OK guys I am thinking about the Racing Brake upgrade for my car, but after reading a bunch of threads here it looks like you guys go through a lot of pads/rotors at the track. This upgrade is 2K, if I get this and track the car am I going to be buying more rotors after a few track events? That's a lot of money, is this wise for me to even do? How much savings is there when you keep the hats and just swap the rotor? No one seems to be able to give me pricing on replacement rotors on a two piece system.
question for trackers
- Thread starter TURBO2GO
- Start date
The price is there on RB's site... $181.46 for the replacement ring. The one piece rotor - complete is $125.08 ea. So even if replacing just the rotor rings, there is no cost advantage to the two piece. Now, supposively the two piece will last a bit longer.
I just went ahead and bought one piece all the way around as it was half the price and when I have to replace them it will still be cheaper to replace the whole rotor.
Rotors should last a season or two, maybe longer depending on pads and how many events, etc.
I just went ahead and bought one piece all the way around as it was half the price and when I have to replace them it will still be cheaper to replace the whole rotor.
Rotors should last a season or two, maybe longer depending on pads and how many events, etc.
Yes, you are, but I assume that the cost of the upgrade is mostly for calipers that won't get replaced. However...
What, exactly, are you trying to accomplish with the upgrade? Is it for looks? (If so, if the looks are worth the money to you, go for it.) Is it for performance? (Braking performance is usually limited mostly by your tires.) Is it to reduce a particular problem you're having? (And if so, what, exactly?) Or is it just because someone said they think it's a good idea, without really giving any kind of justification for it?
I don't know about this system, but with another brand of two-piece rotors that I've used, the entire assembly was $250, the outer ring was around $200, and the hardware to attach it (which was recommended for replacement) was around $20, so the savings from replacing the outer ring rather than the entire assembly were minimal.
If you track your car a lot, you're going to go through a lot of pads and rotors, no matter what setup you've got. I was using two-piece rotors but I've mostly gotten away from them; they cost around 2.5 times as much and lasted about 50 percent longer, so it wasn't worth it. FWIW, I have the stock calipers, along with some cooling ducts to the front. 12,000+ actual track miles and counting (and that's just on my NSX, not on the other cars I track).
If you are using street tires or even stock size RA1, I would suggest even Pather plus + stock size 2 pieces rotors + Motul 600 fluid works wonder... It will take you a while to "graduate" into more stickier tires and more aggressive brake compound.
I'm not a race car driver, nor I considered myself good, after 4 yrs of tracking, I've been always like probably the fastest 5 cars in any event I've been to at my local track. I finally upgrading myself into bigger and stickier R compounds (nt-01), and on last event, I just realized I need more aggressive pads...
Your experience might vary as my local track isn't too hard on brakes, (I noticed the CA guys are more anal on brakes upgrade, probably just the fact that the track temp is higher all year around.)
If you don't mind swapping brake pads and rotors for track day, I found it's the most effective on time and equipments. Once you bed them in, you could use the same sets of pads and rotors for 6-10 track days.
BTW, the 2 pieces rotors is a good equipment to have; not only it last longer and have more consistant braking power, as it saved me quite a bit of brake fluid... (which adds up at $12 a bottle
)
I'm not a race car driver, nor I considered myself good, after 4 yrs of tracking, I've been always like probably the fastest 5 cars in any event I've been to at my local track. I finally upgrading myself into bigger and stickier R compounds (nt-01), and on last event, I just realized I need more aggressive pads...
Your experience might vary as my local track isn't too hard on brakes, (I noticed the CA guys are more anal on brakes upgrade, probably just the fact that the track temp is higher all year around.)
If you don't mind swapping brake pads and rotors for track day, I found it's the most effective on time and equipments. Once you bed them in, you could use the same sets of pads and rotors for 6-10 track days.
BTW, the 2 pieces rotors is a good equipment to have; not only it last longer and have more consistant braking power, as it saved me quite a bit of brake fluid... (which adds up at $12 a bottle
)
Or else they're more into the bling bling. :tongue:
As noted above, I've used two-piece rotors, and they do last longer (they still crack, too, but they last longer before cracking). Whether they are worth the extra money, though, is a different question. And they never saved me any brake fluid; I just flush the fluid at the start of the season, and the brakes are fine, no additional need for fluid.BTW, the 2 pieces rotors is a good equipment to have; not only it last longer and have more consistant braking power, as it saved me quite a bit of brake fluid... (which adds up at $12 a bottle
I like to save weight. Especially unsprung rotational weight. There is a 3 pound saving per setup with the 2 piece versus single piece. My NSX is on a diet so every little bit counts to me.
I also, hate to admit it, but I do think the 2 piece looks a lot better and want it for that reason too.
I went ahead and ordered the 2-piece for now, mainly based on a lot of good reviews on the RB setup. Thanks for the info though, it was very helpful. I suppose I will be replacing discs and keeping the hats at some point, but I am not a track junkie like you and that may not come for a long time.
Frankly at the ALMS races talking to other members they all looked at me like I was crazy when I said I was thinking of tracking a 2005. I may do an event or two, but probably get a more dedicated track car. Not having insurance on what is now a 115K investment to me is not worth the fun. Maybe a cheap Miata will do well.
I've been there... My situation is a little better though, mine is only a $30k nsx (or less
). I bought a $3k miata for track purpose and thuns out.... then I realized the money I need to put into the miata as fun to drive on track at nsx level will be way more money, on mods, specifically.I ended up driving a miata daily and now my nsx became "almost" a track car.
OR, it could get all snow balled into something like my buddy did.... (His miata is faster than my nsx and without trying, turns 1s faster than me)
Well, did I mention the miata is more expensive than my nsx?
Dave - youre wacked.
That is all I have to say.
That is all I have to say.
Dave are you covered with insurance doing what you do? If something happens you all could be screwed. Did you see that video posted recently of some guy that lost control and slammed into like 3 other cars? Its not just me I have to worry about but others too. Do you not worry about that?
I think this is a reasonable expectation. Consider that pads and rotors are disposable items for cars that are tracked and if you don't go through them at an accelerated rate then you're not really pushing the car or yourself.
IMHO, the trade-off in performance vs. cost is worth it. I'll tell you what though, once you try it you won't ever go back. :wink:
+1 on getting a miata for a track car.
They're only 3K for a decent car, and it's the perfect car to learn on -get your feet wet, or advance yourself as a driver:
50/50 weight distribution
Front engine - rear drive
Upper and lower A-arms front and rear (proper suspension -like NSX)
Very neutral car, will understeer or oversteer depending on your inputs.
Beginners and Advanced drivers will both benefit from tracking a miata. I've had 3 of them and reccomend them to everyone who wants to better themselves as a driver.
Plus the parts are super cheap -spares!
$3,000 - Car
$1,500 - Coilovers
$500 - Hard Dog H1 roll bar
$500 -pads, rotors, SS lines, fluid
$50 - engine, tranny, diff fluid.
$5,550 - you have a track-ready miata to beat up on and learn on
They're only 3K for a decent car, and it's the perfect car to learn on -get your feet wet, or advance yourself as a driver:
50/50 weight distribution
Front engine - rear drive
Upper and lower A-arms front and rear (proper suspension -like NSX)
Very neutral car, will understeer or oversteer depending on your inputs.
Beginners and Advanced drivers will both benefit from tracking a miata. I've had 3 of them and reccomend them to everyone who wants to better themselves as a driver.
Plus the parts are super cheap -spares!
$3,000 - Car
$1,500 - Coilovers
$500 - Hard Dog H1 roll bar
$500 -pads, rotors, SS lines, fluid
$50 - engine, tranny, diff fluid.
$5,550 - you have a track-ready miata to beat up on and learn on
thoughts on stock miata you mentioned, unless you put in serious money modifying the car, you are going to squeeze yourself into novice group without holding up someone in HPDE. I would think one would learn a lot more if there're couple "buddies" hanging out together at the track, or even start joining the conference race. At my local track, stock output miata with minor mods are usually rolling road blocks.
however, with the novice groups, you will have a hard time carrying the momentum into corners...
Yes I think about it. I also have 3 friends who have written off their cars on the track who have received full value for those cars from their insurance companies. I have 0 friends who have written off their cars on a track who have not been successfull at getting insurance to cover it. As my policy is written right now, my car would likely be covered too. That said, the companies are rewriting the wording of the policies, so I wouldnt be surprised if it all changes. This applies to drivers education only obviously.
But yes, of course I worry about it. I think that NSXs are terrible choices for track cars. Not because they're not great ON THE TRACK (theyre amazing IMO), but they're aluminum. Count on any track mishap being a major deal.
Id have a dedicated track car if I had room to keep it hassel free. I dont.
In the meantime I minimize the risk as much as I can by properly choosing the days I track. My being dilligent about tech. By keeping a cool head when Im out there and by always driving below 9ths. Ive run late on a corner a few times, and had some white knuckle moments holding the throttle through those turns, but by trying to be smart about the whole thing I think Ive avoided the mistakes that seem to result in many people stuffing their cars.
The main thing is just be cool and smart and have no ego out there.
If you're in the novice group, theirs a reason for it. -the same reason for buying the car in the first place -to improve your craft as a driver.
If you are more experienced, you will be able to drive a miata in the more advanced classes. *Classes usually go by driver talent/awareness than outright car speed. That's why you also have idiots in the novice group with really fast cars. Yes some groups wont let a 100hp miata out on the track in the 'unlimited/expert' class, but you will definatly not be in novice. Besides, you're working on car control and your craft as a driver, not ultimate lap time around a track. You learn on the miata and apply to everything else. So when you do jump in a more powerful car, you will be faster and more in control than if you just jumped in that car off the bat.
But will a Miata be of much help in learning to drive the NSX better? Ultimately I want to know my NSX well. They are such different cars. How much of what you learn can transfer over? I am sure the cars behave 100% differently.
Dave
I think what Canadian Dave said is sound advice.
There is nothing wrong with tracking your NSX to learn and become better in it. At the same time, sure, you have a lot of money put in to your car so there is a need to worry. Just be sure to run with groups that are well organized in your area that proceed with safety in mind first. After that, just heed Dave's advice and you will have a blast and become a better driver.
I think what Canadian Dave said is sound advice.
There is nothing wrong with tracking your NSX to learn and become better in it. At the same time, sure, you have a lot of money put in to your car so there is a need to worry. Just be sure to run with groups that are well organized in your area that proceed with safety in mind first. After that, just heed Dave's advice and you will have a blast and become a better driver.
With street-track pads, I have found that one-piece front rotors, properly bedded, typically last 800-1200 actual track miles, two-piece fronts last 1200-1800, and one-piece rears last 8000+.
You can do the math to figure out how many events that works out to. (For example, you typically put on 150-200 miles in a two-day event with 80-100 minutes of driving sessions per day.)
So do I, especially this part (emphasis added):
BioBanker said:
Not really. You haveto apply things a bit differently from car to car, but their's no reason you shouldn't benefit from seat time in any car.
Since the miata is 50/50 weight distribution and a very well balanced car, it responds to you inputs perfectly. NSX is a very balanced car, has a bit more polar energy in the rear of the car from the engine being behind you, so you should easily be able to gain from tracking a miata.
Thats an average of 112-119 mph Ken. You must be quoting your numbers from Road Atlanta. :biggrin:
back on topic...
Put the one piece rotors on and buy better pads-- and lots of them.
Turbo,
It sounds to me like you haven't tracked your car yet. As such, the only brake upgrades I would recommend are better pads (i.e. Hawk HP Plus, maybe Blue since your supercharged) and better fluid (i.e. Motul).
Until you've done quite a few track days, have become addicted, have the appropriate skill level, and are going to move up to R-compund tires, start braking real late, and otherwise trying to squeeze every fraction of second out that you can - you won't need more than that. Even then my suggestion would be to move up to a Hawk racing compound (like DTC-60 on the front and Black on the rear) and more-religious flushing of fluid.
Expensive big brake upgrades and such are probably not necessary unless you're getting into competitive events that are several laps in length (where the previous setup is the weak spot because you're boiling brand new fluid) or you're Mr Enduro on track days (sworn off cool-down laps and refuse to come into the paddock between sessions).
On the other hand, I've seen how you like to spend money on aftermarket parts.
Maybe a 4-wheel Stoptech or Brembo Indy kit is what you're looking for. Unless you're a cheapskate it will have to be the Brembo Indy kit ($9000 to have the same brakes as a McLaren F1 is the only logical next upgrade for your car). :wink:
It sounds to me like you haven't tracked your car yet. As such, the only brake upgrades I would recommend are better pads (i.e. Hawk HP Plus, maybe Blue since your supercharged) and better fluid (i.e. Motul).
Until you've done quite a few track days, have become addicted, have the appropriate skill level, and are going to move up to R-compund tires, start braking real late, and otherwise trying to squeeze every fraction of second out that you can - you won't need more than that. Even then my suggestion would be to move up to a Hawk racing compound (like DTC-60 on the front and Black on the rear) and more-religious flushing of fluid.
Expensive big brake upgrades and such are probably not necessary unless you're getting into competitive events that are several laps in length (where the previous setup is the weak spot because you're boiling brand new fluid) or you're Mr Enduro on track days (sworn off cool-down laps and refuse to come into the paddock between sessions).
On the other hand, I've seen how you like to spend money on aftermarket parts.
Maybe a 4-wheel Stoptech or Brembo Indy kit is what you're looking for. Unless you're a cheapskate it will have to be the Brembo Indy kit ($9000 to have the same brakes as a McLaren F1 is the only logical next upgrade for your car). :wink:
^agreed with everything you said, except:
IMO $9,000 is a waste of money for the Brembo Indy kit. You can get a much better Brembo racing line monoblock caliper let alone a Performance Friction (company used in NSX JGTC GT500 and 300 champions -from FactorX) for less than the Indy system.
IF you haveto go with a BBK (for bling factor or as mentioned above), just do Brembo (GT or Titanium Dave) or Stoptech.
If you feel like spending $9k to have current-spec racing applications on your street car, theirs better options than indy.
$0.02
Stoptech or Brembo GT or Titanium Dave's Brembo F40 front, Lotus rear systems are more than adequate.On the other hand, I've seen how you like to spend money on aftermarket parts.
IMO $9,000 is a waste of money for the Brembo Indy kit. You can get a much better Brembo racing line monoblock caliper let alone a Performance Friction (company used in NSX JGTC GT500 and 300 champions -from FactorX) for less than the Indy system.
IF you haveto go with a BBK (for bling factor or as mentioned above), just do Brembo (GT or Titanium Dave) or Stoptech.
If you feel like spending $9k to have current-spec racing applications on your street car, theirs better options than indy.
$0.02
Except the part where I was being sarcastic. :tongue:
Stuntman, I'm no expert, and I don't race; but I have to say I had only driven in novice once in my life.... I'm not saying if you are Able or not capable enough to be in expert group, I'm just saying if stick with what your mods listed, that said miata will definately holdiing up someone some where, It's not fun for both "the road block" and the guys you holding up.
I've been in expert group in a miata w/those mods without any problem. The car will have cornering speeds as high (or higher) than anyone out there. Then the higher HP cars go by on the straights with no problem.
If you're 'holding someone up' in the corners in a miata w/those mods, and you have decent tires, it's not the car's fault. -which is why you have the car in the first place to learn to drive it at its limit.
hmmm, this will probably an un-solved argument, in theory, you were right... Obviously, we are tracking in different tracks too, so the conditions could be different. (I had not driven a miata on track, so I'm just guessing either)
If you let by someone in the straight, how would you be able to carry the high speed into the corner? And how would you call it fun that you have to let off the throttle in every passing zone??
