Please Help! Passenger Window Electrical issue - Won't go up

[nh_nsx]

Hey Guys,

I thought I'd start a new thread to my old one as the problem has turned out to be a wiring/electrical one instead of a regulator issue.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103989

The problem is:
The passenger window won't go up from either switch. It will go DOWN but ONLY from the passenger window switch.

What I've done:
Gone through the troubleshooting guide in the manual starting on page 23-262.
I've used the wiring diagram (23-262) to bypass the switches completely to make sure one of them wasn't causing the issue.

After a ton of reading and troubleshooting I have found cause of the isssue I am having with my passenger window.
The problem is that when the switch is in the up position I'm only getting about 9.5 volts across the motor. Referring to the wiring diagram again on 23-262 I ran a jumper from the blu/red (pin #2) to ground and BINGO, I get ~12v and the window goes up.
The problem appears to be some issue with the BLU/GRN (ping #3 - essentially running back to the drivers swich and then on to ground from there) wire coming out of the passenger switch dropping voltage somewhere.

What I need:
Does anyone know where this wire goes from the window switch? I'd rather not rip all the harnesses apart if I don't have to. I can't seem to figure it out from the service manual. Would the Electrical Troubleshooting Guide contain this information? If so, where can I buy that?
Also, I' don't know if it's related but my power door locks seem to be intermittent as well.

I've already spent a lot of time on this so ANY guidance or siggestions would be GREATLY appreciated!! I've already missed out on 2 BEAUTIFUL weeks of driving! :-(

Thanks a LOT guys!!

-Randy

 

[Briank]

I would ohm the blue/red and blu/wht to ground then up stream to blu/yel and blu/grn to ground. If blue/yel or blu/grn is not a good ground then go to the drivers door and check the blu/yel and blu/grn to ground. If you still have a problem then you need to replace the drivers door passenger window switch.

 

[swerve2007]

befor you rip it all apart, replace/check the window relays.

 

[comtec]

Yes the power door locks are probably related. Check for a loose/corroded ground connection on G401 and G402. Manual page 23-31 and 23-33 show what they look like (in the circles).

 

[MANIACura]

Had this same issue. It's been about six months so I can't remember off the top of my head the exact color of the wire. My problem ended up being inside the passenger switch itself. Looked like I was losing voltage but it was actually a bad ground. All the wires would ohm out good but still very low voltage. When you open up the switches themselves there are little round pucks or contact pads on the ends of the "rocker" arms. One of the little pads had come loose (still attached) but terrible contact. You couldn't tell by looking but the meter showed it (good voltage on the metal part of the arm but low voltage on the contact pad itself where the current has to pass through). I pulled the switch apart and used a punch and hammer on the back side to tighten contact pad to the arm. Works like a champ now. I also had this exact thing happen on my Honda Accord and my Acura Legend except they were both on the drivers side switch. Real easy fix just follow the path of the voltage and fix where it drops.

 

[nh_nsx]

Thanks Everyone!

I believe I've completely bypassed the switches using jumper wires across the connectors but I'm going to double check that.

I'm leaning toward a potential issue with the g401/g402 ground, especially considering the power door locks are flaky as well. Where is this located and what is the best way to get to it?

One more data point that may or may not be related. This winter the car alarm went off a few times when I unlocked the drivers door. It's been working fine for the last month or two but I wonder if there is some connection here...

Thanks Again!
-Randy

 

[comtec]

G401 is located behind the left kick panel by the fuse box and G402 is behind the right kick panel.

 

[nh_nsx]

GREAT!!

Thanks!

..and the quest continues..

 

[Briank]

Since the gound connection is shared between the up and down circuits and you are only having a problem with one direction it is unlikely it is causing the problem. Looking at the ETM G402 and G401 are connected together so if even if one was loose there would still be a ground.

 

[comtec]

Randy,
Did you try bypassing the "Main" on\off rocker switch on the driver door? Just jumper both sides together.

 

[Briank]

Randy,
Did you try bypassing the "Main" on\off rocker switch on the driver door? Just jumper both sides together.

The "main switch" switches the ground from G402 so if it was bad the window would not go up or down.

 

[nh_nsx]

I believe I've effectively bypassed the Main switch and both window switches with jumper wires so I think Im coming back to this being the issue:

"The problem is that when the switch is in the up position I'm only getting about 9.5 volts across the motor. Referring to the wiring diagram again on 23-262 I ran a jumper from the blu/red (pin #2) to ground and BINGO, I get ~12v and the window goes up.
The problem appears to be some issue with the BLU/GRN (ping #3 - essentially running back to the drivers swich and then on to ground from there) wire coming out of the passenger switch dropping voltage somewhere."

The fact that the power windows and the alarm have been flaky though is very suspect. I'm going to try and follow this BLU/GRN wire back from the passenger's door back through the right kick panel as that seems a likely path. I can't seem to find exactly where it goes in the service manual. Is there something in the service manual that I'm missing that would show where this wire goes?

Thanks again!!
-Randy

 

[nh_nsx]

Edit:

I meant Power DOOR locks and alarm are intermittent...

Thanks!

 

[comtec]

The "main switch" switches the ground from G402 so if it was bad the window would not go up or down.

Only if the switch was bad enough to create an "open" which he doesn't have since it works in the down position. There is more stress on the motor going up then down so the 9.5 volts apparently will operate it in the down position. He is not getting the ground potential necessary for full battery voltage so he either has a partial open somewhere or a parasitic device in the chain.

 

[nh_nsx]

When I measured it I had 12 volts going to the motor when I pressed the DOWN button but only 9.5 volts going to it when I pressed the UP button.
I then removed the switch and ran jumpers to the appropriate pins with the same results.

I ran a jumper from the blu/red (pin #2) to ground and BINGO, I get ~12v and the window goes up.

Seems to me that is HAS to be something to do with that BLU/GRN wire on it's trip back to the drivers switch and then on to ground.

So the mystery is:

Where does that BLU/GRN wire go from the passenger switch and is there some wiring diagram I can use to follow it back?

Thanks!
Randy

 

[comtec]

If you think it is the blue/green wire that's bad, that would be easy to check. The blue/green and the blue/yellow just go between the two switches.

Disconnect both the blue/green and the blue/yellow from both switches. Connect your VOM to both ends of the blue/green and see what the resistance is through the wire. Then check the blue/yellow. The conductors should be equal length/size so the resistance should almost be the same.

 

[nh_nsx]

Great idea!
I'll try to do that tonight!

thanks!

 

[comtec]

Let's start over since i don't know exactly what you have done.

At the Driver door switch
1.Take a voltage reading between pin 4 and 9. This is your battery voltage.

w/driver door switch pressed to up
2 Take a voltage reading between pin 10 and 11. should be battery voltage.



At the Passengers door switch (driver door switch pressed to up)
3.Take a voltage reading between pins 1 and 2. should be battery voltage.
4.Take a voltage reading between pins 6 and 7. should be battery voltage.

 

[nh_nsx]

Here's the latest:

I plugged in both switches and ran a jumper wire from the passenger side switch directly to the drivers switch essentially bypassing the BLU/GRN wire and VOILA! The window goes up and down from either side.
That sent me on a quest for the path of the BLU/GRN wire to find where it was making a poor connection. I removed the glove box and checked it to that point and it was fine. I ended up at the left kick panel, located the BLU/GRN wire there and was able to wiggle it around a bit. BINGO, the passenger window is now working from both sides again.
I bought some contact cleaner and dielectric grease and will remove the lower panel on the drivers side so I can hopefully access the connector and clean it all up. I'm hoping that will fix it for another 17 years and maybe also help with the intermittent door locks and alarm issues.

Then all I have to do is reassemble most of the dash and doors of my car! :frown:
Good thing I have a weekend coming up!
Sure will good to be able to drive it again though!!

Thanks!
Randy

 

[comtec]

Hey Randy,
I remembered someone else also had this problem. They had a problem with their windows and mirrors not working and when they moved the wiring in that same location everything started working.
This may be a problem that more people will have so if you can let us know what you find and throw in some pics you may save others from the headache you have been through.

Good Luck