Heading to my first track event at California Speedway and need to purchase a helmet. Any recommendations on best helmet in the $250 - $400 range? Also, best place to purchase on-line (good price, return policy etc.).
Thanks.
Thanks.
Racing Helmet Recommendations
- Thread starter Oligo
- Start date
Re: 3 things: fit, fit and fit
Fit is your first thru 3rd priority. You'll need to try them on; The Simpson Voyager is popular and in your price range, but many say there are "Bell shaped" heads and "Simpson shaped" heads, so try em on carefully.
Since it's your first track day and you may or may do it a lot, you might look for the Snell S2000 rating rather than the S2005 (most current) rating. Rumor has it they are virtually identical in design, but the S2000 will be on sale cheap compared to the new S2005's. You do know that auto helmets are different than motorcycle helmets, right? That may not be a big deal for some or most track day clubs, but better check their rules.
Don't know of shops down your way, but there's got to be several.
Fit is your first thru 3rd priority. You'll need to try them on; The Simpson Voyager is popular and in your price range, but many say there are "Bell shaped" heads and "Simpson shaped" heads, so try em on carefully.
Since it's your first track day and you may or may do it a lot, you might look for the Snell S2000 rating rather than the S2005 (most current) rating. Rumor has it they are virtually identical in design, but the S2000 will be on sale cheap compared to the new S2005's. You do know that auto helmets are different than motorcycle helmets, right? That may not be a big deal for some or most track day clubs, but better check their rules.
Don't know of shops down your way, but there's got to be several.
Absolutely true. Don't get them mail-order. They'll tell you you can measure your head, but that won't give any indication of comfort. If you have them shipped, there's a good chance it won't be comfortable and you'll either have to send it back, or live with one that's not comfortable.92 white 0650 said:
Go to a shop in your area that sells them, where you can try them on, and buy one there. You're not all that far from The Racer's Shop in Redondo Beach, which carries helmets from Arai, Bell, Bieffe, and Stand 21.
No offense to my friend Ted, but I respectfully urge caution regarding getting the older rating. Incidentally, there's a typo; the ratings are "SA" (SA2000, SA2005) rather than "S". Snell ratings are issued every five years, and most groups holding track events permit the two most recent ratings, with an extra year to permit people to buy helmets with the new ratings. So this year (2006) is the last year that helmets rated SA95 (from 1995) are permitted. If you buy an SA2000 helmet, it will only be allowed for the next 5-6 years, whereas an SA2005 helmet will be allowed for 10-11 years. If the savings on the older ratings were 50 percent, that might make sense, but they're not usually all that much.92 white 0650 said:
Re: How long to keep it?
And if he is a typical track hound 5-6 years from now, he may well have moved on to spending boatloads of money on all his equipment and a new helmet will not be a big thing.
Lastly, around my racing paddock, it's almost frowned upon not to replace the helmet every 5 years, simply because the inner padding ages and deteriorates to some degree and that's where the protection is.
Ken, what you said makes perfect sense for a long term mature sensible track day driver like yourself. But a lot of boy racer personalities come and go and don't fit that mold. He may not be around in 5-6 months, let alone 5-6 years, so why pay top $$ for a few track days. Of course, that assumes what I hear is right; there was no significant technical improvement in design and he'll have the same protection in a new SA2000 as an SA2005.
And if he is a typical track hound 5-6 years from now, he may well have moved on to spending boatloads of money on all his equipment and a new helmet will not be a big thing.
Lastly, around my racing paddock, it's almost frowned upon not to replace the helmet every 5 years, simply because the inner padding ages and deteriorates to some degree and that's where the protection is.
As I mentioned, the fact that helmet ratings are no longer honored after a period of "x" years is something that a helmet buyer should be aware of, and I'm sure you agree on that point. And it's a good idea to consider the possibility that you may enjoy doing this enough to be doing it for more than 5-6 years. If that happens, at that point you may regret saving a few bucks now.
Also, you're not going to find a huge selection of SA2000 helmets at this point, so it may be tougher to find one that's comfortable than an SA2005.
Keep the facts in mind, see the folks at race shops in your area, and decide what decision makes sense for you.
Also, you're not going to find a huge selection of SA2000 helmets at this point, so it may be tougher to find one that's comfortable than an SA2005.
Keep the facts in mind, see the folks at race shops in your area, and decide what decision makes sense for you.
It should be added that a helmet should fit quite snug at first but not painfully tight - wear it for a while. And it will be a little difficult to get on over your ears. With time, the padding will compress a little and the helmet will fit looser so you want it quite snug at first. If it is easy to put on, it is too big.
Also if you drop it or are in an accident with a hit to the helmet, the helmet should be replaced since it has been weakened - even if it looks OK.
Also if you drop it or are in an accident with a hit to the helmet, the helmet should be replaced since it has been weakened - even if it looks OK.
Thanks for the insight, especially recommending the Race Shop. A helmet is not something I will buy on line and would prefer to deal with a local shop. See you at the track.
AND you definitely want to purchase a FULL FACE HELMET - not the ones with the cute black visor and NO chin protection. Actually the reason is not so much chin and teeth protection (although that counts) as it is the ability to use a NECK COLLAR with a full face helmet to help prevent hyperflexion of your neck and prevent severing your spinal cord - you know: the NASCAR injury.
I just purchased the G-Force Hybrid helmet. It combines the good visibility of an open face, with the protection of a full face. Apexperformance.net has a special with a bag and a balaclava included plus free ground shipping for $200! Plus it is SA2005 rated.
Re: Neck collars
That being said, this type of injury applies mainly to racers rigidly belted in with a 6 point harness. It isn't nearly the same concern for a track day driver with a 3 point harness and air bag. Of course, we could delve into the compatibility question of full face helmets and airbags, but that's been beat up pretty good elsewhere. I'm not going to search, but it was a thread last year sometime.
Neck collars are fine for comfort maybe, but cannot prevent basal skull fracture which can kill any properly harnessed racer in any race car at speeds as low as 30 mph. Only a head and neck restraint will protect against that. The racing world is getting somewhat more sophisticated and even moving away from the strap devices as they are only marginally better than nothing. Rumor has it that SCCA may require any head and neck restraint to be the carbon fiber type (HANS, R-3 or Hutchens II). Interestingly enough, they won't require drivers to wear a restraint, only that the restraint be one of those 3, if a driver wears anything at all. Not sure I follow that logic, but we'll see how that plays out. I'm more interested to know if that rule eliminates neck collars which are pretty scarce on the racing grid anyway.
That being said, this type of injury applies mainly to racers rigidly belted in with a 6 point harness. It isn't nearly the same concern for a track day driver with a 3 point harness and air bag. Of course, we could delve into the compatibility question of full face helmets and airbags, but that's been beat up pretty good elsewhere. I'm not going to search, but it was a thread last year sometime.
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I have always used Shoei helmets, and I love them. I usually get the Troy Lee Design replicas for a little extra "bling"
If you get a skull/neck fracture from a 5 point, at that speed, a oem belt and airbag will not fare any better IMO.
On a side note, though rarely used in HPDE's, but an important consideration is arm restraints, to prevent arm loss or injury due to a rollover. (window netting is another choice. Lately the pros are using right-side body/arm nets as well. You can see that Andrie has one in his latest video posts.
If you get a skull/neck fracture from a 5 point, at that speed, a oem belt and airbag will not fare any better IMO.
On a side note, though rarely used in HPDE's, but an important consideration is arm restraints, to prevent arm loss or injury due to a rollover. (window netting is another choice. Lately the pros are using right-side body/arm nets as well. You can see that Andrie has one in his latest video posts.
SaberX said:
The basal skull fracture is primarily an issue whereas the body is restrained securely in a race seat and 5/6 point harness, but the inertia of a dramatic high G deceleration continues to propel the head + helmet combination forward unabated to the point whereas a critical baseline skull fracture occurs. The simple makes-sense solution is to minimally restrain the helmet, which is essentially what everyone is now doing in order to curtail this particular accident scenario- basically smacking a wall or vehicle head-on at speed.
Pro Racing invests tremendous resources into keeping their personnel safe. The big picture is that safety equipment such as seats and harnesses and helmets are simply hardware. Real occupant safety takes years of time, research, experience, tragedy, and a lot of money. Head restraints like a Hans Device, are really just the latest resultant from this long standing effort in modern motor sports.
Some guys will say that they have been racing for years and "never had a problem without one". Others say it's a limited scenario. Still others I've read bought one straight away. I am of the opinion while there are never any guarantees on a race track (an inherently dangerous environment) at any level or in any conditions, and it is hard to put a price on occupant safety. How much is your life worth? Keeping in mind this only has to happen once to be kind of a problem.
The best anyone can hope for with the limited personal funds available outside of commercial racing is "the best you can do and hope for the best". Installed and used properly, you will definitely be safer with a comprehensive occupant restraint system in your vehicle. That includes seats, harnesses, head, arm, window netting, etc.. it is hard to argue that point (which would you rather smack the wall with at 120 ?), and the added protection of having the head restraint obviously appeals to common sense after looking at the data.
While they are relatively expensive (expect to pay in the range of $700+ minimum for a Hans Device) - even at the lowest levels of SCCA racing I've read posts whereas people have had to shelf racing this year because rules are now requiring them per rules and they didn't have the funds available for the mandated equipment. My point being, this isn't flash they are here to stay.
All in all, if you're already using restraints then I would say pony up for one as soon as you can.
Besides head restraints, another issue with using a 5 point harness without a rollbar is that your upper body, head and neck are locked in position such that if the NSX rolls over your head and neck are vulnerable to roof collapse.
My understanding is that you should not use a 5 or 6 point harness without a rollbar and racing/sport seats which are located lower giving you more head room. An alternative (especially if you are tall) is to removed the seat cushion at the track and substitute a 2 inch piece of foam, or similar.
For HPDE, being 6 feet tall, I decided to use the stock 3 point seat belts and I lock them tightly in place. I (and about 50% of Porsche instructors I work with) use neck collars - for what ever they are worth.
My understanding is that you should not use a 5 or 6 point harness without a rollbar and racing/sport seats which are located lower giving you more head room. An alternative (especially if you are tall) is to removed the seat cushion at the track and substitute a 2 inch piece of foam, or similar.
For HPDE, being 6 feet tall, I decided to use the stock 3 point seat belts and I lock them tightly in place. I (and about 50% of Porsche instructors I work with) use neck collars - for what ever they are worth.
Re: Decisions, decisions
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18729
To complicate things even further, if you put in a harness, you have to ask yourself the question, do I need a rollbar/full cage? OLDE GUY brings up a very common argument against full harnesses without a cage. But there are counter points to that belief too, which Andrie has argued successfully. Do a search; the thread is probably 3+ years old.
Unfortunately, nothing's as simple and universal as the answers we like to spout off on these forums. And that leaves you, my friend, with compromises to weigh. Good luck.
SaberX, have you seen this thread on 5 pt harnesses? If not, I hope it changes your mind about a 5 pt versus a 6 pt.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18729
John @ Microsoft stated the issue pretty well. For your situation specifically, I'll add this: Almost everything in motorsports is a compromise and very individual to the driver and the car. So, the general easy answer (which costs us nothing) is to tell you in no uncertain terms that you should spend $835 on a HANS device or equal if you're going to install a full harness. And the corollary to that is if you're not willing to spend that money, a full harness can possibly do more harm than the stock belts/air bag simply because the torso is restrained and the head, which is not, will snap forward and try to fly off your shoulders. However, a counter question might be, "how close to the steering wheel do you sit (meaning, would you likely have the air bag to cushion/restrain your head)?
To complicate things even further, if you put in a harness, you have to ask yourself the question, do I need a rollbar/full cage? OLDE GUY brings up a very common argument against full harnesses without a cage. But there are counter points to that belief too, which Andrie has argued successfully. Do a search; the thread is probably 3+ years old.
Unfortunately, nothing's as simple and universal as the answers we like to spout off on these forums. And that leaves you, my friend, with compromises to weigh. Good luck.
>>I (and about 50% of Porsche instructors I work with) use neck collars - for what ever they are worth.
With all due respect, anecdotal evidence is worthless in safety research. Crash testing has shown these collars increase loads by a small amount - not enough to cause concern, but the truth is the small weight they add to the head and neck increases the risk of injury in an impact.
Think about it - you can compress these foam collars with your fingers, a force of under 10 pounds. In an impact your head and helmet will put over 1,000 pounds of force into the foam, and it does not have the strength to counteract these forces.
Use a foam collar for comfort issues - it firms up the helmet/shoulder interface and can reduce helmet bouncing. But don't think it is a substitute for a real head and neck restraint.
CAVEAT - I work at HANS Performance Products, inventor and world wide marketer of the HANS Device, the leading form of head and neck restraint. I'd be happy to answer any more questions about these items, either on this forum or by telephone. You can reach us toll free at 888-HANS-999.
With all due respect, anecdotal evidence is worthless in safety research. Crash testing has shown these collars increase loads by a small amount - not enough to cause concern, but the truth is the small weight they add to the head and neck increases the risk of injury in an impact.
Think about it - you can compress these foam collars with your fingers, a force of under 10 pounds. In an impact your head and helmet will put over 1,000 pounds of force into the foam, and it does not have the strength to counteract these forces.
Use a foam collar for comfort issues - it firms up the helmet/shoulder interface and can reduce helmet bouncing. But don't think it is a substitute for a real head and neck restraint.
CAVEAT - I work at HANS Performance Products, inventor and world wide marketer of the HANS Device, the leading form of head and neck restraint. I'd be happy to answer any more questions about these items, either on this forum or by telephone. You can reach us toll free at 888-HANS-999.
I agree: the final decision on safety equipment is a compromise. I would think that it depend where the driver is on the continuum of beginning Driver's Ed to SCCA racing. I think that until one is a Solo driver a good hemet is sufficient although I once saw a Porsche 911 Turbo driver roll his car over twice with an instructor. The turbo had great integrity and they walked away with only bruses. That put a big damper over the entire DE group! I also know two instructors who have walked away from bad accidents and said they will only instruct beginners.
With Porsche Club DE when you advance beyond Solo (white) group you are going quite fast and you notice that many cars have rollbars and the drivers use mostly 5 point harnesses. Up to now Hans devices are rare.
It has been 12 years since I did a little SCCA racing in a SpecRacer Renault. If I were to do SCCA now, I would defintely get a Hans device - from what I saw, there are so many accidents.
Personally I (at 64 years) am becoming anxious about driving my NSX in the Porsche instructor's group without a rollbar and a 5 point harness - most everyone in that group have those. I have had some close calls (like a front wheel coming 75% off the spindle and fluid being dropped immediately in front of me X 3) and feel that I may be running out of luck. I really don't want to damage my "baby" or ME! I may down size to a small race car with all the safety equipment - maybe even a Hans. I am an Olde Guy, it seems.
With Porsche Club DE when you advance beyond Solo (white) group you are going quite fast and you notice that many cars have rollbars and the drivers use mostly 5 point harnesses. Up to now Hans devices are rare.
It has been 12 years since I did a little SCCA racing in a SpecRacer Renault. If I were to do SCCA now, I would defintely get a Hans device - from what I saw, there are so many accidents.
Personally I (at 64 years) am becoming anxious about driving my NSX in the Porsche instructor's group without a rollbar and a 5 point harness - most everyone in that group have those. I have had some close calls (like a front wheel coming 75% off the spindle and fluid being dropped immediately in front of me X 3) and feel that I may be running out of luck. I really don't want to damage my "baby" or ME! I may down size to a small race car with all the safety equipment - maybe even a Hans. I am an Olde Guy, it seems.
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I've read everything here with much interest hoping to hear something new - it turns out there is nothing new under the sun, but thousands of opinions.
I've had the opportunity to talk to several pro drivers and they all agree on a few things:
1) Arai makes the most comfortable helmets (you can find lots of reviews of bike helmets online that agree with this too!) But just look at what the GT guys wear (you know, the guys who drive stints) - Arai!
2) Hans Devices go with 5 points - if you're spending the money on a cage (no harnesses without cages) include this in the cost, if you can't afford it, look to not having 5 points or what can you afford with 5 points and a cage? (Miata?)
3) I just bought a 944 T (2.8 T by Fiorano) full cage, 2 Momo Racing seats, fire bottle, etc. its much cheaper than crashing my NSX and besides, if I do crash it I'll hopefully walk away - something I can't say about the NSX
and I'm not such an old guy!:wink:
I've had the opportunity to talk to several pro drivers and they all agree on a few things:
1) Arai makes the most comfortable helmets (you can find lots of reviews of bike helmets online that agree with this too!) But just look at what the GT guys wear (you know, the guys who drive stints) - Arai!
2) Hans Devices go with 5 points - if you're spending the money on a cage (no harnesses without cages) include this in the cost, if you can't afford it, look to not having 5 points or what can you afford with 5 points and a cage? (Miata?)
3) I just bought a 944 T (2.8 T by Fiorano) full cage, 2 Momo Racing seats, fire bottle, etc. its much cheaper than crashing my NSX and besides, if I do crash it I'll hopefully walk away - something I can't say about the NSX
and I'm not such an old guy!:wink:
I had heard others make this claim, so a few months ago, when I was shopping for a new SA2005 helmet to replace my SA95, I purposely tried on Arai helmets as well as Bell, G Force, Impact, and others. I found that the Arai helmets were much too small and tight (one, that was allegedly my size, I couldn't even put on). I found that the Bell helmets had the best fit and comfort (snug but not painful). Perhaps your experience will be different... or perhaps not.Red said:
Again, one more data point indicating the need to try on helmets in order to find the one that fits best...
Spent today at a number of race shops around Orange County. Most impressed with Sube Sports in Huntington Beach. Wealth of knowledge all things racing. Also, The Racer Shop in Redondo Beach is top notch Ferrari restoration shop and retail store. You should see their garage and the cars they are working on!!! I had other experiences, not as favorable, at other stores.
The jury is in - after trying on a number of helmets from all the major manufactures I have purchased a Bell K-1. Not only comfortable, but at a reasonable price.
I was left with the following impressions:
1. Try on everything. Amazing the differences in fit and feel.
2. Prices are the same everywhere, including on-line.
3. Buy from a shop that actively races themselves. Who better to give you the honest truth.
4. Buy what you need based on your type of driving.
5. I will end spending a small fortune before I am done.
Thanks for input and enjoy the ride.
The jury is in - after trying on a number of helmets from all the major manufactures I have purchased a Bell K-1. Not only comfortable, but at a reasonable price.
I was left with the following impressions:
1. Try on everything. Amazing the differences in fit and feel.
2. Prices are the same everywhere, including on-line.
3. Buy from a shop that actively races themselves. Who better to give you the honest truth.
4. Buy what you need based on your type of driving.
5. I will end spending a small fortune before I am done.
Thanks for input and enjoy the ride.
FWIW, here are three considerations to keep also in mind.
While fitting comfort is key, ease of removing the helmet is equally important. For example, my Shoei helmet is easy to put and fits perfectly but removing it is almost like tearing my ears off ......... and I am not the only who complains about this issue with the Shoei.
Quality does matter if you will be using your helmet quite often and especially on hot days. Arai, Bieffe, Shoei are amongst the best. I have not been impressed by the quality of the comparably priced Simpson helmets.
Finally, if you plan to communicate with another passenger/instructor - something more common nowadays in HPDEs, see how easy it will be to slide/fit the ear piece. You will be amazed at what contortions your ear may go through .........
While fitting comfort is key, ease of removing the helmet is equally important. For example, my Shoei helmet is easy to put and fits perfectly but removing it is almost like tearing my ears off ......... and I am not the only who complains about this issue with the Shoei.
Quality does matter if you will be using your helmet quite often and especially on hot days. Arai, Bieffe, Shoei are amongst the best. I have not been impressed by the quality of the comparably priced Simpson helmets.
Finally, if you plan to communicate with another passenger/instructor - something more common nowadays in HPDEs, see how easy it will be to slide/fit the ear piece. You will be amazed at what contortions your ear may go through .........
Re: Hrant, you forgot
to tell them to get the NSXCA and Comptech stickers on the helmet. Fit is fine, but cool is priceless. :tongue:
to tell them to get the NSXCA and Comptech stickers on the helmet. Fit is fine, but cool is priceless. :tongue:
Re: More helmet blather
Just in case you haven't heard enough already
http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16186
Just in case you haven't heard enough already
http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16186
