Proper Coolant Temperature and Camshaft Life!

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I came across this while doing research on whether or not I should go with a colder thermostat like a 160F.

http://www.vincihighperformance.com/LS1 TECH AND TUNE PAGE .HTML

Have you ever tried to find what proper coolant temperature is for most automotive engines? There are a lot of people who think they know, but it is difficult to find specifics, even in textbooks. We know we want the intake air to be as cold as possible (for best power) because cold air is denser (there are more oxygen atoms per cubic foot). The coolant temperature, however, is a different matter. The internal combustion engine changes chemical energy stored in gasoline into heat energy that is focused on the piston tops. If the cylinder heads and engine block are too cold, they will absorb much of the combustion heat before it can be used to push the piston down the cylinder. If the engine gets too hot, engine lubricants can break down, as well as overheating of the intake charge can lead to detonation, etc.

It turns out that coolant (usually a 50/50 mixture of coolant and water) has some fantastic properties that are ideal for use in engines. With a properly pressurized cooling system, coolant will not freeze until –30°F, and it won’t boil until +270°F (new oils don’t start to break down until well over 270°F). With these characteristics, engine designers have decided that engines should operate at approximately 210-215°F. Why, you ask? Well, it has to do with operating the engine at a high enough temperature to boil water out of the oil after the engine is cold started. If you have dew on the grass, it is certain that you have water in your oil, as the crankcase is open to atmospheric pressure! You can either remove the water by draining it out the bottom of the oil pan (remember the oil floats on water) or run the engine long enough and hot enough to boil the water out of the lubrication system. Years ago, coolants weren’t as sophisticated and engines were run at 165-180F, but the oil was changed every 1000 miles or so. That’s why many old timers think engines should run at 165-180F. Have you ever noticed that Ford doesn’t put temperature marks on their gauges? They just mark C for cold and H for hot and write “normal” through the center. If you hook up a scan tool to a GM, you will often find that the gauge reads much lower than the coolant temp sensor. That is because they know most drivers don’t understand how hot an engine should run.

So what does this have to do with camshafts? Many enthusiasts erroneously think that the colder their engine runs the better! If they are not running the engine hot enough to boil the water out of the oil, the oil becomes contaminated and the lifter/cam lobe interface is the highest load point in the engine. Engines running too cool can contribute significantly to camshaft and lifter failure. Think about it: What good does it do to use the most expensive synthetic oil and then run the engine so cold that it is contaminated by water vapor??!! Another point, piston manufacturers’ piston-to-wall clearance recommendations assume you will be running the fully warmed engine at 200°+F. Run the engine too cold, and you could see some scuffed pistons because the cylinders had not expanded enough to provide clearance.

If your engine will only run its best at the drag strip with the engine at 165°F, you probably have too cold of a spark plug heat range and you are probably jetted way too rich! If you keep the engine hot (not the intake charge), you will be using more of the heat energy in the gasoline to make power instead of just heating up your block. It does take “tuning know-how” to run an engine at 200-210°F, but you might be surprised how well and how long it runs when you do!! One final point - running a computer managed engine at 165°F compared to the factory 210°F will often cost you as much as 4 MPG. The reason for this is that the computer thinks that the engine is not off the “choke cycle” and it is still putting out a rich mixture! Check the science on this and don’t pay attention to the “old wives tales” of the past. Materials and lubricants are much better and different today than they were in the past!!
 
http://www.hondata.com/techthermostat.html

Thermostat Information It is very important to use the correct temperature thermostat in your cooling system, as the water temperature plays an important part in closed loop fueling operation.
Many people think that running a colder thermostat will keep their engine from over heating or that it will give some performance gain. This is incorrect and will just keep the engine from properly warming up. The engine should be between 185 and 200 degrees when fully warm.

-not as in depth, but we have been trying to deter our customers from buying low-temp thermostats for years
 
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I have the HKS Camp2 on my 2005 NSX 6 speed. On a night of about 15C (59F) ambient temperature my car runs between 87-89C (189-192F). Today it was about 28C (82F) ambient outside and my car while stopped in traffic was running around 102C (215F). While driving it was around 96C (205F). So overall I think we have nothing to worry about as Honda got it right.

IMG_0596.jpg
 
Thanks for the very interesting post Batman. I have a lot of reservations though. First, I also wonder about this source of the info about temp requried to boil water vapor off. I'm very skeptical of that. In the "old" days of the 60's we changed oil every 3-7k just like today. I don't remember the actual numbers, but various mags like hot rod and car craft did build and dyno tests in almost every issue. As i recall anyway, dropping to a 165 thermostat ALWAYS increased power 10 hp or so on 350-ish cube motors. We all drove cars with these thermostats and moisture in the oil was NEVER once mentioned in the magazines or by the drag racers themselves. And i totally disagree with the plug heat/fuel mixture comments. We all experimented with both of these as we HAD to do our own seat of the pants tuning. Yes we did run a little richer than today, but i see that as a good thing. If memory serves, we did not have to change plugs for a thermo change. I was not a pro racer, so i can't talk for them, but i believe we all felt the increased HP was from intake temp only, mostly in the manifold itself and that combustion temps in these V-8's anyway, was not changed much if any. But that was always a question as to whether the chamber was cooler and whether that was a help or a hinder but didn't really care. And we did mess with ignition timing big time. And of course the NSX engine may not correlate to those engines, but my guess is that it will.

Having said all that, i do agree that Honda got it right of course for the stock engine and that with a temp drop the stock UCU will likely have a fit dealing with the temps out of spec, so i wouldn't dare do it without dealving into every parameter that the UCU measures. I would have done this myself long ago if i had those skills. But this temp situation is of large interest to those with aftermarket stand alone UCU's. I plan to build a motor soon that will likely need a stand alone and I WANT THAT 8 HP !, assuming of course it is available. Do we know what the early N/A Realtime and other racers know? I'm sure Shad could answer this in a couple of sentences. I"ve been listening for this data for 17 years. Will subsribe to thread. Thanks again Batman, keep it going!
 
This truck racer probably has WAY more experience than I, at least on his LS1's, but his extrapolation that his LS1 valvetrain failures are due to water in the oil from colder thermos just seems like something we should try to verify from other sources before we take it to the bank for our engines.

I built a couple of engines for late model dirt track racers in the 60's. I think we used 185 thermos, but i know there where a lot of racers who didn't use a thermo at all. I don't recall a rash of valvetrain failures.

Not meaning to denegrate anyones data, just being a responsible skeptic and passing on my antidodal piece of the pie.
 
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