Rude Awakening tonight...

[Brian2by2]

I was at Rick Case Honda talkin to the NSX tech, Neil, tonight and we got to talking about the S2k, Int. Type R, and NSX. I asked how the 2k fairs against the NSX.

He said "The S2k and type R beat the NSX badly in the slalom but the NSX pulls hard on them in the straights."

I wasn't sooo shcoked about the S2k (grrrr) but the TYPE R??? come on guys, is it true??

I've got comptech springs, Toyo 275 (rear) 225 (front) tires and a front end stabilizer...can keep up with an S2k in turns yet?

 

[Xcite50]

What do I think?, WHATEVER. I don't think Honda would design a $25K integra and a $32K S2k to out perform an NSX in handling. Remember, the pride of an NSX is in it's handling, and to think that an Integra Type R or a S2k can out handle an NSX hmmmm. I've owned a Type R before my beloved NSX, and the Type R does not even come close to an NSX in handling let alone out right beat it. Maybe I did not know how to drive the Type R, but I gave it up for my beloved NSX: . If you up graded both the Type R and the S2k then I don't know, but I still doubt that they will beat an NSXrolleyes

 

[PHOEN$X]

Those are both front engine cars, and I doubt they handle anything like a mid-engine car such as the NSX. I haven't heard of any front engine cars other than a Skyline that comes close to the NSX in terms of handling.

 

[RyRy210]

There are quite a few members on this board who own both an S2000 and NSX, and what they say is more important to me than a Honda Mechanic (why would an NSX tech be doing at Rick Case Honda and not Rick Case Acura anyway?).

 

[SoCal-NSX]

Personal experience, check my avatar

It was my first track event (Buttonwillow) and I only had the NSX for about 2 months. There were 2 S200's there and they had both done many events each. They COULD catch me in the turns and I WOULD dust them (as in bye-bye) on the straits. When I let a pro that had NSX and other MR experience get behind the wheel and drive me around the track, he was 2x-3x faster or better.

So IMHO, equal drivers in both cars, NSX would win through out.

At the end of the day, I'd take the NSX over a 2K anyhoo!

Dave
PS: the event was their high-performance driving clinic because I had NO idea what I was doing - still learning and having fun!

 

[MostWanted]

type-r vs NSX

Before anybody gets their feelings hurt, I love the NSX more than anyone and feel that it is the best exotic car period. But don't underestimate it's little brother! Believe it- .92 lateral accel.
A properly driven type-r will hang with an NSX in the corners and won't be too far off in the straights. It won't be as easy or as fun but these cars do have an extremely stable platform. I have owned two with lots of track time and lots of horsepower. At only 25k they have loads of potential. Numbers don't lie. 14.4@95mph 2.1 60' bone stock........ On the NSX'S side- no car feels more stable or more forgiving than an NSX. It is simply put- refined. It is technology at its greatest. Just my opinion.

 

[cmarsh90]

I own a Type R, I used to own an S2000, my father owns a '91 NSX that I have a lot of seat time in.

At a recent track event I ran about 2 seconds slower per lap in the NSX than I usually do in my Type R, however my Type R has race tires on it, the NSX had stock yokos. That being said stock v. stock the Type R is pretty close to the NSX especially in the handling department, obviously the NSX has more HP. The S2K performs similarly to the Type R with a slight HP advantage.

The real key here I think is the suspension on each of these cars. The R has a pretty loose chassis (it's just a slightly re-enforced Integra chassis, a car that wasn't designed as a sports car), but has a real tight spring and shock combo, thus the suspension performs very well in corners but the overall feel is looser than the S2K or NSX, so turn in sucks but once you get in the corner it's very solid. The S2K and the NSX are opposite of that, they both have a very stiff chassis and softer suspension, so turn in is great and great steering feel, but they both feel less solid mid corner because of the softer suspension.

My experience in performance of these cars is that equal driver and stock trim on a roadcourse the NSX is fastest followed closely by the S2K followed really closely by the R.

With that being said I personally would rank the NSX as the most fun of the 3 to drive, with the S2K and ITR tied for second

Performance only means so much, if it's no fun getting there then who cares.

 

[Rubber Chicken]

Faster slalom speed does not necessarily mean better handling straight up.

If that were true, the $19,000 Mazda MP3 would be one of the best handling cars in the world.

Go check any road test, its a complete fluke, the car slaloms at 71+ mph in some tests. Even Modena's, Lotus', Murcielago's, NSX's can't match that slalom speed.

Its like saying the man who holds the world record for 100m dash is the world's best athlete.

Far from it, can he run a marathon? can he swim? can he high jump? can he throw a discus?

Slalom speed is just a slice of the pie. It shouldn't be taken as the end all of handling statistics. If anything it probably tells more about a car's ability to emergency lane change.

Also remember that the cones are placed at a relatively short distance apart and in a straight line. This is more of an autocross-type test than anything. What cars fare well in an autocross? well if you've ever seen them, Neon's, Miata's, MP3's all do better in general than cars like M3's, Supra's, Vipers...

M3's Supras, and Vipers are all more track cars (GT Cars), meant for maximizing downforce and tackling longer sweeping turns, rather than short jolts left and right like autox's are.

Main point though, slalom is just one test, as with anything take it with a grain of salt.

 

[NeoNSX]

Where's Ken? He'll know the facts + times.

 

[nsx1164]

I was at Rick Case Honda talkin to the NSX tech, Neil, tonight and we got to talking about the S2k, Int. Type R, and NSX. I asked how the 2k fairs against the NSX.

He said "The S2k and type R beat the NSX badly in the slalom but the NSX pulls hard on them in the straights."

Neil is a good guy -- he did some work on my NSX when I lived in So FL. They do a fair amount of mod work at that dealership, including IIRC a 350 hp 3.5L TL-S.

I'd take comments like that with a grain of salt. On a really TIGHT slalom course, the NSX gives something up compared to shorter-wheelbase cars, and suspension setup makes a world of difference, particularly once you go the aftermarket route.

I'd note that many "David vs Goliath" type tests tend to bias the test to favor the underdog, or at least neutralize some of the obvious (power/weight) inequity .... i.e., don't do a "momentum-car point-n-squirt lightweight vs big-dog-stump-puller" at Road America. Do them at Putnam or a small tight test course.

 

[Brian2by2]

well i made buddy buddy with a salesman there, and i'm going to go out and compare the S2k vs the NSX tomorrow most likely. I'll let him drive the S2k since he knows em (test driven them quite a few times every day) vs. me driving the NSX (i've done the whole racing school deal so i think i can drive O.K...)

I'll post results.

 

[RyRy210]

Where's Ken? He'll know the facts + times.

Ken also owns a Type R. I bet he'll give us an unbiased comparo of the 2.

Where are the other members that own an S2000 as well?

 

[nsx1164]

S2K guy there

well i made buddy buddy with a salesman there

Check with Paul Newman (asst service manager) -- he owns a silver S2K. Nice guy.

 

[nsxtasy]

Yes, I do own an Integra Type R, and it's set up similarly to my NSX (close to stock, with aftermarket pads and rotors, and A032R track tires).

In terms of sheer capabilities, there's no contest; the NSX blows the ITR away. I can't get anywhere close to the limits of the NSX. It beats the ITR for handling, acceleration, braking, you name it.

However, those who diss the ITR for its front wheel drive probably have never driven or ridden in an ITR on the track. I had Jeff B drive my ITR around Grattan last fall, and he was amazed at how neutral handling it is. He said you would never know it was fwd. And he's accustomed to the NSX (and he's a very fast driver, and very safe).

In terms of fun - heck, they're all fun. So many cars...

 

[Bilulan]

Honda Mechanic (why would an NSX tech be doing at Rick Case Honda and not Rick Case Acura anyway?).

I supply Rick and Rita Case with some of their business needs and when I called to ask who at their Plantation Acura Dealership was the most qualified NSX tech they had, they told me to go out to there new Honda Dealership and that Neil Miller was their best NSX tech and recently transferred out to that Honda site. I guess many of his NSX customers now take their cars out there. (I have yet to use him, but plan on making an appointment next week)

Seems like you have had good satisfaction with him Bryan???

 

[LJSB]

Brian2by2:
"I wasn't sooo shcoked about the S2k (grrrr) but the TYPE R??? come on guys, is it true??"

What if it was?
Do you like your car or not?
Do you need certification to justify your choice of car?
Chances are it would take you a few years of driving on a track to reach the full potential of your NSX even having done the "whole racing school deal."
There are no trophies in arm chair racing and this mechanic sounds like he may want to bring you down a peg or two for whatever reason.
If you let this stuff bother you, it may be you need a different car but forewarned no car is free from flapping lips.
What came of your wheel falling off? They pay up yet?

 

[docjohn]

I've got an 00 s2k and I'm quite comfortable stating that it is the better auto-x car and at the right track(i.e. tight off camber momentum tracks) it would also be more fun,with similar tires the times would be close.At long tracks the nsx is favored,again we are talking same tires and general mods.imo.

 

[Nimbus]

I have owned the NSX, S2000, and ITR and I have taken all three to the tracks. What nsxtasy stated is completely true. The ITR is the easiest to drive fast mainly due to it being FWD. Even an average driver can hop in and be confident tossing it around the tracks in a short time. The NSX on the other hand is slightly tricky to drive out of the three but is very rewarding once you master it. There is no doubt the NSX is the fastest on a road course if you have the skills to drive each at their potential.

pbassjo - nice straight forward comments.

 

[Da Hapa]

With due respect, I must say that I'm a little disappointed in how worked up some of you are getting about this.

The NSX is the much better car. Period. It's quicker, its faster and damn near any driver would be faster in an NSX on most road courses than either an S2K or ITR (same driver, different cars).

However, due in larger part to its greater weight and longer wheelbase, the NSX is not the ideal car for all situations. One such situation is the slalom. In this one particular instance, an S2K might be better (as would perhaps and ITR).

So what? As a proud S2000 owner, I'd still rather have an NSX and you guys that own them shouldn't be getting your panties in such a twist over it.

The S2000 is an amazing little front engine/rear wheel drive roadster but it isn't an NSX. And it shouln't be for the price point. The ITR was arguably one of the best, if not the best FWD sport coupes available in its day (and probably still better than most today) and not too far removed from a race car for the streets. But it aint an NSX either. And again, for its price point, it isn't meant to be.

The world is big enough for all types of cars and all types of drivers. Don't get so worked up because a Z06 is quicker, or a 911 brakes better or an S2K has slightly better speeds through a slalom.

I'll get off my soap box now.

 

[Brian2by2]

The Auto Shop has paid up in regards to fixing my wheel...tires? nope. Very pissed about it.

As far as Neil Miller: he's a good guy. Seems to know his stuff very well and comes highly recommended from ALOT of people. If you go, tell him Brian with the 91 on Harts recommended him And if you're NSXCA they give you a bit more than the 10% discount promised. Neil said its closer to 15-20% so thats cool.

Bout to do the 90k service there through him.

As far as the NSX vs. S2k vs. ITR, the reason I ask is because I very rarely track cars and hardly ever street race anymore so I was just wondering since I can't go out there and figure out myself.

Thanks

 

[john576]

I FELT very comfortable pushing the ITR hard into a 90 degree turn. Sometimes the front would hop a bit, but the tail never gave out. In driving the NSX through the same turns the rear has momentarily broken loose, until traction control intervenes, which is a little scary.
Relative to the ITR, the NSX gives me the FEELING of going slower than I ACTUALLY am. Unfortunately, I have not recorded speeds of both cars entering and exiting the same 90 degree turns. I would guess the NSX wins both though.

 

[nsxtasy]

I FELT very comfortable pushing the ITR hard into a 90 degree turn. Sometimes the front would hop a bit, but the tail never gave out. In driving the NSX through the same turns the rear has momentarily broken loose, until traction control intervenes, which is a little scary.

The advantage and disadvantage of the NSX in handling arises from the same source: low polar moment of inertia. With the weight concentrated in the middle of the car, it's very easy to initiate a turn. However, if you're not careful, it's also possible for that turn to go past the desired point, and for the rear to break loose. This can actually be a desirable trait for those with the track experience to take advantage of it.