Racing School Recommendation

[TigerNSX]

As a lot of you have emphasized, one of the most efficient go-fast mods will be to invest in racing skills.

I was wondering if any of you have attended racing schools like Skip Barber, Jim Russel, Bridgestone Racing School Academy, and etc. Were the classes really helpful? Are there cheaper ulternatives for such classes other than going to the formal racing school?

I would appreciate it if anyone could share your thoughts on the experience before I jump on and register for the class that costs $3k-$4k (i wonder if they offer financial aids or scholarships j/k).

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Tiger,

I have not been to a multiple day course like Skip Barber, but they can really accelerate the learning process. Also for the money, you will use THERE car. Not necessarily a bad thing

If you are looking for a more cost effective route, there are many schools you can go to with your car that offer day rates, anywhere from $175-$250/day. You will get an instructor and use your car. Mucho fun!!! (2 consecutive days is recommended)

I would check on www.nsxuppereast.com I think that Rich has the NSXCA NE track schedule posted. Also do not hesitate to e-mail Peter Mills at [email protected] . I am sure you are aware he is the NSXCA NE rep and has a full track schedule and many details he can share with you. He is at Watkins Glen today and will be back tomorrow.

When you get a moment go to www.trackmasters.com and check out their programs. There are many alternatives, this will give you an idea what it is all about.

Are you going to LimeRock on the 24th??

HTH,
LarryB

 

[nsxtasy]

Are there cheaper ulternatives for such classes other than going to the formal racing school?

Driving schools are offered by many for-profit companies, such as TrackTime, Trackmasters, Car Guys, Chin Motorsports, and other groups. These schools tend to be less expensive, in part because you drive your own car in their events. Typical costs are $150-300 per day.

Driving schools are also offered by marque clubs, such as BMW CCA, PCA, etc. Because these are non-profit organizations, they tend to be even less expensive ($100-175 per day). BMW CCA, in particular, has a full program of track events nationwide, and (unlike PCA) does not require you to own one of their cars to become a member of their club.

I am not knocking the expensive schools like Barber and Russell; most of those I know who have attended those schools are very happy with the results. But they are indeed quite pricy.

 

[Number9]

I was wondering if any of you have attended racing schools like Skip Barber, Jim Russel, Bridgestone Racing School Academy, and etc. Were the classes really helpful? Are there cheaper ulternatives for such classes other than going to the formal racing school?

I've done racing school at Skip Barber (Laguna Seca) and Bob Bondurant (Phoenix) and found the classes extremely helpful. Also, driving professionaly maintained cars with limited liability caps permits you to focus on driving, without undue concern for the vehicle. For example, running over the curbing with your inside wheels at an apex can't be good for your street car's suspension. I've also spoken with friends and co-workers who have done Russell Racing and they seem to be similarly well run. If you are going to go the spendy route, the 3 and 4 day programs are probably best. Not enough seat time in a single day to put all that instruction to good use. Also, driving a formula car is a hoot!

 

[TigerNSX]

Thank you so much for your input, time, and comments, guys!!!

Larry: Yes, I have seen the schedule posted on the NSX upper east website and already marked my calendar (all I have to hope is that I won't have deadlines during those days)!! Also, I will be going to the Lime Rock Event on the 24th!! Will we be able to run on the track or will it be more like watching other cars race each other?

Ken: I will check out the BMW CCA. Since I used to have BMWs, I know some folks who are involved w/ BMW CCA, but I wasn't aware that it was open to other cars Thank you.

Number9: Sounds great. Perhaps, I will go through the inexpensive route, gather some experience, and then participate in the formal racing schools (by that time, I will be able to save up enough money to attend those classes).

Again, thank you so much for your help!!

 

[Tom Larkins]

Re: Re: Racing School Recommendation

I am not knocking the expensive schools like Barber and Russell; most of those I know who have attended those schools are very happy with the results. But they are indeed quite pricy.

Have done both, I would agree w/Ken on this one. Another thing you may want to consider is renting a car for a regional race school weekend via the SCCA. Alot of folks do rent their own cars to others to offset some costs (older F-Fords etc.)

I would say get some wheel time as cost effectively as you can then take your next step. If you find yourself progressing enough to take the next step then spend the $'s on Barber/Russell. If your doing ok and getting some good training w/o them, than spend the $'s on mods.

How fast do you want to go....How much do you have to spend!!!

 

[DocL]

I wouldn't use a club driver's ed day as my first driving school. First, it's in your car and if you do eff-up, it's going to hurt. Second, and not criticize anyone in particular, but the best instructors are usually those with door-to-door racing experience with championship wins under their belt. Most instructors with the big name schools are prime examples. I've taken the Skip Barber three day course twice, and I want to go back again. The classroom instruction is much better than what is given by your local (insert car) club.

Take your time and do it the right way. Remember, you get what you pay for and the risk here far outweighs the benefit by going the cheap route. Sign up for an intro or advance driving school, then go out and tear up the track in your NSX.

 

[Hrant]

I think the heading of your subject tells it all.

If you are interested in "racing" school, then by all means invest in one of those big name schools where they do racing and teach racing and pay the dough.

If you meant learning how to drive in "high performance driving event/school" then I would encourage you start with a car club that is strict when it comes to enforcing "school" philosophy vs open track racing. In such a beginners program, you don't need a racer who has banged sheet metal to learn such driving. In fact our experinece so far with the few times when we have had known racers as instructors has been that the true racers were not good instructors in such programs. They were not only off line, but they also spun, etc.. ...... not the example we wanted to promote.

The NSXCA Sacramento Chapter has put several NSX track event here in NorCal over the last 3 years. We darw over 40 NSXs at our events. The most rewarding comment from the newbies/novices is how much they appreciate our focus on safety.

As many have said, there is a program out there for every need.

 

[sjs]

For the most part I would agree with Hrant, with a few more comments.

First, I strongly disagree with the idea of renting a car for an SCCA race school. That should only come after you have a clue about performance driving. They do very little classroom about driving (focus is on flags, rules, etc.) and they do not have an instructor in the car with you while you drive. At most you ride a few laps in a different car with him driving slowly, explaining the correct line to you and other passengers. Other than that it amounts to limited observation of your driving from one corner at a time, and the on-track time very quickly ramps up to full wheel-wheel racing with passing anywhere. In other words, not an ideal starter program.

By contrast, many of the BMW and Porsche events make at least an effort at classroom instruction and then have an instructor in the car with you for as many sessions as necessary. Done right these are the best bang for the buck. As for damaging your car, that’s almost entirely up to you. Rarely does a beginner with his/her head screwed on tight bend their ride. However, you will probably use up a significant amount of tires and brakes if you catch on at all.

Skippy and similar are definitely the best overall instruction and quickest learning curve, but of course at a price. I would recommend Skip Barber even if you never intend to do wheel to wheel racing because they will teach you things you can really use. If you prefer to do a school in something more similar to your own car there are few schools that use things like Mustangs, RX7s, etc. rather than formula cars.

Buy Skip Barber’s book and read it before you do any of the above. You will get much more for your school money.

 

[Number9]

Buy Skip Barber’s book and read it before you do any of the above. You will get much more for your school money.

Couldn't agree more with that one. Whatever school/event you attend, if you haven't already done so, I would suggest: (i) reading the Skip Barber book, (ii) renting/buying the associated video, and (iii) getting comfortable with heel/toe (ball of foot, right side of foot, actually) downshifting BEFORE you do the school/event. That way, you'll have a good theoretical model of what you are trying to accomplish and you won't be fumbling with the mechanics of downshifting while braking when you ought to be worrying about the proper line, braking zones, etc.

BTW, one of the ancillary benefits of doing one of the branded racing schools is that there is some reciprocity amongst them, so if you take the racing school at, say Bondurant, you can go straight to the advanced activities (such open lapping days, i.e., monitored track time in a formula car with or without telemetry with passing allowed, all under observation by highly qualified instructors who provide post-mortem turn-by-turn critiques) at the other ones, e.g., Barber.

 

[nsxtasy]

not criticize anyone in particular, but the best instructors are usually those with door-to-door racing experience with championship wins under their belt. Most instructors with the big name schools are prime examples.

I disagree with this statement. People with racing experience and championship wins are fast drivers. They are not necessarily good at communicating with novice students. As Hrant notes, the NSX Club of America (which has a formal designation process for club members to be instructors at our events) has found this to be the case; some of our fastest drivers are not necessarily good instructors, and some of our very best instructors are not necessarily the fastest drivers.

That being said, I'm confident that the big name schools are very careful to designate instructors who are not only fast drivers, but also good communicators.

 

[nsxtasy]

Ken: I will check out the BMW CCA. Since I used to have BMWs, I know some folks who are involved w/ BMW CCA, but I wasn't aware that it was open to other cars Thank you.

No prob.

Also, be aware that the national club's calendar on their website does not always list all the track events being held nationwide. It's a good idea to use the links to look at the website for each of the chapters in your region, which usually list any track events the chapter is holding. If there's a particular track you're interested in going to, it's quite common for several different chapters to be holding driving schools there during the course of the year.

 

[TigerNSX]

Thanks to all of you for providing me with the various perspectives and ideas on this!!! I truly appreciate it! I will ponder about different ideas and options, and see what will suit my needs (and the wallet) the best!

Again, thank you!

 

[RSO 34]

I did the Skip Barber 3 day and also the 2 day Advanced schools before I ever took my NSX onto a track. The experience gained before doing a club event was well worth the cost of the schools.

Skip's 3 day school is also a good "investment" because you have no liability for damage. The 2 day Advanced school does have limited liability for damage to the cars.

Bob

 

[Number9]

Sorry if this sounds like I'm being a shill for Skip Barber (I have no affiliation except as a customer, and this might be of interest to those in this thread), but I just got an email from them indicating that they're doing a 25% off promotion. Still not cheap, but definitely an improvement:

Send your wife, husband or accomplished academic to RACING or DRIVING SCHOOL. Give them the once-in-a-lifetime experience of a Skip Barber school program. Drive alone or together, as a group. Between now and June, 16, 2003, take 50% OFF any Skip Barber retail school when you purchase the same school at the regular purchase price. A great way to share your racing or driving experience. OR, take 25% OFF any single school or Gift Certificate purchase.

For years, gift-givers have found Skip Barber Gift Certicates to be the best way to say THANK YOU, I LOVE YOU or CONGRATULATIONS. Save on all Dodge/Skip Barber Driving Schools in the One- and Two-day format, Introduction to Racing and Three Day Racing School programs.



Call a Customer Service Representative at 1-800-221-1131 for details.

 

[PKim]

One of the cheapest way to improve your driving skills is to enroll in a kart driving school. Most all F1 racers had started in Kart, before they got rides in cars. You could do a 3 or4 day school for under $1000. This is the closest thing to F1 racing, you can literally pull 2G's and it is very exhilarating. I would recommend starting in 100cc to learn the lines and honing in the driving skill then you could move up to 125cc shifter or now the SA 250cc 4 stroke engines that haul ass.

Paul

 

[Tom Larkins]

First, I strongly disagree with the idea of renting a car for an SCCA race school. That should only come after you have a clue about performance driving.

Guess I didn't make myself clear enough. I agree w/Ken about the PCA (etc) events. I feel that some real bargins can be found doing some SCCA schools after correct principals have been learned which you indicated if your willing to use your own car. Everyone thats been through Barber/Russell has enjoyed it for the most part, but a regional school is a viable option and certainly less expensive and a real eye opener that can save you some cash by comparison if you do some homework. Didn't intend to state doing a regional school via the SCCA as a 1st training ground. I'm not that nuts!

 

[ss_md]

One of the cheapest way to improve your driving skills is to enroll in a kart driving school. Most all F1 racers had started in Kart, before they got rides in cars. You could do a 3 or4 day school for under $1000. This is the closest thing to F1 racing, you can literally pull 2G's and it is very exhilarating. I would recommend starting in 100cc to learn the lines and honing in the driving skill then you could move up to 125cc shifter or now the SA 250cc 4 stroke engines that haul ass.
Paul

Speed cost money - How fast do you want to go?
First of all, what do you want to accomplish. General driving skills, street/canyon, defensive driving skills or racecar driver. These factors and the amount of time and money you are willing to invest will ultimately determine your path. Having raced GP Bikes at the club level (many moons ago) I can tell you that quality instruction is imperitive. Practice and having a quality mentor is the best possible scenario.
For the money, Karting is a good first step and offers a solid base into hardcore racing. Many of the top racing professioals run Karts just to hone their driving in the off season and in-between events. This is because there is so much similarity between a Kart and a race car. For the cost of a high profile 3 or 4 day school (>$3500) you could buy a used 100cc Kart, a helmet, inexpensive driving gear and you may have some left over for quality Karting instruction. You'd have a blast driving the Kart and you will get the training needed to progress. Plus you could go down to the local Kart track and practice what you were tought. For a resonable gate fee you can run laps to your hearts content or until you run out of fuel (both you and the Kart). Tires are inexpensive, they use pump gas + some bean/synthetic oil. As mentioned start with a 100cc Kart and IMO progress to a 125cc shifter. A shifter will give you the true experience of driving like the Big Boys"

 

[cojones]

interesting article: BMWCCA Club Racing

interesting reference / writeups here.... http://www.bmwccaclubracing.com/Primer/started.htm (getting started with Club Racing). These are good general concepts, focused on club racing under "vintage rules".

Interesting article : Common HPDE driving errors -- applicable to track schools, racing, and lapping days alike. http://www.bmwccaclubracing.com/Primer/errors.htm