Test Lap (Dry)

S.Drive 29.98 sec
F1 GS-D3 30.24 sec

Test Lap (Wet)

S.Drive 31.46 sec
F1 GS-D3 31.96 sec

Once again, the cheaper S.Drive is faster than the Goodyear. In the dry, the Yokohamas edged it out by 0.26 seconds, or 0.9%. But the wet times are even more telling. There, the S.Drive was a full half second faster than the F1 GS-D3, or 1.6%. This may not sound like much, but consider this. Extrapolating this data to a hypothetical wet road course with an average lap time of 2 minutes on the S.Drive, the same car with the Goodyears would cross the finish line almost 2 seconds later. The S.Drive’s dry lap time is astounding, considering that Yokohama’s flagship super tire, the Advan Neova AD07, lapped the same course in 29.64 seconds, just 1.1% faster than the S.Drive.

At this point, I was quite perplexed. Why on earth was Goodyear charging so much for these tires? Next up was braking.

Brake Distance 50-0 mph (Dry)

S.Drive 86.3 ft
F1 GS-D3 80.0 ft

Brake Distance 50-0 mph (Wet)

S.Drive 98.4 ft
F1 GS-D3 98.6 ft

Finally, some more reasonable results…sort of. In the dry, the Goodyears are clearly superior, stopping over 6 feet shorter than the Yokohamas, or 7.8%, which is the largest margin of all the tests. But, the wet track appears once again to nullify the F1’s edge. There, the performance margin between the two tires is a miniscule 0.2%, with the S.Drive actually stopping shorter than the Goodyear!

The final comparison was average lateral G on the skidpad. This is a great test for validating the other tests because it measures a tire’s maximum lateral grip in a fairly closed setting.

Corner G (Dry)

S.Drive 0.96 G
F1 GS-D3 0.94 G

Corner G (Wet)

S.Drive 0.86 G
F1 GS-D3 0.86 G

Looking at the above numbers, we can see why the S.Drive did so well in the other tests – it has more available dry grip than the Goodyear. The wet grip between the two is identical, though given the other results I expected to see a higher number for the S.Drive.

Taking these relatively objective results into account, it is important to compare them to the subjective ratings of the drivers who use them. Thankfully, Tire Rack provides user surveys to this end. I primarily was concerned with three data points – dry traction, wet traction and tread life:

S.Drive (~250,000 miles tested)

Dry Traction 8.8
Wet Traction 8.4
Treadwear 8.6

F1 GS-D3 (~21,000,000 miles tested)

Dry Traction 9.2
Wet Traction 9.1
Treadwear 7.6

According to the collective “butt dynos” of drivers, the Goodyears clearly have an advantage, though the Yokohamas appear to last longer. The problem with these subjective ratings to keep in mind however is that there are so many variables that it is difficult to determine how the numbers were derived. After all, each driver’s perception is different. What feels grippy to one may feel unstable to another. Also, the type of car used can have an enormous impact. After all, the opinions of minivan drivers commuting to and from the office are combined with those driving Ferraris on dedicated race courses. Deriving any meaningful information under such circumstances is difficult.

By contrast, through using the same car on the same track under identical conditions, TireRack’s tests provide what is in my opinion a more solid basis for comparison. Still, there are some caveats even with these tests. First, while the test car is always a BMW 3 series, the model year does change. Here, the Goodyears were tested on a 2006 and the Yokohamas on a 2008. Thus, improvements to the vehicle’s handling characteristics/available power could account for some of the discrepancies.

Second, we don’t know if they use the same driver for every test. Driver skill varies, so lap times even with the same vehicle can differ between drivers. Finally, these tests do not cover the tire over its life cycle. Basically, all they tell you is the performance of the tire in brand new condition. The results could be totally different after 10,000 miles or half a day at the track. Perhaps it is here that the premium-priced products like the F1 GS-D3 really justify their extra cost, though we’ll never know for sure. It would be interesting if TireRack ran a follow-up test at the 10,000 mile mark.

Finally, it is also possible that the Goodyears are simply older technology. They have been around since at least 2003 and the performance discrepancies may simply be the result of 5 extra years of development on the part of Yokohama. Indeed, it is interesting to note that the Goodyear F1 Asymmetric, which is Goodyear’s newest max performance design, beats the S.Drive in every category.

Conclusions

Based on my research and based on my anticipated needs, I will go with the Yokohama S.Drive for my next set of tires. The S.Drive equals or beats the Goodyear in every objective category except dry braking, and does so at nearly a 25% price discount. Incidentally, after having my AVS ES100 (the S.Drive predecessor) for a few months, I can say they are pretty good. I got caught in a monsoon rain storm once and the tires felt confident and in control, even at highway speeds. Dry grip is good and the tires are very linear in response and communicative. My only complaint is road noise, which I think comes mostly from the aggressive uni-directional tread. If the S.Drives are an update to the ES100, it bodes well I think.
 
The AVS ES100 was the biggest POS tire I ever owned. It was cheaply priced when it came out and priced cheap for a reason. I would never try an update of that tire, evar !!! IMHO

The S.Drive equals or beats the Goodyear in every objective category except dry braking Isn't that the MOST important of all????

BTW, My F1 GS-D3 will be replaced with F1 GS-D3
 
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I was a fan of the Goodyears until I tracked them.... they have decent grip levels but they felt awful on the track.

My biggest complaint with them is they have a soft sidewall so the car yaws and then sets, this makes the car feel very sloppy.

I pushed them very hard all day and even spun off a high speed turn (115mph - end of the video). I run Toyo R888 on my track wheels and will replace the Goodyears with something else for the street. After spending the day on the track with the Goodyears, I will never buy them again.

<object width="441" height="248"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=1734154&server=vimeo.com&show_title=0&show_byline=0&show_portrait=0&color=00ADEF&fullscreen=1" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=1734154&server=vimeo.com&show_title=0&show_byline=0&show_portrait=0&color=00ADEF&fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="441" height="248"></embed></object><br /><a href="http://vimeo.com/1734154">My first spin</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user590863">CL65 Captain</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.
 
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^ Nice driving Cap'n. I noticed that you keep your thumbs on top of the steering wheel. You know you'll break them pretty good god forbid you hit anything head on and then you won't be able to smoke the roach.
 
^ Nice driving Cap'n. I noticed that you keep your thumbs on top of the steering wheel. You know you'll break them pretty good god forbid you hit anything head on and then you won't be able to smoke the roach.

I agree! Looks like you had fun. The roach comment is funny and true :smile:
 
^ Nice driving Cap'n. I noticed that you keep your thumbs on top of the steering wheel. You know you'll break them pretty good god forbid you hit anything head on and then you won't be able to smoke the roach.

That's funny, because I have to consciously work to keep them on the wheel and not wrapped around the inside gripping the wheel. I had a driving instructor at Bondurant years ago (Price Cobb) who kept beating on me that if I had them wrapped around the wheel and if I hit something or spun, the wheel would spin around and rip my thumbs right off. :frown:
 
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The AVS ES100 was the biggest POS tire I ever owned. It was cheaply priced when it came out and priced cheap for a reason. I would never try an update of that tire, evar !!! IMHO

The S.Drive equals or beats the Goodyear in every objective category except dry braking Isn't that the MOST important of all????

BTW, My F1 GS-D3 will be replaced with F1 GS-D3

Wow. What was your experience with the tire? Was it nervous, unstable, etc? All I can say is that my own experience has not been anything close to "POS". It is not the stickiest tire in the world, but once warmed up, I've found the grip is adequate for most spirited driving situations. Turn-in is very crisp and responsive- I don't feel much of a soft "roll-over" into the turn. Once the tires set a line they grip and have a nice, progressive feel as I approach the limit. I guess a problem is the noise- they get really loud near the edge of lateral grip, but it doesn't really bother me.

I must say I was VERY impressed with the wet performance of the tire. No matter the buckets of rain pouring down, at no time did these tires ever feel like the contact patch was separating from the road surface. Similarly, threshold braking gives a fairly confident feel- they don't slide or squeal or anything, they just grip and stop.

Of course, below 40 degrees, performance goes way down and they feel like, well, cold tires, but I'm happy with them so far. Maybe once they wear they will get worse? Also, I have 215/40/17 and 275/40/17. Maybe that has something to do with it, i.e., works well with my suspension setup? I'd like to try them up at Lime Rock this summer. Maybe they will suck there, but so far I can't really say too many bad things about the ES100. The S.Drive is supposed to improve on them by 20% in every category...
 
It was when they first came out and pricing was cheap. They felt wiggly (unstable until they were planted) and wore out very, very weird. Inside was OK and at an inch in they were going bald :mad: The fronts were bizzare wear pattern also. Got load after about 5k and wore out in about 14k, which was way after I should have replaced them (beyond the wear bars)
Switched to Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires and my great handling car was back (this was not the NSX). I have F1 GS-D3 on my NSX

Wow. What was your experience with the tire? Was it nervous, unstable, etc? All I can say is that my own experience has not been anything close to "POS". It is not the stickiest tire in the world, but once warmed up, I've found the grip is adequate for most spirited driving situations. Turn-in is very crisp and responsive- I don't feel much of a soft "roll-over" into the turn. Once the tires set a line they grip and have a nice, progressive feel as I approach the limit. I guess a problem is the noise- they get really loud near the edge of lateral grip, but it doesn't really bother me.

I must say I was VERY impressed with the wet performance of the tire. No matter the buckets of rain pouring down, at no time did these tires ever feel like the contact patch was separating from the road surface. Similarly, threshold braking gives a fairly confident feel- they don't slide or squeal or anything, they just grip and stop.

Of course, below 40 degrees, performance goes way down and they feel like, well, cold tires, but I'm happy with them so far. Maybe once they wear they will get worse? Also, I have 215/40/17 and 275/40/17. Maybe that has something to do with it, i.e., works well with my suspension setup? I'd like to try them up at Lime Rock this summer. Maybe they will suck there, but so far I can't really say too many bad things about the ES100. The S.Drive is supposed to improve on them by 20% in every category...
 
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Man, what a lousy experience. My ES100's don't feel wiggly at all. The word I'd use is linear and/or predictable. I'm running 36 front 40 rear and they transition very smoothly into their line. I get some tramlining when on grooves, but that's just a factor of the tread pattern. I've put about 500 miles on them, so maybe it will get worse over the summer? I'll report back after a season of track time and higher temps.

Still, based on Tire Rack's test results, I think the S.Drive is an option worth considering if you need a good daily driver tire that is adequate for the track. In my case, if I heavily tracked my NSX, I would get a set of 91 rims and run R-compounds or Azeni 615's.
 
relative to OEM/stock tires...

Honcho, have you ever run your NSX w/ brand-new/near-new OEM/stock tires (ie. Yokohama Advan A0220H, Dunlop SP 8050 , Bridgestone Potenza RE010, Bridgestone Potenza RE040) or other current and/or recent OEM/stock equivalent tires (ie. Goodyear Eagle F1 GS D3, Birdgestone Potenza S03, Bridgestone Potenza RE050A Pole Position, Michelin PS2, Yokohama Advan Neova AD07, Dunlop SP Sport Maxx, Continental ContiSportContact3, etc')?

(I'm lookin' for a baseline to see where your 'experience' w/ the S.Drive's stands, as it's obvious your assessment/observations have to be relative to something)

The Yokohama AVS ES100 tires offered a fraction of the performance of the aforementioned max' performance summer-tires. That is undeniable/unarguable/irrefutable. I owned (2) sets of the ES100 & they were noticeably long(er) lasting, better performing in the wet, and significantly less expensive... relative to all the aforementioned tires. In addition, they gripped A LOT less than the above listed tires & resultingly [sic] accel'/cornering/turn'in-response/braking were all uninspiring comparatively.

I can not even comprehend anyone using the ES100's or their successor, namely the S. Drive's, at the track (other than as a parade lap)! Was that seriously a joke? Please say, "haha!" because I'm kinda/sorted cringing here.

Also, FWIW, I'd say the Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3's wet-grip is nearly identical to the ES100's while offering exponential better dry-performance in NSX applications. And that's the key-word: NSX applications. What one tire does in a 'test' on a different make/model should be observed w/ some hesitancy from afar. That's why it's always bests to seek the experience of others who have actual real-life/real-time experience when considering tires for the NSX. Yes, we drive a damn weird/finicky car!

If you're so enthralled by the S.Drive's, trust me- you'd be floored if not gob-smacked by a real max' performance summer-tire that does justice to the NSX platform in terms of handling/performance/balance. . .

For someone on a budget who does a lot of highway-driving/commuting in all potential weather-conditions (ie. wet/slick) while in blase` mode (ie. "mental cruise-control"), racking up significant mileage, and aren't overly keen on the razor/scalpal-like feel & rail-like handling potential of the NSX, then but of-course the ES100/S.Drive offerings make total sense.

However, there is absolutely no comparison between the ES100/S.Drive & other dedicated max' performance summer-tires for truly appreciating what the NSX is all about.
 
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Just to qualify, I have ES100's not S.Drives on my NSX. I'm not saying they are the best tire ever for the NSX, or even at the top of the heap. Instead, I'm giving my personal observation of the tire on the NSX, which so far has been adequate.

I agree with you about the wet performance. They are very good for that, even at highway speeds. But, I'm a little perplexed about your dry grip observations. I think I have to drive an NSX with the top-tier rubber on it because I found the ES100's to be very good once they get warmed up. As I mentioned before, I haven't tracked the car yet, so maybe that is where these tires will fail to impress. But, on twisting mountain roads at between 50-110mph, they inspired nothing but confidence. Never once did I feel like the turn-in response was sluggish or unpredictable, nor did the tires ever feel nervous or like they were about to suddenly break traction. My little mountain drive was the most fun I think I've had with a car, and I'd definitely use the word "scalpel" to describe the NSX in that context- it carved up those twisties like it was born for it! :D. I can't wait to get on the track with this thing. Though I am not a race car driver and I doubt my skill level is high enough to really benefit from the difference between an ES100 and a GS-D3. There is no way I'm running 10/10ths on the NSX without some serious instruction beforehand. Basically, I'm not good enough to take advantage of the extra grip. :) Before I drop over $1000 on super-awesome near R-compound tires, I'll put it toward a Skip Barber class, which incidentally is in my near future... :)

That said, I only have about 500 miles on the tires and I got them with about 95% tread. You went through two sets, so maybe they will get worse as they wear. Although, this whole conversation is academic with repect to the ES100, as it's been discontinued. :) I think there are some Prime members out there with S.Drives, so it would be great to hear their opinions after putting some miles on them.

Sadly though, the reality is that my NSX will be driven 90% on the street. I just can't think of anywhere in Nassau county or NYC where I could push the car hard enough to really need the benefit of ADVAN Neova or similar tires.

The point of the OP though was my surprise at the data. Like everyone else, I thought a high-level (and price) tire like the GS-D3 would crush the S.Drive in the test. The data didn't bear that out. I just posted it to get people's opinions and let them know.
 
oh bebe', just wait till...

Honcho, so from what I can ascertain from your post is that the ES100's are the only tires you've run on your NSX? Whoa man, you've been playin' w/ yourself then, and steppin' up to some 'real' tires (max' performance summer tires) will be like bein' w/ an actual woman! Sorry for the sordid analogy, but it's most applicable in this situation.

If you like your ES100's, then you will be floored by the max' performance summer tires available for the NSX (aforementioned in my previous post). And no, you don't need to spend ~$1k for those tires, especially in your sizes (you friggin' have 17/17 rims, lolz). And whereas the ES100's may give you 10k-15k miles of treadlife on the rears (obviously depending on driving-style & alignment-specs'/suspension-setup), the Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3 & Bridgestone Potenza RE050A Pole Position will also give ~10k miles on the rears, but providing tons more smiles-per-miles in terms of performance/handling. . .

I got my Bridgestone Potenza RE50A Pole Position's for my 17/17 rims for ~$650/shipped via Tirerack less than half a year ago. At the time, there was a $100 rebate-card promo' going on as well, dropping the final damage to ~$550. IMHO, these are just as good as the past OEM/stock tires, which were light-years better than the ES100's.

Lastly, no, driving the ES100's on-&-on didn't jade my view of them. They didn't get significantly noisier or lose noticeable amount of grip/traction as the miles piled on, in my experience. They had their ceiling/limitations from the start. My previous NSX came w/ the OEM/stock Yokohama A022H tires, and I went w/ the ES100's subsequently. It was like going from the Major Leagues to Double-A ball (not even Triple-A).

If you get a chance, drive a fellow NSX-owner's NSX w/ some max' performance summer tires (previously mentioned) or even the ultra high-performance near R-compound street tires (ie. Bridgestone RE01R, Falken Azenis RT-615, Kumho Ecsta XS, Yokohama ADVAN Sport, Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec)... unless you have budgetary limitations or like to drive like Mr. Sweetchuck (which I seriously doubt as you like the mountain runs & potential track HPDE outings, etc'), you'll see why I'm being so emphatic in this thread! :cool:
 
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Re: oh bebe', just wait till...

Honcho, so from what I can ascertain from your post is that the ES100's are the only tires you've run on your NSX? Whoa man, you've been playin' w/ yourself then, and steppin' up to some 'real' tires (max' performance summer tires) will be like bein' w/ an actual woman! Sorry for the sordid analogy, but it's most applicable in this situation.

Nicely put, Osiris. :D Yeah,I just got the car this fall, so I haven't had a chance to go through different sets of tires on the NSX yet. Hopefully I'll get a chance to drive some different tires this season on other NSX's. Having taken your advice to heart, I think I might go with Conti3's instead. They are a max performance tire and they weigh 3 pounds less than the Yoko's. That's a 12 lbs weight savings just by changing tires! :)
 
I just got a pair of s.drive put on my rear wheels on Friday. I almost slid right into another car going around a corner 3 blocks from the tire place on my way back to work. Apparently new tires are more slippery than old bald ones until you get them broken in. :frown: I'm really surprised the guys at the shop didn't warn me at all. I'm just glad/lucky I learned that lesson without totalling the car I'd only had for a week.

The only reason I went with those tires (I did read this thread prior) is that I have the ES100's on the front which I wasn't replacing so I wanted them to at least somewhat match. Oh and they're cheap. I'm hoping to get different wheels by the time these are worn out. :cool:

It'll be interesting to see how they drive after a couple hundred miles.
 
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