Resurfacing NA2 Brake Rotors

[RYU]

I'm considering resurfacing the rotors. I normally wouldn't think twice of doing so on a DD but i'm on the brakes quite hard at times on the NSX. I'm currently on stock pads but I will be replacing to better pads after a decision is made on what to do with the rotors.

Any thoughts out there?

 

[CL65 Captain]

I'm considering resurfacing the rotors. I normally wouldn't think twice of doing so on a DD but i'm on the brakes quite hard at times on the NSX. I'm currently on stock pads but I will be replacing to better pads after a decision is made on what to do with the rotors.

Any thoughts out there?

Brakes are brakes. If the rotors are still in spec (ie the thickness of the rotor) than there is no problem having them done.

Why are you going to resurface the rotor? Are they juddering when you brake?

It WILL shorten the overall life of the rotor. What pads are you going to run?

The only pad I have run that absolutely needed a fresh rotor was the Performance Friction PC01. They juddered so bad it would rip the steering wheel out of your hands. I wasn't the only one to find this out. I have run Hawk HP+, DTC70, DTC60, Blues, Cobalt Friction pads, & Carbotech pads all of which didn't NEED to be resurfaced before running on the track. You could go from your street pads, bed in the race pads and then head out to the track.

I keep a set of Hawk Blues that are VERY abrasive when cold and I run them for a couple of days to scrub off the street pad material before swapping to my PFC01s for the track. Does the trick without having to resurface the rotor.

 

[jtower]

100 grit garnet paper and a little elbow grease will accomplish the same thing with minimal loss of rotor material

 

[RYU]

Thanks for your thoughts.

Yes, i'm definitely feeling a shuddering when my rotors heat up after a few 80-100mph hard decelerations. Doesn't seem to happen when the brakes are cold but that doesn't last long since they're warm quickly and i'm not on my brakes that hard since my tires are still probably cold as well. This is on a completely stock NA2 setup. I believe with only 15k miles of (normal?) wear.

I plan to run a slightly more aggressive street/track pad. Admittedly I have still to do the research. Not sure which ones yet but I'd like to avoid switching out pads so these will be on there for both street and aggressive driving.

Sounds like I can give the resurface a shot! Hopefully no one else out there has suffered from even more warpage or spider-cracking after a resurface. Will try to narrow down on pads. Recommendations are welcome but i'll be researching on prime soon.

 

[RYU]

100 grit garnet paper and a little elbow grease will accomplish the same thing with minimal loss of rotor material

Even a warped rotor?

I should also say... I'm running 18s up front which i'm sure aggravates the problem!

 

[docjohn]

check to make sure both pads are wearing evenly sometimes a sticking piston can grind down a pad unevenly allowing for judder and uneven deposits,,all conspirering to give you ....bad Mu.....

 

[jtower]

Even a warped rotor?

I should also say... I'm running 18s up front which i'm sure aggravates the problem!

95% of the time the rotor isn't warped, the vibration is caused by uneven or mismatched pad deposits. and if the rotor is warped, turning it isn't gonna help for long because you end up with varying thickness which makes further warping even more likely.

most track pad compounds (esp older ones like hawk blues) are fairly abrasive when they're cold so a day or two of street driving often scrubs the deposits off. just be careful as they also don't stop too well when cold

 

[CL65 Captain]

just be careful as they also don't stop too well when cold

Speaking of which, my car still has PFC01 on the front and Cobalt XR3s on the rear and I had to drive it up to Pep Boys to pick up some oil (SALE :wink as my DD is still in Detroit. Temp outside is 19F and I didn't notice any stopping problems AT ALL. Car drove just like with street pads. Did it have 100% stopping power? Probably not, but it was definitely "street able" even at 19F. PS - I never have any squealing at all from these either.

 

[jtower]

Speaking of which, my car still has PFC01 on the front and Cobalt XR3s on the rear and I had to drive it up to Pep Boys to pick up some oil (SALE :wink as my DD is still in Detroit. Temp outside is 19F and I didn't notice any stopping problems AT ALL. Car drove just like with street pads. Did it have 100% stopping power? Probably not, but it was definitely "street able" even at 19F. PS - I never have any squealing at all from these either.

pfc01/06 are pretty amazing - they work reasonably well when cold, are seemingly impossible to overheat, don't squeal or dust much, are kind to rotors, and don't corrode your wheels if the dust gets wet. but they're like having a wolf as a pet - not entirely domesticated. i remember exiting the freeway on a cold damp day on the way home from vir in my m3 (on pfc01) and got nothing when i hit the brakes, took a couple of seconds before they started to bite. wasn't a big deal but if i REALLY needed to stop i'd have been screwed.

 

[BobK]

Boy, I have been searching old posts about brakes and pads for my up coming turbo car and I'm almost more confused now than before. What I'm looking for is a pad that that will be good for 99.9% street driving but with a forced induction car around 400rwhp I want a pad that will be better at bringing me down from triple digit speeds at a moments notice. I don't want to hear noise but am willing to put up with some dust. My concern is the track pads seem to need some time to heat up and if I run up to 100mph + and have to haul it down quickly I may not have time to wait for the rotors and pads to heat up unless you think that simply stomping on the brakes from that speed will bring everything up to temp immediately. Also what if I have to stop quickly from lower speeds such as 50 or 60 will they heat up enough? I'm not looking to get new or bigger rotors unless I have to.

 

[Hrant]

Boy, I have been searching old posts about brakes and pads for my up coming turbo car and I'm almost more confused now than before. What I'm looking for is a pad that that will be good for 99.9% street driving but with a forced induction car around 400rwhp I want a pad that will be better at bringing me down from triple digit speeds at a moments notice. I don't want to hear noise but am willing to put up with some dust. My concern is the track pads seem to need some time to heat up and if I run up to 100mph + and have to haul it down quickly I may not have time to wait for the rotors and pads to heat up unless you think that simply stomping on the brakes from that speed will bring everything up to temp immediately. Also what if I have to stop quickly from lower speeds such as 50 or 60 will they heat up enough? I'm not looking to get new or bigger rotors unless I have to.

Life in the fast lane is a compromise. All the pads that you would be considering for your needs will be ceramic. As such they will squeal and dust to some degree there is no iffs about it. For your needs, I would suggest the Carbotech AX6 (aka Panther Plus). They don't need to heat up, dust minimally more than the OEM, very rotor friendly, and if you chafe the edges by about 1/8" they will not squeal irrespective of what others may claim based on 10 year old experience with them :wink:

 

[CL65 Captain]

Boy, I have been searching old posts about brakes and pads for my up coming turbo car and I'm almost more confused now than before. What I'm looking for is a pad that that will be good for 99.9% street driving but with a forced induction car around 400rwhp I want a pad that will be better at bringing me down from triple digit speeds at a moments notice. I don't want to hear noise but am willing to put up with some dust. My concern is the track pads seem to need some time to heat up and if I run up to 100mph + and have to haul it down quickly I may not have time to wait for the rotors and pads to heat up unless you think that simply stomping on the brakes from that speed will bring everything up to temp immediately. Also what if I have to stop quickly from lower speeds such as 50 or 60 will they heat up enough? I'm not looking to get new or bigger rotors unless I have to.

The question is how many times do you need to slow from 150 mph in succession? Any pad will do it, even OEM, but if you repeatedly haul down from high speed (100+) is when fade sets in.

Hrant is right the Carbotech pads are good - even the XP8 is very streetable. As well, Cobalt Friction XR3 and Hawk HP+ (even a street/suedo track pad is going to dust like a MOFO).

I have never had the OEM pads fade on the street even during aggressive follow the leader on back roads. The track where I am braking from 100 mph+ down to 70-80 3 or 4 times during the course of a 1:20 second lap and repeating over and over again is another story. There isn't enough time for the rotors to cool in between brake applications. On the street, I don't think you would have that problem.

 

[BobK]

I'm not so much talking of fading as much as the ability of the pad to work immediately without time to come up to temperature. Also do some of these pads actually allow you to stop in a shorter distance from oem or are they just better at reducing fade.

 

[docjohn]

I'm not so much talking of fading as much as the ability of the pad to work immediately without time to come up to temperature. Also do some of these pads actually allow you to stop in a shorter distance from oem or are they just better at reducing fade.

don't over think the unknown, try some of your high speed stops with the oem pads and see if you like the result.

 

[BobK]

don't over think the unknown, try some of your high speed stops with the oem pads and see if you like the result.

Well right now i'm getting juddering when I hit the brakes hard so I guess I need to look into that situation before I do anything else. The car is in the shop to get the turbo installed so I will have them look at the brakes.

 

[Hrant]

Well right now i'm getting juddering when I hit the brakes hard so I guess I need to look into that situation before I do anything else. The car is in the shop to get the turbo installed so I will have them look at the brakes.

Let's diagnose this. Does this happen everytime you hit the brake or under certain conditions?

Step one, and presumably you already have checked this, check if the lug nuts were torqued properly. Second, I would inspect the rotors visually and also measure if they are withing spec. It is hard to detect minor warpage if indeed they are off. If all seem good, third, rough the rotor with some 150 grit paper to eliminate any uneven built up pad materials. Then do the same with the pads - another way is rough them on asphalt pavement. Embed properly - and this is the key; many times this is where the problem lies. If all fails, then do your shopping :wink:

 

[nsxtasy]

To eliminate shudder, you can also try bedding your pads, rather than sanding or resurfacing the rotors. Often you can eliminate shudder by doing so, and if it doesn't, well you haven't gone to a whole lot of trouble by trying, and you can then go the sanding/resurfacing route. For more info about shudder and bedding, check out these links:

Stoptech White Papers, including:
The "Warped" Brake Disc and Other Myths of the Braking System
Pad and Rotor Bed-In Theory, Definitions and Procedures

What I'm looking for is a pad that that will be good for 99.9% street driving but with a forced induction car around 400rwhp I want a pad that will be better at bringing me down from triple digit speeds at a moments notice. I don't want to hear noise but am willing to put up with some dust. My concern is the track pads seem to need some time to heat up and if I run up to 100mph + and have to haul it down quickly I may not have time to wait for the rotors and pads to heat up unless you think that simply stomping on the brakes from that speed will bring everything up to temp immediately. Also what if I have to stop quickly from lower speeds such as 50 or 60 will they heat up enough? I'm not looking to get new or bigger rotors unless I have to.

I recommend giving the Hawk HP+ pads a try. They will give full braking even when cold, and they don't squeal (unlike the Carbotech AX6/Panther Plus, which WILL squeal like a pig, regardless of how many rude, nasty comments Hrant makes about people who have actually tried them). You can get more aggressive track-only type pads, but as you correctly note, they don't typically grab immediately when cold, so there are trade-offs. To me, the Hawk HP+ is the one that seems to best meet the trade-offs you're looking for.

 

[stuntman]

Many current/modern race pads (including Performance Friction "01" and "06" compound) have great cold initial bite and don't need to "get up to temp".


0.02

 

[jtower]

Many current/modern race pads (including Performance Friction "01" and "06" compound) have great cold initial bite and don't need to "get up to temp".


0.02

i run pfc06 on my race car and LOVE them. a couple of quick taps on the out lap and they're good to go. quiet, non-corrosive dust, reasonably good driving characteristics, and they last longer than anything else on the market. the 01 has slightly better feel imho but don't last as long. still, you gotta be a little careful with them in cold wet conditions (see my earlier post).

 

[stuntman]

i run pfc06 on my race car and LOVE them. a couple of quick taps on the out lap and they're good to go. quiet, non-corrosive dust, reasonably good driving characteristics, and they last longer than anything else on the market. the 01 has slightly better feel imho but don't last as long. still, you gotta be a little careful with them in cold wet conditions (see my earlier post).

PFC is still working on making 06s for the stock NSX front caliper

 

[latzke]

I had a similar problem when my pads (DT60/70 - like a dumbass I used them not just on the track...but on on the street for quite a few years) simply became old - the compond seemed degraded. Not only shimmy of the wheel but an aweful sound when decelerating rapidly from higher speeds (rapidly for street, not to be confused with threshold at the track).

Initially thought the rotors were the problem but replaced pads with new (HP+) before buying new rotors (or touching them at all) and the pads alone did the trick. In addition to the suggestions of light sandpapering to get uneven pad deposits off the rotor - new pads may help.

On a related note I've never let anyone turn rotors on any of my cars. I could be way off but I have this impression that the MO of certain types of shops is to tell you you need new shocks, brake pads, and rotors turned without regard to actual condition/need...and that in the rare chance a street car needs rotors turned you might as well install new ones because turning is a temporary solution at best but more frequently a cause of real issues in the future.

 

[WPG_NSX]

-Get them to check the front end for any looseless...ie. tie rods, ball joints.
-if rotors need to be resurfaced, make sure you grind off the rust from the
hub and the back of the rotor to make sure everything is true (even)