Red Sox - 2004 American League Champs

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2 July 2004
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RED SOX 10 YANKEES 3

Whaddaya know - the best team won, and <U>decisively</U>. And there's nothing that Yankee fans can whine about, although I'm sure they'll try to manufacture something. Poor Alex Rodriguez looked confused and on the verge of tears :D

Bring on the NL Champion!
 
More so than for any other team in any major sport, most baseball fans tend to fall into two categories: Yankee fans, and those who are glad to see the Yankees lose. Congratulations to all those in the latter group.
 
Congrats to my 2nd favorite team, I hope they go on to win the World Series. There is nothing like a game in Fenway, and I will be wearing a BoSox hat the rest of the way.

That being said, I am sure my boys will break out the checkbook to rectify any shortcomings. And just for the decisive comment, I shall leave you with one last riddle:

Q: "What do all MLB teams except the Yankees have in common?"
A: "They are all farm teams."

character42.gif
;)
 
Well they sure also make the champions list in most unkempt looking bunch of individuals.
Someone needs to take some scissors & razors to that motley looking crew. You'd think making that kind of money they could at least afford a decent hair-cut.
And does anyone in that organization understand what "uniform" means? It looks stupid when half(?) the team wears the knickers & socks & half wear long pants.

Comments have nothing to do with the fact I was rooting for the Yankees over them.
 
nsxtasy said:
More so than for any other team in any major sport, most baseball fans tend to fall into two categories: Yankee fans, and those who are glad to see the Yankees lose. Congratulations to all those in the latter group.

Yep, that's me, although I would still have rooted for the Red Sox if they had been against any other team in the AL except one (the Tribe).

I must admit, though, that it was very enjoyable seeing A-Rod pacing back and forth in the dugout as the game ended. He looked shellshocked, like he had just been hit by a freight train.

Go Sox! :)
 
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D'Ecosse said:
Well they sure also make the champions list in most unkempt looking bunch of individuals.
Someone needs to take some scissors & razors to that motley looking crew. You'd think making that kind of money they could at least afford a decent hair-cut.
And does anyone in that organization understand what "uniform" means? It looks stupid when half(?) the team wears the knickers & socks & half wear long pants.

Comments have nothing to do with the fact I was rooting for the Yankees over them.
So I take it that you pick your teams based on how pretty they look in their uniforms? The current Red Sox are for the most part a bunch of no-nonsense, regular guys who love to play baseball and are pretty damn good at it. They have an unselfish, team mentality that is rare in professional sports these days, and you can bet that the last thing on their minds is how pleasing their appearance is. My kind of team. The Yankees, on the other hand, represent the other end of the spectrum. But they should look on the bright side - now they'll have even more time to get their manicures and facials...
 
You know what blows my mind........

First, I'm saying this because quite frankly, I don't give a damn about baseball, or any sport for that matter. I only watched the last 3 games of the series because I was riding my bike on my indoor trainer and was so bored that I thought the game would pass the time. (wrong BTW)

....is how many people "claim" not to like the Yankees?? Is it really because they are a bunch of whiners, like some claim? Is it because they have won a lot? Is it because they are proud? Is it because they have done a good job in getting money from their employers?

I just don't get it..... I know nothing about the game (I'll probably be blasted just for that) however, this year I did hear something about the Red Sox saying, "Why not us??" If that doesn't sound like whining I don't know what the heck whining is. People complain that the Yankees keep winning!?!?! Isn't that what this country is about, we're supposed to love winners, regardless of how much they make. They still play the game pretty damn well, don't they?? As far as them making all this cash, why do you care!! I would guess that a vast majority of the players out there would love to have their shot at playing in a Yankees uniform, and making huge dollars. The only thing I can think of, is that while "some" fans are sitting at home in their sweat pants dreaming of what they could have done with their lives they get jealous at the guys who have accomplished a huge goal by getting signed to the Yankees.

Maybe they're stuck up....I really don't know. I don't follow the sport, and have seen only a few interviews. I really don't see anything different from any other sport. I actually think sports in general is full of big headed people, someone is always bragging and acting like they're the best. I have found though to take it with a grain of salt. They may not be like that in person, most of these guys have to talk the talk, it's all intimidation. Hell, look at our "smack talk NSXPO thread" there's quite a few guys on that thread that are full of themselves. You think everyone was kidding?....read again, and none of those guys received a drop of money for their track event!!

Look guys, I'm sure at least 1 member here is going to flame, but I truly don't care. I just think that peoples' feelings for the Yankees are completely unjustified. Just remember the Yankees sucked ass in the 80's, where were you then??

Here's the bomb.....IMO I think the whole thing is fixed :):) Someone at my job yelled at me and said, "No way, it's impossible", impossible??....That's a strong statement. If we can land a friggn' remote control buggy on Mars...TWICE!! then don't tell me Baseball can't be even slightly persuaded!!
 
dollars & sense...

nsxr1 said:
So I take it that you pick your teams based on how pretty they look in their uniforms? The current Red Sox are for the most part a bunch of no-nonsense, regular guys who love to play baseball and are pretty damn good at it. They have an unselfish, team mentality that is rare in professional sports these days, and you can bet that the last thing on their minds is how pleasing their appearance is. My kind of team. The Yankees, on the other hand, represent the other end of the spectrum. But they should look on the bright side - now they'll have even more time to get their manicures and facials...


hmmm... Interesting insights.

D'Ecosse was simply referring to presentation & uniformity in appearance. The NFL, NCAAF, NHL, NBA, and perhaps other prof' leagues do not allow such variances in the uniforms. The fines levied against players who don't conform to the guidelines can easily purchase a low-mileage NSX coupe :cool:

The particular individuals who don't appear to be mainstream in their grooming and appearance actually are making a style statement in itself themselves. It's silent self-promotion at it's best. Pedro and Manny looked like choir boys a few years ago, lol. So let me get this straight, being clean cut, well-groomed, professionally presentable, getting "manicure/facial" is a bad thing? :confused:

Also I wouldn't go as far saying the notable Red Sox players as being "regular guys" and "unselfish" and "team mentality...rare"

Damon, Johnny $ 8,000,000 (Grizzly Adams meets Green-Monster :p )

Garciaparra, Nomar $ 11,500,000 (w/ Chi' Cubs, but still a Red Sox contract- I don't know why though)

Martinez, Pedro $ 17,500,000 (Team-chemistry killer in spring training, all because he wanted a contract extension that he would decide how long for... all w/o allowing a physical)

Ramirez, Manny $ 22,500,000 (There is no I in team, but there is a ME! ME! ME!)

Schilling, Curt $ 12,000,000 (IMHO, worth the acquisition... he's a Yankee slayer [recall D'Backs]. On a tangent, Schillings mentor? Roger Clemens ;) )

Varitek, Jason $ 6,900,000 (Fiesty, mediocre catcher in the AL... relatively speaking)

Ortiz, David $ 4,587,500 (Considered to be the best bargain in baseball for his contract. I wouldn't hold my breath to seem him complete the deal he recently signed... he'll be seeking triple if not more of that amount above per annum.)

Indeed the best team is moving onto the World Series from the A.L. :)

Red Sox had the one intangible that GM's, Managers, Owners never have high on their list: middle/relief pitching (not just a "lights out" closer). Since the Yankee's last Championship in 2000, they've lacked that as they got accustomed to having 3-4 guys on their rotation capable of giving 7+ innings day in, day out (200+ innings per starter), ie. Clemens, Wells, Cone, Mussina, Petite, El Duque, etc. Once the playoffs begin, getting 5-6 innings w/ your starter is more optimistic and to be expected... therefore the need for some sharp bullpen aces to come in and be sharp 'daily' for 1/3 to 3innings- not just bottum of the 9th closers.

Anyways, people say the Yankees buy pennents/championships. That's just hater-talk. They simply have a tradition to uphold, a legacy to follow. For over 100yrs they've been following the same SOP. It's nothing new. And they do what they can to make it happen. They BUILD a team through their system (draft, minor leagues, int'l players) and buy the rest (often over-compensating to get WHO they want WHEN they want). I can say w/o a doubt the Red Sox have been put together for the past few years just solely to one-up the Yankees... through fire-sale of marquee players. An all-star team of sorts... but definitely not an idealized "team" as it has been dubbed (Detroit Pistons, now that seems like a "team" nsxr1 was describing).

Well Red Sox finally managed to do what they were striving towards. Interesting what will happen next!
 
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people hate the yankees because they win so much.its like why people hate ferrari in f1.all they do is win and other teams dont even compete to break records or to have the best car they all say,we or building this new engine so we can compete or beat ferrari.same way with the yankees. even redsox fans said it them selfs. the world series was last night. when they lose the world series(WHEN)haha they will all say, at least we beat the yankees.yes, they did beat the yankees and they did deserve it. they played harder. but to say jeter is a bum and they yankee franchise is garbage cause they lost is just childish. jeter has 5 rings. thats more than redsox have ever got. the whole team. they havent won a world series since 1918. the first world series was 1903. the yankees have won the world series 26 times, thats probably 4 times as many as the average team ever been to the world series. basically if you can name a team in baseball that has had a better carrer then the yankees i will shutup. its just one season
 
Re: dollars & sense...

Osiris_x11 said:
Anyways, people say the Yankees buy pennents/championships. That's just hater-talk. They simply have a tradition to uphold, a legacy to follow. For over 100yrs they've been following the same SOP. It's nothing new. And they do what they can to make it happen. They BUILD a team through their system (draft, minor leagues, int'l players) and buy the rest (often over-compensating to get WHO they want WHEN they want).
When you spend over $150 mil. annually to get players, when most other AL teams spend in the neighborhood of $60-100 mil. Isn't that trying to buy a championship team?
 
If you are referring to the "Hankees" it is more like $190 Million.

Also, they have not used the farm system in years. They go out and out bid other teams for their players.

Oh yeah, when is the last time they won the championship?

They built better teams in the past, when they did bring players up through their system. Now they trade propects away in deals to get free agents, a big change in their past methods.

They have the revenue, but the bottom line is the final result, World Championships".

Go Sox!
 
when was the last time they one a championship? 2000 you dont remember they won 3 in a row 98,99 and 2000. 3 in a row more than the redsox ever. when was the last time the redsox where there. oh ya 1918 i forgot.
yes world championships is the bottomline,and who has the most. :D i love all you yankee haters
 
My point is having a huge payroll does not always win championships. 2000 is 4 years ago. The only option for the Yanks is to win it all or it is a disappointing year (Come on, you must admit this is true).

The difference between the Yanks fans and Sox fans is, we handle not winning better. You guys are not handling it all that well.

Maybe next year you guys can spend $250 million and win it again.

Get over it, "it's only a game", it's only a game, it's only game".

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Now it's time for all you Yankees fans to get behind the AL Champs.

Go Sox!
 
RichH said:
My point is having a huge payroll does not always win championships. 2000 is 4 years ago. The only option for the Yanks is to win it all or it is a disappointing year (Come on, you must admit this is true).

The difference between the Yanks fans and Sox fans is, we handle not winning better. You guys are not handling it all that well.

Maybe next year you guys can spend $250 million and win it again.

Get over it, "it's only a game", it's only a game, it's only game".

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Now it's time for all you Yankees fans to get behind the AL Champs.

Go Sox!
i know we are used to winning its true. i know they deserved to win. i still am routing for the cardinals. we are rival teams :)
 
Re: dollars & sense...

ss_md said:
When you spend over $150 mil. annually to get players, when most other AL teams spend in the neighborhood of $60-100 mil. Isn't that trying to buy a championship team?
The Yankees payroll was ~$184M, the Red Sox were 2nd with ~$127M.

Even though the Yankees still outspent the Red Sox by a good margin, for anyone to claim the Red Sox are the "poor" underdogs is a joke. There are a lot of teams out there that wish they could spend that much.
 
It is absolutely true that throwing money into a team does not buy a championship. Now, if you combine a lot of money, along with shrewd moves, that can get you a long way towards winning. That is what happened during the Yankees run from '96 to 2000.

IMO, the reason the Yankees were so good, is that they had the best of both worlds: Steinbrenner's money without his influence. While Big George was banned, the Yankees actually kept their young players, instead of trading them for over-the-hill veterans, and built an impressive core (Jeter, Rivera, Pettitte, Bernie, Posada), to which they added the right mix of good veterans.

Ever since Steinbrenner has been back, it's been back to depleting the minor leagues in order to snag overrated veterans.

The main reason the Yankees lost to the Sox this year is the huge step back in pitching from last year. Even though Mussina was pretty good, Lieber was up and down, Brown is washed up, El Duque got hurt, Vasquez still needs experience, and the bullpen in front of Rivera was inconsistent.

I am a huge Yankees fan, and I have always hated the Red Sox, so I'll be cheering for St. Louis. The curse will live on.
 
Re: dollars & sense...

ss_md said:
When you spend over $150 mil. annually to get players, when most other AL teams spend in the neighborhood of $60-100 mil. Isn't that trying to buy a championship team?
By the way, the Red Sox are no better than the Yankees as far as buying or trading for other players. Go through their lineup, and tell me which significant player came up through their farm system.
 
Sox vs Cards

nkb said:
The Yankees payroll was ~$184M, the Red Sox were 2nd with ~$127M.

Even though the Yankees still outspent the Red Sox by a good margin, for anyone to claim the Red Sox are the "poor" underdogs is a joke. There are a lot of teams out there that wish they could spend that much.

Well when you live in division (AL East) with a behemoth (Yankees) you are forced to try to keep pace if you want to be competitive. Or as ussual the Yanks will win every year.

Never said the Sox were poor. It is all market related. I also never said there is anything wrong with it. The Yanks have the money, George likes to win and he is within the current rules. Some believe the rule should be changed (fans in all small TV markets)

There is no reason to argue with someone that declares they are a Yanks fan that hates the Red Sox. So, enjoy the games. Someone else asked when was the last time the Sox won? My answer YESTERDAY!

You guys enjoy crying in your beer. I am getting ready to go to Fenway Saturday and watch some baseball.
 
An article about the significance of the results of the ALCS, from today's New York Times:

In a Fan's Eyes, the World Turns Upside Down
By MICHIKO KAKUTANI


Published: October 22, 2004

There was a breakdown in the cosmic order Wednesday night.

At least that's how it felt to Yankees fans: all the old myths, the old beliefs in curses and destiny, had been shattered, left to blow about the chilly field at Yankee Stadium along with empty Cracker Jack boxes and tattered hot dog wrappers.

And the Yankees' very identity as destiny's darlings had been shredded as well in a spectacular reversal of fortune in which baseball's eternal losers, the scruffy, hopelessly jinxed Boston Red Sox, pulled off the unimaginable: toppling the once-proud Yankees in the most shaming and mind-boggling fashion - after the Bronx Bombers had been ahead, three games to none, in the American League Championship Series and a mere three outs away from the World Series.

For Yankees fans, it was not only a shocking humiliation, it was also a stunning fall from grace. Gone was the club's mythic sense of itself as a team of consummate pros, players who make all the clutch plays, always pull off the most impossible, last-minute comebacks. Instead of another highlight reel that could play endlessly on the YES Network, there were cheeky headlines shouting "Damned Yankees" and "The Choke's on Us." Instead of Bucky Dent and Aaron Boone, there was this: The galling sight of Red Sox players celebrating on hallowed stadium ground, only yards from Monument Park. And as Mike Francesa, a longtime Yankees fan and a talk show host on radio and television, noted, it happened on Mickey Mantle's birthday no less.

The team hailed as the team of the century is now mocked for pulling the biggest choke job in the annals of sports. The ghost of Babe Ruth was dead. The tide of history had turned. Karma had left the Bronx and fled north up the Eastern corridor.

Certainly anyone who was not a die-hard Yankees fan would say there was a kind of poetic justice to it all: an end to the dominion of the Evil Empire, a stake in the heart of the richest, most storied franchise in sports history. After 26 championships, after years of George Steinbrenner's outspending everyone, after decades of Yankees fans' taunting Boston with chants of "1918," wasn't it finally someone else's turn? And who better to do it than the Red Sox - national symbols, along with the hapless Chicago Cubs, of the perennial underdog?

And there were other morals to be drawn from the narrative. This is what happens when you don't cherish a home-grown star like Andy Pettitte and let him go. This is what happens when you chase after All-Stars like Kevin Brown, Alex Rodriguez, Kenny Lofton and Gary Sheffield, who are hardly true-blue, pinstriped Yankees. This is what happens when you think you can buy a championship team and strip-mine your farm system. This is what happens when you have the hubris not to correct obvious flaws on the pitching staff, like not having any ace left-handers.

Yes, Yankees fans have been horribly spoiled over the years. We did not know the pain of Boston. Or Chicago. Or even the pain of Jets, Mets and Knicks fans. We have taken tradition, luck and money for granted. And so there was that morality lesson as well.

Many Yankees fans had grown so entitled that they practically assumed a trip to the World Series was an annual autumn rite, and now that illusion has been smashed. And because of the shocking way in which the Yankees lost ("Hell Freezes Over," blared The Daily News), the result was not the usual disappointment that millions of sports fans feel every year, but something more disorienting - a kind of identity crisis, combined with a creeping sense of mortality, the realization that this was truly the end to the dynastic hopes that were planted in 1996 and that blossomed between 1998 and 2000. This, after all, was not the same Yankees team, and it did not possess the same mojo or the same ensemble feel. Only Bernie Williams, Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, Jorge Posada and Joe Torre remain of the old Yankees, and there was talk, even before this week's debacle, of the toll that time and age were beginning to take on some of them.

Yankees fans have been guilty of seeing the team's history as one bright line threading its way back through the annals of time, back to Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio and Mantle, while forgetting the drought years, say, that Don Mattingly suffered through for so long. In fact, we've lived in a happy bubble in recent years. We had become accustomed to savoring the joys of sport (escape from daily life, escape from real things like war and politics and business) without having to face many of its disappointments. We had all too often enjoyed the thrill of victory, without risking (we thought) the agony of defeat.

Of course, we can try to console ourselves with memories of what happened several decades ago to the Yankees' previous archenemy: after one awful postseason loss after another to the Yankees, the Brooklyn Dodgers finally beat the Bronx Bombers in 1955, only to fall to them, humiliatingly, a year later.

But for fans still reeling from Wednesday's epic loss, mustering that sort of hope right now is hard. The Yankees' monumental collapse in the face of a Sox team that seemed to rise from the dead went beyond most fans' worst-case scenarios, and it came as the culmination of a week of interminable playoff games that had already left New Yorkers exhausted and drained. It felt like a harbinger of a long winter of discontent, and perhaps a much longer sojourn in the wilderness - a prospect made all the worse by the sense that the world was somehow, bizarrely, disconcertingly, out of joint.
 
There is NO point talking sports with you guys. I have rooted for the Yanks, so you are wrong! When I lived in Manhattan (5 years) I attended about 20 games a season. Always rooted for the Yanks except when they played the SOX.

Not everyone one chants "Yankees Suck", or "1918" because that's what you believe. Some us are just baseball fans.

You guys need to get a grip. I feel like I am having this discussion with a bunch of 10 year olds. If I wanted to belittle NY fans, I could mention the Jets/Pats or Lions/Giants, but what is the point.

I have lots of Friends in NY and CT (Yankees and Mets fans) they have a different view, than you and your whining pals. They are baseball / sports fans.

You lost fair and square, cheer for whom ever you choose. I'll stick with the Sox. It brings me a sense of joy that your hatred and anger will be extended as the Sox continue to do well.

Have a great day you will win again, just not this year!

I don't plan to waste time with you guys again, Enjoy the Series.
 
RichH said:
It brings me a sense of joy that your hatred and anger will be extended as the Sox continue to do well.
It's always nice when a complete stranger can diagnose what I'm feeling over an internet forum. Who said I was angry? Who said that the Sox doing well will extend my hatred?

I think you need to get a grip. When I say that I hate the Red Sox, do you really think that I harbor actual hatred? Give me a break, it's sports. I don't get overly emotional when my team wins, I also take it in stride when they lose.

Also, I don't hate Red Sox fans. In fact, one of my best friends, who happened to be the best man at my wedding, is a Sox fan. Do you think I hate him? He's misguided, but I can live with his flaws :)
 
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