Rain

[dquarasr2]

How do you all find tracking your NSX's in wet conditions? How do you adjust your driving style (line, technique, etc.) to run in the rain?

How do you set up your car (i.e., soften shocks, swaybar settings, reduce tire pressures) and how effective do you find these adjustments? What kind of tires do you run in the rain? Streets or full-tread R-Compounds?

For those of you that do not have adjustable shocks and swaybars (where you can't soften them up), how do you feel your otherwise stock-suspended NSX handles in the wet?

So many questions!

 

[Nihilation]

Ironically my fastest laptime at Beaverun during my last Time Attack was set in the rain. I made no driving adjustments, just used a little more of my senses on track.

I was running Bilsteins with stock springs and 215/275 RT-615 tires. I felt the car handled great in those conditions!

 

[Scin]

You will probably be better off with good street tires, or R compounds that have decent tread, not just the single cut to barely pass the DOT test. Most race teams run increased tire pressure on rain tires to insure a nice firm tread pattern. I also wouldn't soften the suspension.

I ran my car at California Speedway with some Eagle F1 DS3's in some really bad rain. I was happy with the tires overall. I was very weary of all the walls and I ended up spinning with an instructor who kept telling me to give it more gas through the corner, which I did even though I knew the car well and it didn't feel right, I got a new instructor after that.

How do you all find tracking your NSX's in wet conditions? How do you adjust your driving style (line, technique, etc.) to run in the rain?

How do you set up your car (i.e., soften shocks, swaybar settings, reduce tire pressures) and how effective do you find these adjustments? What kind of tires do you run in the rain? Streets or full-tread R-Compounds?

For those of you that do not have adjustable shocks and swaybars (where you can't soften them up), how do you feel your otherwise stock-suspended NSX handles in the wet?

So many questions!

 

[Oligo]

I was at the same Cal Speedway event in the rain and had no troubles. Stock suspension running Toyo tires. No spins, no change in driving style. However, I did take the first few laps slower and did see Scin spin. To give you an idea of track conditions - there was a small pond in turn 1 that never did dry out over the course of the day.

If you have never tracked in the rain, find an opportunity. Sounds odd, but will make you a better driver in the dry.

 

[dquarasr2]

I was at the same Cal Speedway event in the rain and had no troubles. Stock suspension running Toyo tires. No spins, no change in driving style. However, I did take the first few laps slower and did see Scin spin. To give you an idea of track conditions - there was a small pond in turn 1 that never did dry out over the course of the day.

If you have never tracked in the rain, find an opportunity. Sounds odd, but will make you a better driver in the dry.

I've tracked in the rain, but not much in the aluminum wonder. So far I'm not happy with my particular NSX's balance; it's too oversteery on throttle application, especially when I trail brake. It just never seems to take a good set. I need to do some development work on it. At this point everything is suspect, most notably the pretty old R-compound Yoko Advan A032's. I think they're toast, although they have tread left. It might be time to get some new rubber. At least that would be the cheapest experiment at this point. My son has four Kumho Victoracers that would fit the 15" front OEM wheels, I'd just need to 2 buy rear 16" tires. I'm very used to Kumho with my Miata.

I toned down the oversteer with some rear toe-in, but I'm still not totally comfortable in it.

It also might be time for shocks (OEM still in the car, 78k miles), but then again it just might also just need a larger front bar, as some experienced track NSX-er's have told me. I'm inclined to think it's all of the above. And that's in the dry.

I got way out of shape exiting turn 16 at Sebring in the rain. First the fronts gave way with that horrible groan you get when the slip angle exceeds the ability of the tires to maintain direction, then the rears snapped even worse, sending me toward the inside retaining wall (which was moved close to the racing line, for some reason). Without some very fast hands (I decided if I was going to loop it it would be overcorrecting to the outside of the track, only lots of grass) to gather the car up I would have been looking at the wall with the driver's side of the car up against it.

I came in the pits and waited for the track to dry.

I am still coming to grips with the car in the dry, but I was wondering how you all adjusted to the wet.

 

[NSXDreamer2]

same as all rain driving, look way ahead, good windsheild wiper or (RainX). Maybe a good idea not to stay too closed to the car in front of you, or move a foot or 2 from his line to get better view.

Stay away from ponds, which in some tracks, you are driving away from your normal line. If you used to driving within inches of the edge of the pavement, maybe you need to dial back a little. Do not use curb, they are slippery. After couple laps, you will see the visible "dry" line.

Personal experience myself is on half worn Kumho MX on15/16 and 110k+ miles stock suspension. Found braking on the specific set up a little scary. I relied heavily on the ABS, (that was my first year tracking at the time, so then my braking skill still needed to be polished) despite the ABS actuation, the steering wheels fights a lot and the car had a darting feel left and right, hunting for traction.

Same as driving on snow, the steering wheel provide a lot of feedback that tells you what the front wheel is doing. I love it.

 

[Scin]

Get new shocks. Mine were shot on my 94 with 52k miles when I purchased it. I replaced mine with Bilsteins. The car was bouncy riding on the springs and wouldn't take a set before, it really killed my confidence. Installing new shocks made the car feel like it should.

What sort of camber are you running in the rear? I think I was running 3 degrees in the back and 1.5 up front. I really didn't have any oversteer problems with mine, except the one rain spin. My car mostly has understeer at turn in, then it will take a nice set and I can start feeding it throttle.

I've tracked in the rain, but not much in the aluminum wonder. So far I'm not happy with my particular NSX's balance; it's too oversteery on throttle application, especially when I trail brake. It just never seems to take a good set. I need to do some development work on it. At this point everything is suspect, most notably the pretty old R-compound Yoko Advan A032's. I think they're toast, although they have tread left. It might be time to get some new rubber. At least that would be the cheapest experiment at this point. My son has four Kumho Victoracers that would fit the 15" front OEM wheels, I'd just need to 2 buy rear 16" tires. I'm very used to Kumho with my Miata.

I toned down the oversteer with some rear toe-in, but I'm still not totally comfortable in it.

It also might be time for shocks (OEM still in the car, 78k miles), but then again it just might also just need a larger front bar, as some experienced track NSX-er's have told me. I'm inclined to think it's all of the above. And that's in the dry.

I got way out of shape exiting turn 16 at Sebring in the rain. First the fronts gave way with that horrible groan you get when the slip angle exceeds the ability of the tires to maintain direction, then the rears snapped even worse, sending me toward the inside retaining wall (which was moved close to the racing line, for some reason). Without some very fast hands (I decided if I was going to loop it it would be overcorrecting to the outside of the track, only lots of grass) to gather the car up I would have been looking at the wall with the driver's side of the car up against it.

I came in the pits and waited for the track to dry.

I am still coming to grips with the car in the dry, but I was wondering how you all adjusted to the wet.

 

[Scin]

Were you running the NSX in the race group?

I was at the same Cal Speedway event in the rain and had no troubles. Stock suspension running Toyo tires. No spins, no change in driving style. However, I did take the first few laps slower and did see Scin spin. To give you an idea of track conditions - there was a small pond in turn 1 that never did dry out over the course of the day.

If you have never tracked in the rain, find an opportunity. Sounds odd, but will make you a better driver in the dry.

 

[dquarasr2]

What sort of camber are you running in the rear? I think I was running 3 degrees in the back and 1.5 up front. I really didn't have any oversteer problems with mine, except the one rain spin. My car mostly has understeer at turn in, then it will take a nice set and I can start feeding it throttle.

I'm running -1.2 rear, -.8 front. Supposedly that's all that was attainable on the front (which sounds suspect) so I didn't want to dial in a whole lot more rear; I was afraid it would understeer.

Also, these were the specs I had received from a local NSX-er who has tracked his car so, so many miles. The car is also used on the street.

I can't help think it's shocks or swaybar. I've been given feedback that it's the rear bar, that I should remove it, or put on a honkin' front bar.

All I know is that the car doesn't feel planted on its suspension. I think what I'll need to do is have another NSX-er drive it and give me an opinion.

For now I'll keep to very smooth hands and avoid my tendency to try to throw the car around like I can do with my Miata. (Yes I know, another damn reference to that car, but if you've ever driven one really hard you know how ridiculously easy it is to look and feel like a hero!)

Thanks for your comments.

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

How do you all find tracking your NSX's in wet conditions? How do you adjust your driving style (line, technique, etc.) to run in the rain?

How do you set up your car (i.e., soften shocks, swaybar settings, reduce tire pressures) and how effective do you find these adjustments? What kind of tires do you run in the rain? Streets or full-tread R-Compounds?

For those of you that do not have adjustable shocks and swaybars (where you can't soften them up), how do you feel your otherwise stock-suspended NSX handles in the wet?

So many questions!

Ferrand's suggestions on the driving line are good. RainX is awesome. Some anti-fog on the helment visor and/glasses is great I've had fog force me to come in before. Maybe Brian can chime in, apparently he had a down pour during alfa day the other week.

As far as the car setup, generally a softer settings on the rebound and sway, with a tendency towards understeer works. Obviously the suspension and alignment needs to be maintained adequately. The NSX likes a staggered tire pressure, but keeping an overall higher tire pressure will increase stability in extreme wet conditions. Tires are most important. I am preferential to a Bridgestone PP or the toyos. At least some degree of downforce if possible.

Good driver. If you everything is there, and you tag a decently fast driving instructor to show you the wet line, you might be amazed at how fast the NSX can go in the wet. First time as a passenger in a near white out condition in a faster run group can sometimes be a little scary.