replace/rebuild starter

[mhoyt01]

Hey fellas,

After the usual painfullly long diagnosis process, I have decided I have a bad starter on my '91. Yes, my battery is relatively new and holds a charge quite nicely. THANKS to you guys, I found on a post that I can get that exspensive thing rebuilt. For those curious, here are the prices,:

Just the starter:
South Coast Acura
Retail 698+tax
Wholesale 20% off
Kragen(Bosch starter
Retail 314+tax
Wholesale 303+tax
Standard Rebuilders in Santa Ana
Rebuild mine for $110. Excellent, I choose option 3.

NOW, have any of you removed this pice of equipment? I figured you guys could explain or direct me to a previous post of website where there are direction and save me a potload of time.

Thanks,
Matt

 

[sjs]

Hey fellas,

After the usual painfullly long diagnosis process, I have decided I have a bad starter on my '91. Yes, my battery is relatively new and holds a charge quite nicely. THANKS to you guys, I found on a post that I can get that exspensive thing rebuilt. For those curious, here are the prices,:

Just the starter:
South Coast Acura
Retail 698+tax
Wholesale 20% off
Kragen(Bosch starter
Retail 314+tax
Wholesale 303+tax
Standard Rebuilders in Santa Ana
Rebuild mine for $110. Excellent, I choose option 3.

NOW, have any of you removed this pice of equipment? I figured you guys could explain or direct me to a previous post of website where there are direction and save me a potload of time.

Thanks,
Matt

Read the factory service manual. I think there's on online.

BTW, First time failures on starters are almost always just worn brushes. New brushes typically cost less than $5 (they were $1 for my Suburban) and are often very simple to replace. I seriously doubt that the NSX starter has unique brushes.

 

[DanO]

Check out SM page 23-79 through 23-83. From these pages, removal seems pretty easy but I have a sneaking suspicion that it is not. It may require the removal of the front beam to gain access to the bolts and to remove the starter but I really have no idea.

DanO

 

[mhoyt01]

Thanks for the advice fellas, here's how i got it out.

Factory Service Manual page 23-81 has a nice diagram, that's about pg 1067 or so on the 1400 acrobat online document(thanks to whoever did that)

Here's how you should do, not how I did it.

Go in from the top, no need to jack her up.(I did this step right, unknowingly, then proceeded to do everything else backwards

Unnattach the battery hot with a 15 mm socket.
Pull the wiring harness
Loosen the upper of the two 10 mm bolts that hold the coil to the starter.
The two bolts that hold this thing in are 17mm.(that will save you time, trust me) They are not visable, you need good overhead light, cus everythings way down there.
Find the BOTTOM one first with your fingers, then stab at it with a 17mm socket with extension. Deep socket isn't necessary but will provide more length which is good. I happed to have 1/2" drive which I think helps alot.
Once you get it going, don't stop, it's practically never possible to turn with your fingers and is very hard to get that socket on there.
Repeat same process with top one.
Undo that 10 mm bolt you loosen earlier and pull it from the coil and the whole thing comes out without removing any extra parts.

DON'T do what I did and remove the top bolt first bcs it's easier to get at, this was a large mistake.

NOW, sjs, I talked to my pop, and he completely agrees with you, the stater can MOST likely be fixed with brushes or something else. Here's the thing though, I thought I was gonna have to pay $340 for a new one, found out I only have to pay $110 to rebuild it, and after leaving blood, sweat, and tears in my driver side engine compartment, I definetly only want to put that thing back in once, and NOT have to pull it out again.....

Matt

 

[Daria]

I removed my starter (to have it re-built) approx 3 years ago. From what I remember, you need to jack all 4 wheels up so you can comfortably crawl under the car. The main steps are as follows:
1. Disconnect the car battery
2. Remove starter cable from top of starter (it has a black rubber boot over the nut). I think it also had a copper washer that fell out when I removed the cable.
3. Remove 2 mounting bolts that hold the starter to the motor (this requires long extensions on a large size ratchet). You’ll need a large ratchet for all the leverage you can produce as you’re laying on your back under the car trying to crack open bolts that have kept snug for 10+ years – mine were tough! You’ll also need 8” to 12” long extensions to get at these bolts – you’ll have to be patient and fish the socket and extension properly onto the bolts – Do not rush it because if you strip these babies you’ll have a hell of a time getting them out!
4. With the 2 bolts removed, pull the starter out (towards the front of the car) and it will drop out.
5. The 2 main bolts need to be torqued @ 32-ft-lbs. The nut holding the cable to solenoid to be snug tight.
Good luck.

 

[Daria]

Hey Matt:

Looking at the time of your post, you beat me by 9 minutes - I guess I was still typing.

Glad you got it out.

 

[mhoyt01]

Thanks Daria,

9 minutes late is better than never =]

Matt

 

[sjs]

... sjs, I talked to my pop, and he completely agrees with you, the stater can MOST likely be fixed with brushes or something else. Here's the thing though, I thought I was gonna have to pay $340 for a new one, found out I only have to pay $110 to rebuild it, and after leaving blood, sweat, and tears in my driver side engine compartment, I definetly only want to put that thing back in once, and NOT have to pull it out again.....

Matt

Can't say I blame you for not wanting to risk doing it twice, but I figured the DIY option was worth mentioning. I'd wager that the "rebuild" will amount to blowing it clean inside with compressed air, visual inspection of the armature etc. which are likely fine, and installation of new brushes. But still, I'd agree that $110 is reasonable for someone else to do it and know it's probably right the first time, especially since they'll know what else to look for while they're inside.

 

[j14nsx]

I used to do some part time work for an auto-electrician. When repairing a starter what would typically happen is;

Take it apart
The bearings are usually, if not always bushes, as the motor is not for continuous use, they don't really require any work make sure they're clean
Free up the mechanism that allows the starter to engage the flywheel
Put armature on a lathe and spin it, use emery paper (wet and dry) to clean and smooth the commutator
Replace brushes
Give it 12v to test
Brush with wire brush to clean up

 

[mhoyt01]

Thanks for everybodies input. I went there before work this morning, the guy told me it would be 35 minutes, it was 75, so he gave me $10 off, so $100. They didn't rebuild mine, they just put it in a car and when the car came back, the guy had what looked like a brand new one in hand.

I put it in in about 30 minutes, that's right, it took that long to fasten two bolts and two clips, because it's all so buried. But the great news is my car starts first time every time, which is fantastic. And all for about 10% of what the dealer would charge.

Matt

 

[NetViper]

what symptoms were you having that lead you to learn you needed a new starter?

 

[mhoyt01]

Allright, you asked for it =] There's no short way to explain this.

When you're troubleshooting any problem, you try and isolate your variables so you can make logical conclusions about things.

My car seemed to have infinite variables for a time there.

It would start most of the time, then when it wouldn't, sometimes the accessories would have power, other time not. Sometimes it would crank slow, other time would crank fast. To make matters worse, I've had it since september, but don't drive it much. The guy I bought it from was useless, didn't know a thing about the car, the guy before him put all the stuff on it.

The reasons I didn't arrive at starter for awhile are the following.

1. My battery tray was bigger than my battery.(Is this right?, or is my battery too small?) So during some spirited driving, the hot cable would loosen and have aweak or no connection, dpending on where the battery slid. FIX: Radial arm saw and a 2x4.

2. My dash trunk light is very faded, and you'd have to look hard to tell that it is on. That, combined with the fact you have to be able to bench press 225 to shut my trunk completely, AND I rarely drive the car, means my battery would get drained every once and again. FIX, hit the weight room, slam trunk and scare all the old ladies at the grocery store parking lot.

3. I have a two stage alarm which was never explained to me. I still don't fully understand what it's doing, but when's it's in super aggressive mode, it uses battery power and I believe has a kill switch somewhere. FIX, turn off super aggressive mode, it's annoying.

4. Once I had all those problems fixed, which took awhile, my battery was always good, the car runs great once it's on, and the kicker, when you added a jump start, or whacked the starter with a crescent, it would fire right up. Both clear signs(if you battery is strong), that your starter is hurting

This is obviously all a pain in the ass, but it's part of getting you car dialed in. I know now my car inside and out, and have fixed asorted other things along the way.

Hope this help,
Matt