Remember the disussion about the "floaty" NSX steering vs. Ferrari discussion?

[BITeR]

One guy raved about the NSX'es "floaty" feel compared to the Ferrari's "sharp" response.
He sold his NSX and got a 348 or something.

Well I picked up a magazine (EVO) and they had a first drive of the Enzo.(F60)
It was quite amusing to read that the test drivers first line was:
"This first lap was an exploratory one. During it I notice that the steering's initial responce is slow, lika a Honda NSX's, to soften the mid-engined dartability"

Well, nice to see Ferrari finally catching up. What took then so long??

Someone find that thread and throw this in his face. hehe.. )

 

[Forums Nazi]

Originally posted by BITeR:
Someone find that thread

You mean this one?

 

[BITeR]

Yes, that's the one.

He loved the
"direct and explosively responsive" steering.
Sounds like he likes the dartability steering. He should not get the Enzo then...

Cool that the first thing the test driver thought of when driving the Enzo was the NSX!

 

[j14nsx]

Evo magazine, is one of the few where the editors like the NSX. There have been a few articles where the NSX has appeared recently. They usually test cars on the track, where the NSX feels at home. They appreciate the whole package that is the NSX, not just like a car because it has the most power, best interior or whatever.
It's one of the only British magazines I read.

Kevin
(UK)

 

[BITeR]

Yeah, I like EVO. Good magazine.

Just cool that they mention the NSX in a supercar like the Enzo.

Kind of like when Gordon Murray mention, in an interview, that he used the NSX when designing the M.F1. He also asked Honda for the engine before turning to BMW.

 

[Zanardi 50]

Originally posted by BITeR:
Yeah, I like EVO. Good magazine.

Just cool that they mention the NSX in a supercar like the Enzo.

Kind of like when Gordon Murray mention, in an interview, that he used the NSX when designing the M.F1. He also asked Honda for the engine before turning to BMW.

Anyone got a copy to this article you're talking about? I'd love to see someone here download a copy of the interview for all of us to enjoy.

BTW how's this ASIABOND guy doing on ferrarichat forum lately? He didn't like, trade in his 348 for something else now did he?

[This message has been edited by Zanardi 50 (edited 11 September 2002).]

 

[BITeR]

I'll see if I can find the article with Gordon Murrey. It is in my huge stack of magazines somewhere....

 

[BITeR]

Still looking for the interview...
found this in the process: http://www.weismann.net/supercar.html

and this comment:"An interesting debate about the NSX and one that has raged since its launch in 1990, when I worked for Honda in the UK in the Press and PR department. It is a car that broke new ground for a supercar and to really understand what a masterpiece of engineering it is you have to look past the facts and figures(which are ballpark average Supercar) and look at the intelligence which went into creating it. Aluminum construction, titanium conrods, 8,000rpm and climate control that works. Look at the brand new Ferrari 360 Modena and it is a copy of all these things - Ferrari had a big wake-up call in 1990 and it has taken 9 years to respond, which is good because it is a great marque that was falling behind. I work for another car company now but I am lucky enough that I do still have my dream car in the garage - an original 1991 NSX. Now with 38,000 miles on the clock it drives as good as the day it was made - only worn leather seats give the age away. Living near London, it never fails to provide an unforgettable drive on the english country lanes and is so much more exclusive than the Ferraris and Porsches that are common in London. On a trip to the Monaco Grand Prix, down through the autobahns of Germany, cruising at 150 mph was a doddle and believe me, you do get respect from the Porsche, BMW drivers who do know what an NSX is. If you accept it for the automotive technical tour de force that it is then the NSX is still a masterpiece and one final point, I know Gordon Murray who designed the McLaren F1 and he drove an NSX from the day it was launched as his everyday car and used it as the benchmark for the F1 roadcar - I don't think you can get any higher praise than that.

-- Graeme Holt, May 24, 1999"

 

[Zanardi 50]

yep I read Graem Holt's comments a while back in Phil Greenspun's NSX overview.
I'm still waiting for the G. Murray article. Hey, Biter, hurry up will ya !

lol!

 

[Soichiro]

If you want to get inside Murray's head you need to buy the book on the McLaren F1. It has all kinds of sketches and charts comparing the NSX to other cars. There's also the story of how the McLaren came to have an audio system - it is because of the NSX!

 

[hondaholic]

I was fortunate enough to be in the paddock at the San Marino Grand Prix enjoying hospitality that you cannot imagine. That is where I met Valentino Balboni who is the chief test driver for Lamborghini. He has driven nearly every Lamborghini off the assembly line since the late '60's and has been featured numerous mags over the years for his dream job. In fact he was hired by the Ferrucio himself.

I am telling you all of this because in the early 90's a journalist, driving an NSX, came to pick up the then new Diablo for a test. The journalist asked Valentino to drive the NSX and him his impressions. Valentino had so much praise for the NSX that the journalist published his remarks. Valentino was eventually invited to Japan as a guest of, I believe, Mr. Honda. He told me he really enjoyed his trip and was treated very well by everyone at Honda.

I think that is a pretty good endorsement for our car.



[This message has been edited by hondaholic (edited 11 September 2002).]

 

[RyRy210]

Originally posted by Zanardi 50:
BTW how's this ASIABOND guy doing on ferrarichat forum lately? He didn't like, trade in his 348 for something else now did he?

Last I heard he was thinking about trading his car for a F355.



------------------
2001 NSX-T
- Bilstein Shocks
- '02 OEM Wheels

 

[MYNSX]

I remember...He's obviously never driven my widebodied,coilovered yellow

MYNSX @ www.mynsx.com

 

[Zanardi 50]

Originally posted by RyRy210:
Last I heard he was thinking about trading his car for a F355.

If that's true, then I find contradiction in his remarks. This is what Asiabond guy said about the 348 vs. 355 before :
"Btw, I prefer the 348 over the 355 because it has a much more edgy at the limits feel, plus it is almost half the price of a 355."

Hmm... If that's so, them why is he getting rid of the 348 for the F355? Because the F355 feels 'floaty' up front when compared to the Enzo, or whatever the excuse he's gonna cook up this time?

This guy cracks me up! I'd take all of his analysis of NSX's or any other cars with less than half a grain of salt.

Hello there ryry210, we should hook up sometimes.

[This message has been edited by Zanardi 50 (edited 07 October 2002).]

 

[Dr. Gums]

Originally posted by Zanardi 50:

Originally posted by RyRy210:
Last I heard he was thinking about trading his car for a F355.

Ever wonder why most Ferrari dealerships do not carry any 348's - they are always sold at auto boutique type stores?
The 348 has the worst gearbox known to mankind- and was mocked in a write up when it first debuted!
As for power, unless you have tracked a 348 (not the challenge car) - it has the speed of a VW beetle and the handling of a bus - not to mention those ridiculous seat belts which open with the door. Every Ferrari enthusiast I know feels the 348 to be an embarrasment to the Ferrari lineage!
Is Ferrari a great car -yes!!!
Was the 348 a total failure (not by my terms, but by Ferrari's) - yes!!!

 

[effer]

Originally posted by BITeR:


Kind of like when Gordon Murray mention, in an interview, that he used the NSX when designing the M.F1. He also asked Honda for the engine before turning to BMW.

You mean it!

About Gordon Murray:

Murray promises comfort and driveability to match the Honda NSX,...

Murray drives a Honda NSX, of which he says:

"It's a fantastic car, but the traction control is awful. I always switch it off."

 

[BITeR]

Yes I mean it. Honda was asked, but declined. Honda was once offered money from BMW to buy the VTEC patent.

Damn, I can't find the article with Mr. Murray.
Someone else must have read all the good stuff from Mr. Murray. We should collect all the NSX references from the book.
McLaren F1 rules, and is still THE one to beat in the superduper exotic car league.

 

[Joel]

Does anyone have a pic of the McLaren's interior? I can't find one.

 

[BITeR]

first image didn work, try here
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Foothills/2565/mclarenf1/picpage2/mclaren-cockpit.jpg

[This message has been edited by BITeR (edited 07 October 2002).]

[This message has been edited by BITeR (edited 07 October 2002).]

 

[NetViper]

Originally posted by BITeR:

McLaren F1 rules, and is still THE one to beat in the superduper exotic car league.

Not according to our good friends on ferrarichat.com. Infact, according to them, not only can the ENZO beat the McLaren F1 on the track, but so can the f50 AND the F40.

You can read all about it here:
http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/21/144171.html?1034011326

IMO, the McLaren will waste ALL of them!

 

[JoeSchmoe]

Originally posted by NetViper:
Not according to our good friends on ferrarichat.com. Infact, according to them, not only can the ENZO beat the McLaren F1 on the track, but so can the f50 AND the F40.

Uhhhhh... no.

The F40 has been fielded at LeMans numerous times against the McLaren F1. I may be wrong, but I dont recall any wins by the F40 whereas the McLaren F1 got at least 2 wins (95 and 97?). Also, critics ridiculed the F40's turbo V8 as being underpowered for a car of this stature and price.

Ferrari was originally going to field the F50 at LeMans, but decided not to because the competition was too good. Although they eventually did make a F50 GT, it was never raced and only a handfull were produced.

I have no clue what the enzo will do. Time will tell.

IMO, the McLaren will waste ALL of them!

Correct!

 

[gheba_nsx]

Here's the McLaren F1 article with the poart about the engine from Honda:

The Story of The Great McLaren F1

The Race prepared version of this car, used in the Global GT Endurance Races, (which I have had the pleasure of watching at Silverstone), and LeMans are built in my tiny little village, in Surrey, England


What makes the McLaren F1 such a special car? Performance. No other road car accelerates as fast, no other road car has a maximum speed of well over 230 mph. It can outperform every other road car by a large margin. But there is much more to it. The McLaren F1 materialises the dream of a single man. Not just any man, but one of the most imaginative and successful engineers that Formula 1 racing has known.

Gordon Murray designed the Brabham-Alfa Romeo "fan" car that in 1978 won its first and only Grand Prix--then was immediately banned because it simply dwarfed the opposition. Murray was probably the first man to incorporate carbon fibre into the structure of Formula 1 cars, and he designed the world champion Brabham-BMW of 1983.

When he moved to McLaren, it was to design a sports car to beat the world, and he was given carte blanche by Mansour Ojeh and Ron Dennis to pursue the dream, regardless of cost. The target Murray set was that the car should be as compact as possible, yet practical, weigh no more than 1000 kg. (2205 lb.) dry and be powered by an atmospheric engine (for immediate response) developing at least 550 BHP.

At the time, McLaren was racing successfully with Honda engines, and it seemed logical to approach Honda for an engine meeting Murray's requirements. But the Japanese declined, feeling that they could not spare the capacity to develop such a project. So Murray then turned to BMW Motorsport and his old friend Paul Rosche, who had provided the engines to the Brabham team while Murray was in charge. Rosche enthusiastically accepted. Starting from a clean sheet of paper, Rosche and his team designed and developed a superb, all-aluminium 6.1-litre, 48-valve V-12, and it was a huge success right from the start. It immediately produced the required power and went on to develop as much as 627 BHP. Concurrently, the American Traction Company developed a fantastically compact transverse transaxle incorporating a differential with a 40-percent locking factor.

To reach his weight target, Murray had no choice as to the material to be used for the car's structure: It could be only carbon-fibre composites, mostly in the form of an aluminium honeycomb sandwich, while, wherever possible, the mechanical parts were made of aluminium and magnesium. There is hardly a component in the car that has not been specially designed for it, mostly to save weight. A typical example is the Kenwood CD stereo system. The unit proposed by the manufacturer weighed 37.5 lb. Murray said he would accept only half that weight. The company took on the challenge and eventually came up with a system even better than the original, weighing only 18.7 lb.

Finally, the car weighs 1100 kg. (2425 lb.) dry, and Gordon Murray's biggest disappointment is that he had to give up the idea of carbon brake discs, as used in racing cars. It proved impossible to make them grip sufficiently at low temperatures, especially in wet conditions. The switch to cast-iron discs cost him 39.7 lb. In the end, however, Rosche more than made up for the 220 lb. beyond the target weight by extracting some 75 BHP more from his engine than originally required by Murray.

 

[BITeR]

Yes, that's one of the articel I read. I stil can't find it, but I'm glad you did!!

Where did you find it??

 

[gheba_nsx]

Google is your friend...

I only had to tip random words like "nsx gordon honda" and I found a link to a deleted Geocities page. I used the Google archive function and the page was still there.

I abuse Google so much

that I never keep links of webpages, I only need some keyword and I'll find it very easily!

 

[effer]

Originally posted by BITeR:
Yes, that's one of the articel I read. I stil can't find it, but I'm glad you did!!

Where did you find it??

Road & Track November 1994 by Paul Frère

Here are some others:

R&T December 1997 First U.S. Test

R&T August 1998 Fastest street-legal cars in America

Motor Trend April 1996 about the F1 LM

668 hp @ 8,5K rpm
520 pound feet @ 4,5K rpm
60 kg lighter than standard F1
dry sump
downforce package

Motor Trend April 2000 about the Mc Laren F1 LM breaking the 0-100-0 mph world record with Andy Wallace

in 11,5 sec!!!

about 6,7 sec to hit the 100 mph mark

also 3,9 sec for 0-60 mph*

You can also buy A Brooklands "Road Test" limited edition about the Mc Laren F1 Sportscar wich includes the best magazines articles about it.


* don't these numbers make ringing some bells?

How often do we read about cars in the 350-550 hp range and way heavier than the Mac making 0-60 times on par or even better than it?

I don't want to be a party pooper but we are talking about Andy Wallace ( Le Mans winner and sometimes former F1 driver Jonathan Palmer ) and a 1,75 kg per hp car!!! ( 1,56 kg per hp in the F1 LM ). Not to forget about the special tyres that were used in this test...

Some people are BSing us must I presume!

Diablo: around 3 kg per hp and 0-60 of 3,8s!
911TT: around 3,7 kg per hp and 0-60 of 4,1
Viper: around 3,5 kg per hp and 0-60 of 4,2

and this is also convincing me that the NSX is truly a fantastic performer considering it 270-290 hp...