Roll-bar required?

MarkB · 16 February 2004

I am considering Road America this year with Windy City BMWCCA. My X is a Targa. Will this group allow me to run w/o a roll-bar if the top is in place?

Secondly, what are some of the organizations that require a roll-bar for an NSX-t?

ncdogdoc · 16 February 2004

I have never heard of a group that requires a roll bar for a targa. I also do not know anyone who would track their targa with the top off

W · 16 February 2004

ncdogdoc said:
I also do not know anyone who would track their targa with the top off

What's wrong with that? A lot of Miata guys track their cars with the top down.

docjohn · 16 February 2004

In the NE I know of no group that prohibits a T with roof on. A T with out the roof will be prohibited except for parade laps.AFAIK,Ken has mentioned many times that windy city BMW would require a bar for targas even with the roof on.

nsxtasy · 16 February 2004

I believe most of the Midwest BMW CCA chapters will not allow a removable-roof car such as the NSX-T to participate in their events, regardless of whether it has a roll bar or not, and regardless of whether the roof panel is in place or not. However, I am not absolutely positive about any particular chapter's policy. You would need to check with the person(s) responsible for the specific chapter's track events to be sure, one way or the other.

For Windy City Chapter BMW CCA events, ask Barbara Adams at [email protected].

MarkB · 16 February 2004

Thanks Ken. I tried a couple of email addresses and got no response. That's a new one.

MarkB · 16 February 2004

FYI, I just received a response from WCBMWCCA re: this issue. The NSX-T is not a problem.

ncdogdoc · 16 February 2004

W said:
What's wrong with that? A lot of Miata guys track their cars with the top down.

And they are running a full cage, unless they do not care about their future.

Plus the Miata is a convertable. Very different experience than that of a targa. The only targa type cars I have ever seen run topless were old 914 style Porsches and Vipers, and they were actual race cars so they had to have a cage per series rules, and they ran without the tops to reduce weight (especially up so high).

W · 16 February 2004

ncdogdoc said:
And they are running a full cage, unless they do not care about their future.

Plus the Miata is a convertable. Very different experience than that of a targa. The only targa type cars I have ever seen run topless were old 914 style Porsches and Vipers, and they were actual race cars so they had to have a cage per series rules, and they ran without the tops to reduce weight (especially up so high).

I would have thought that, if anything, you would have to run with the Targa off for safety reasons.

I don't run a full cage in my Miata, just a 4 point rollbar. I know a lot of Miata owners who do the same. Of course, I know a lot of more serious racers who are a different story (ie. Spec Miata guys).

About the full cage issue, what about targa owners? What is your standpoint on safety? Should they also run full cages or else be classified as those that do not care for their future? Not trying to pick a fight or anything.

johnnybul · 16 February 2004

TOPLESS

Just a few years ago there were many Miata's and Z3 entered in the Genesee Valley BMW D/E's, however the rules have changed and this year they are not permitting any convertibles. Here is what they have to say:

New Convertible rules: We will no longer be accepting convertibles. The main reason for this is the fact that instructors are refusing to ride in them.

Targa's are safe now but......

John Bulbulia

92' NSX
01' E46 M3
72" Series IIA Land Rover

nsxtasy · 17 February 2004

MarkB said:
FYI, I just received a response from WCBMWCCA re: this issue. The NSX-T is not a problem.

Great! Hope to see you again there. Maybe I'll even be your instructor.

ncdogdoc · 17 February 2004

W said:
I would have thought that, if anything, you would have to run with the Targa off for safety reasons.

I don't run a full cage in my Miata, just a 4 point rollbar. I know a lot of Miata owners who do the same. Of course, I know a lot of more serious racers who are a different story (ie. Spec Miata guys).

About the full cage issue, what about targa owners? What is your standpoint on safety? Should they also run full cages or else be classified as those that do not care for their future? Not trying to pick a fight or anything.

I have seen two convertables with four point bars roll at the track, and the windshields were not able to handle the load, that is why I said a full cage. I really think the broomstick test is just something to help the insurance companies in court when the inevitable eventually happens.

The NSX targa was designed to be a structural member of the car, and considerably stiffens the vehicle when in place. I have heard horror stories about targas on Vipers and one of the models of Supras (not sure which era) which are not much better than a cloth top.

I am starting to believe that tracking without a cage is too much of a risk. The chance is albeit very, very small, but the results can be catastophic. Then again, maybe I am just realizing that I over 40 and having a mid life crisis

W · 17 February 2004

ncdogdoc said:
I am starting to believe that tracking without a cage is too much of a risk. The chance is albeit very, very small, but the results can be catastophic. Then again, maybe I am just realizing that I over 40 and having a mid life crisis

To be honest, I've been thinking the same too lately.

Roll-bar required?

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