Hey everyone I found this site browsing for a radar detector and found that this was a very well established site. I was just interested in your opinion on what would be a good sports car for me. I would like it to be availible for most of the year. I live in Pittsburgh so I do recieve some snow. I am currently looking for a 3000GT vr-4 or a WRX for around 10-15,000. I have a limited knowledge or turbo engine, but a moderate knowledge of a basic engine. Do you have any other suggestions on what other cars may fit my parameters?
Please Help Choosing Sports Car
- Thread starter YfzinJay
- Start date
IMO, I would go WRX. I have never been a fan of the 3000GT's, even in VR4 form. The WRK however I do like and was even considering as a daily. I was going to get a '05 WRX Waggon as I liked being able to have the space of a small SUV in a nimble package. Wanted to put by road and mountain bike in the back and hit some trails.
I guess it depends on if you need the car for other hobbies other than driving. I have an IS300 that works pretty well and I hear it is OK in the snow. It is not really a sports car but it is pretty sporty. They handle very well, are RWD, have decent power, can easily and relatively cheaply be boosted, and look pretty nice. They are a little underpowered stock (mine is stock) but they feel pretty good. I bought a bike rack for it since I did not get the WRX and it fits my needs. You can get an '02 5spd for around $15k if it is a little higher mileage.
I would think that the WRX is lighter and has as much mod potential as the VR4 so, in theory, it should handle, stop, and go faster.
An 88, 89 M3 is also in your price range and that is a hell of a car. Getting a little old as far as years go, but I would LOVE to have one of those. They are more to maintain than a Japanses car, and due to the age, it will take more of chunk out of your wallet, more often. But you will not be able to buy more performance out of a car than one of those E30 M3 IMO.
You could probably eek a mid 90's E36 M3 too. Heavier than the E30, but arguable nicer inside, with more torque, and a newer body. Not as high on the cool factor as an E30, but still very nice. It will be hard in your budget, but you can do a lot with those cars.
Good luck.
HTH
Jeff
I guess it depends on if you need the car for other hobbies other than driving. I have an IS300 that works pretty well and I hear it is OK in the snow. It is not really a sports car but it is pretty sporty. They handle very well, are RWD, have decent power, can easily and relatively cheaply be boosted, and look pretty nice. They are a little underpowered stock (mine is stock) but they feel pretty good. I bought a bike rack for it since I did not get the WRX and it fits my needs. You can get an '02 5spd for around $15k if it is a little higher mileage.
I would think that the WRX is lighter and has as much mod potential as the VR4 so, in theory, it should handle, stop, and go faster.
An 88, 89 M3 is also in your price range and that is a hell of a car. Getting a little old as far as years go, but I would LOVE to have one of those. They are more to maintain than a Japanses car, and due to the age, it will take more of chunk out of your wallet, more often. But you will not be able to buy more performance out of a car than one of those E30 M3 IMO.
You could probably eek a mid 90's E36 M3 too. Heavier than the E30, but arguable nicer inside, with more torque, and a newer body. Not as high on the cool factor as an E30, but still very nice. It will be hard in your budget, but you can do a lot with those cars.
Good luck.
HTH
Jeff
I would go for WRX, my uncle (nsxdreamer2's dad) got a 3000GT VR4, and he had transmission replaced 4 times under warrenty. now the car is out of warrenty, still have problem getting into gears when cold.
WRX's tranny isn't great either, but as long as you don't abuse it, it should be ok.
as for the E30 M3 that Hiroshima mentioned, I wouldn't touch it if I don't have another 15k to spend on maintence for this car. they're GREAT cars, but most of the good ones becames garage queen now.
WRX's tranny isn't great either, but as long as you don't abuse it, it should be ok.
as for the E30 M3 that Hiroshima mentioned, I wouldn't touch it if I don't have another 15k to spend on maintence for this car. they're GREAT cars, but most of the good ones becames garage queen now.
I don't think $15,000 could buy any decent condition IS300.
M3 will be great, but for snow, you must have some decent snow tires, even with that, rear wheel drive is a handfull for most people. (READ FUN for us driving maniacs.)
The WRX and 3000 GT VR4 is two polar animals... My dad had a 96, and it still parked alongside my nsx, so I can tell you a thing or two on the car.
First, the bad things:
Even we haven't have any stranged situation, we had 3 transmissions already. My dad doesn't not do hard launches nor shift speedy and bang into gears; nor slipping clutch. Everytime the dealer announced to us that we need new tranny but we did not noticed any problem.(It could be the dealer's attempt to scam extended warranty money!!) Other than that the car held up pretty good.
Now back to topic vs WRX.
Torque: VR4 had all the torque available before 3k rpm. but horsepower runs out a little as it approaching red line. (A free flow exhaust and intake will take care of that.) WRX does have turbo lag but the punch comes in a little later.
GAS Mileage: Believed it or not, with the low end torque available readily, the VR4 is the one that zip less gas at my whole household. ie: My dad doesn't drive like a manuiac.
Turning: Both cars understeer nasty in stock form, WRX had the upper hand here with at least a better steering. I always refer the VR4 having a truck steering. Light and inaccurate. and yes, you will feel the weight everywhere.
interior: VR4 had infinity system, leather and guages whereras WRX have the standard econo box stereos. Correct me if I'm wrong, WRX doesn't have any electric seat adjustment, VR4 had auto fore/aft adjustment on driver's side only. So not much there. WRX got a good size trunk, and useable rear seat. VR4 will be good for kids, petite ladies (by asian standard), or dogs/cats. Trunk size is not bad for a hatchback.
VR4 already had good 4 piston brakes up front. If you are going to track the car, some suspension mods and light weight rims could be the start.
One thing I have to mention, if you tested drive them before, you will not forget how heavy the VR4 clutch is, I'll not recommend to any female or if this car is going for any girl to drive. (I'm not sexist, but they will get he-man legs after a while, guaranteed.) Probably one of the heaviest clutch effort in OEM trim.
hope this all help
M3 will be great, but for snow, you must have some decent snow tires, even with that, rear wheel drive is a handfull for most people. (READ FUN for us driving maniacs.)
The WRX and 3000 GT VR4 is two polar animals... My dad had a 96, and it still parked alongside my nsx, so I can tell you a thing or two on the car.
First, the bad things:
Even we haven't have any stranged situation, we had 3 transmissions already. My dad doesn't not do hard launches nor shift speedy and bang into gears; nor slipping clutch. Everytime the dealer announced to us that we need new tranny but we did not noticed any problem.(It could be the dealer's attempt to scam extended warranty money!!) Other than that the car held up pretty good.
Now back to topic vs WRX.
Torque: VR4 had all the torque available before 3k rpm. but horsepower runs out a little as it approaching red line. (A free flow exhaust and intake will take care of that.) WRX does have turbo lag but the punch comes in a little later.
GAS Mileage: Believed it or not, with the low end torque available readily, the VR4 is the one that zip less gas at my whole household. ie: My dad doesn't drive like a manuiac.
Turning: Both cars understeer nasty in stock form, WRX had the upper hand here with at least a better steering. I always refer the VR4 having a truck steering. Light and inaccurate. and yes, you will feel the weight everywhere.
interior: VR4 had infinity system, leather and guages whereras WRX have the standard econo box stereos. Correct me if I'm wrong, WRX doesn't have any electric seat adjustment, VR4 had auto fore/aft adjustment on driver's side only. So not much there. WRX got a good size trunk, and useable rear seat. VR4 will be good for kids, petite ladies (by asian standard), or dogs/cats. Trunk size is not bad for a hatchback.
VR4 already had good 4 piston brakes up front. If you are going to track the car, some suspension mods and light weight rims could be the start.
One thing I have to mention, if you tested drive them before, you will not forget how heavy the VR4 clutch is, I'll not recommend to any female or if this car is going for any girl to drive. (I'm not sexist, but they will get he-man legs after a while, guaranteed.) Probably one of the heaviest clutch effort in OEM trim.
hope this all help
polar said:
polar is right. I only mentioned the maintence but should have stressed it more. Nice E30's are garage queens, but you could always build one up :biggrin:. Then again there is that issue of the extra $15k
NSXDreamer2 said:
True it will probably not be perfect but they do exist:
http://www.is300.net/forums/showthread.php?t=246460
http://used-cars.autos.yahoo.com/us...1ODMxJnZ0eXBlPWF1dG9zJm1rPUxleHVzJm1vPUlTMzAw
Here is one with a turbo already in the car (although he wants $18k)
http://www.is300.net/forums/showthread.php?t=244386
BTW: nice overview of the two cars the OP had listed. I learned a lot from just reading your comments on the two.
I found this car close by. Please give me your input I am going to look at it in the near future.$7000 for a '93 VR-4
3000gt VR-4
3000gt VR-4
Don't sports cars only have two seats?
:biggrin:
:biggrin:
Nope. Just look at the McLaren F1.Jimbo said:
The number of seats does not indicate anything aside from number of butts intended to sit.
Osiris_x11
Gold Member, Moderator: Marketplace
Audi A4, BMW 325iX...
hmmm... Menage' trois?!? :biggrin:
Anyways, I use to live in Pittsburgh... the snow/winter isn't that bad that it's imperative to have an AWD car. If AWD is a must, Audi's give a good combo of sport and all-season drivability, especially the A4 1.8T Quattro. Spending about $200-250 more for ECU repogramming & chip, you can gain 65hp! There are also BMW E36 325iX'es (AWD) that are also worth looking into. I recall the Eagle Talon, basically a Mitsu Eclipse, was a nice sporty AWD coupe. I think the 300GT is what I would go w/ as it has stunning looks & feels solid (it's damn heavy!). I didn't know they had the vr-4 that early on. I am unsure of their reliability though.
It's just a question of which takes priority: sport or all-season
Deuce B said:Nope. Just look at the McLaren F1.
The number of seats does not indicate anything aside from number of butts intended to sit.
hmmm... Menage' trois?!? :biggrin:
Anyways, I use to live in Pittsburgh... the snow/winter isn't that bad that it's imperative to have an AWD car. If AWD is a must, Audi's give a good combo of sport and all-season drivability, especially the A4 1.8T Quattro. Spending about $200-250 more for ECU repogramming & chip, you can gain 65hp! There are also BMW E36 325iX'es (AWD) that are also worth looking into. I recall the Eagle Talon, basically a Mitsu Eclipse, was a nice sporty AWD coupe. I think the 300GT is what I would go w/ as it has stunning looks & feels solid (it's damn heavy!). I didn't know they had the vr-4 that early on. I am unsure of their reliability though.
It's just a question of which takes priority: sport or all-season
YfzinJay said:
I am sure there will be no shortage of opinions across any of the car sites on such a broad question. Take them as they come everyone has different perspectives based on their own experiences and objectives/applications with automobiles.
YfzinJay said:
It sounds as-if your criteria here is your looking for a sporty street car/daily driver, and due to the occasional dumping of winter snow in northern PA your thinking is that an AWD platform likely with all season tires might be the best go for year-round accessible sports car performance. This is quite likely a common misconception IMO. Also high availability/reliability with minimal downtime. That's understandable. Unfortunately thou what your not clear on is your driving style, application, performance requirements, mod plans, budget, and other specifics so really in the absence of more info I can only speculate on those points in crafting a reply herein.
YfzinJay said:
You asked for opinions so let me be frank.. a VR4 vs a WRX? Come on... I mean talk about apples and oranges between the owners/enthusiasts themselves and what they do with these things... even just focusing on the technical I don't even know if you can even really compare the AWD systems... and to think you were just asking for reliability too..
Unless your really more concerned about interior/exterior bling or drag racing on a healthy budget my opinion is how hard of a choice could this really be? All around get the WRX. Even a 2.5 RS.. If performance in something other than a straight line is relevant here, even perhaps with an emphasis on overall satisfaction/enjoyment and/or backroad/road course/rally performance is a priority then it would be a whole post just to itemize all the good reasons not to choose the Subaru over the Mitsubishi.
YfzinJay said:
Engines designs aside, there are too many ideas to list, but I will say that at 10 thousand your long past a whole range of better low-cost platforms from a performance assessment including modifications, and fast approaching second hand ITR/S2K/Vette & arguably not that far short of NSX territory there.
YfzinJay said:
$9000 for a 92' with 97K miles on it you've got to be flippin' kidding me. I bought a 94 yellow VR4 with 14K miles on it 9 years ago 2nd hand for $19,200 and even back then the 'exclusive' spyders were already seeing low 30's due to the initial rebate and weak demand. That's pretty ridiculous. That specific car on autotrader realistically is worth tops about five grand, six and some change retail regardless of the stated mods (K&N filter, blow off valve, exhaust, wheels).
Further, I know I'll get flamed on the GT forum for this.. but IMO even with the 90K service and owner assurances on good history/mainteance on this 13 year old vehicle, it still likely would be a fantastic idea if you did purchase a comparable one to budget for further major post-sale maintenance items outside of the normal wearable (shocks, bushings, tires, brakes, hoses) possibly including turbos, and tranny/clutch work which relatively isn't that cheap even pulling used parts. Rather hard to say without inspecting the vehicle in person and knowing more about it and what your really planning on doing with it.
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Usually, but they certainly shouldn't have more than two doors! Otherwise all you have is a high performance grocery gettter mom-mobile. :biggrin:Jimbo said:
John had a point there... I would not buy a 3000 GT VR4 (or maybe any used trubo cars) without driving it and checking it out throughly myself (preferably dealer).
I kind of disagreed with John on the handling part... I had not driven any modified VR4 yet, but I believed there's room to make it perform "like a sport car". Afterall, Puma campain a VR4 for years before the EVO became oh-so popular in the endurance race.
I kind of disagreed with John on the handling part... I had not driven any modified VR4 yet, but I believed there's room to make it perform "like a sport car". Afterall, Puma campain a VR4 for years before the EVO became oh-so popular in the endurance race.
check this e30 m3 out!!!Hiroshima said:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4550226386&category=6131
NSXDreamer2 said:
Surely with enough money anything can be done, but in stock trim the GT was designed from the ground up as a touring vehicle and was thus packed with every feature they could put in as their average owner was over 45. Mine being later further came with the 4WS, ECS, sunroof, active aero, electronic exhaust, and more blingy 18" chrome wheels, being short of the spyder variants the heaviest model at 3,781 lbs wet.
Fun car overall but generally you can't escape it, it's just a very heavy platform with lots of weight transfer and you'll just never get the nimble feeling out of it you need for spirited or track driving. The reliability was non-existant and they even later started to delete features as a result because it was having a significant bottom line impact via warranty claims. The VR4/Stealth was by all accounts a sales disaster, and in there current fiscal crisis Mitsubishi has obviously elected not to repeat there mistake.
Don't get me wrong, the VR4 was a great blingy cruisier for high school and taking trips to the beach being a very stylish ride in 1995 appearing in lots of media/print and demanding boat loads of attention, but fast forwarding to 2005 with young demanding car enthusiasts.. and I feel it's likely best to leave some things where they need to be- like in there short glory days as opposed to trying to now craft them into something which they are not.
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