Philips Gen.III Ballast vs. Philips Gen.IV Ballast

Osiris_x11

Osiris_x11

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Anyone have experience or comments about the two Philips HID ballasts now marketed for aftermarket/OEM-retro kits?!? :confused:

The 3rd generation ballast has 1-piece design (igniter + ballast) whereas the 4th generation is now 2-pieced, again. The latter is also much slimmer for more versatility in installs. A wholesaler of HID components said he notices a bit more 'intensity' in the produced light w/ the Gen. III ballast.

Philips LVQ-212 (Gen. III) Ballast
Model: LVQ212 – L300
Specifications:
DOT, ECE Approved
Input Voltage: 9-16V
Start Voltage: 23KV
Normal Current: 3.2A
Normal Voltage: 13.2V
Output: 35W
Maximum Input Current: 20A
Operating Temperature: -40C - +105C

XD-RB_lrg.gif




Philips XLD 145 Ballast (Gen. IV) Ballast
Model: XLD 145
Specifications:
SAE, ECE Approved
Input Voltage: 9-16V
Only 9mm thick
IEC 60529 water & dust proof test
PIN 50021 Rotten Test
DIN 51604
Auto power off function in case of accident
Two piece ballast and igniter

PBXLD145_lrg.gif
PBXLD145_xlrg1.gif
PBXLD145_xlrg2.gif
PBXLD145_xlrg3.gif
hella-gen4-ballast.jpg
 
I dont think you can go wrong with either one since its phillips but I have the earlier type that is one piece and have had it now for 6 years and it still works great. Mine are mounted right under the flip light covers.
 
The gen 4 has the seperate ignitor which is in it's own housing that fits onto the D2S bulb. However this square larger seperate ignitor piece can't fit a lot of projectors without modification because it can't grab the D2S bulb like in projectors like the S2000, TSX, TL etc... this gen 4 is usually found on the BMW and mercedes vehicle for their projector.. and their projector is not even worth using.

The Gen 3 one that you posted is actually made by Hella with a phillips sticker over it... it has the D2S cap cut off and replaced with plugs for used in the aftermarket hid kit industry. There's a safety issue with 25,000 v jumping across those plugs but that's why all hid kits are basically junk. Those connectors are only used for the rebased hid bulbs made by some oversea company and leave the high voltage exposed without the thicker black insulation around it.

If you plan to use this with an hid kit, your only option is the gen 3 ones which are actually discontinued from Hella. The gen 4 ballast (also made by hella) are designed to fit a D2S bulb not those aftermarket rebased ones.

They both put out the same light output.. ALL factory oem hid ballast are the best quality over those aftermarket junk... and they are all required to put out the same power 25,000v 35 watts to the D2S, D2R hid bulbs found in oem vehicles. They just come in different size and shape.. some older ones has intergrated ignitor and ballast while some are seperate...

The other thing why they are going to the seperate ignitor and ballast setup is.. the real dangerous high voltage output is after the ignitor and the shorter the distances from the ignitor to bulb the safer it is, especially in an accident.. with the ignitor right on the bulb, it's as close as it gets. The power wire from the ballast to the ignitor is one that you can extend but you shoudln't extend the thick high voltage power wire (gen 3 thick black wire) any longer then 6".

Best Regards,
Larry
 
concise...

LittoDeViL/Larry, thanks for the many insights! :cool:

To get closure on a simple topic that has myself still a bit perplexed: HID bulb types...

This is how I view the classification:

D2S (for OEM HID projectors): no mask on bulb-capsule (projector-headlamp)...
D2R (for OEM HID reflectors): "mask" on bulb-capsule to prevent some emitted light from being misdirected/'wasted' (reflector-headlamp)...

d2s0jk.jpg
d2r3gb.jpg


D2S or D2R bulbs are then re-based for various headlight assembly fittings: 9006, 9005, H3, H4, etc...

Re-basing occurs in Southeast Asia, generally. There aren't statutes/laws dictating xenon/HID aftermarket installation. Great attention must be paid to identifying a particular bulb-type after re-basing to confirm authenticity. Philips is the only OEM xenon bulb supplier, as I've heard. They produce their HID bulbs for the Asian markets as D2S or D2R, due to legalities. Then wholesalers sell the bulbs to individuals who fabricate the bulbs for aftermarket HID conversions, ie. rebasing.
 
Re: concise...

Yep, the D2S is used for oem projector hid housings while the D2R are for the reflective hid housings. the D2S outputs about 3200 lm while the D2R outputs 2800 lm. The lowe rrating is due to the coating on the bottom of the bulbl to reduce glare. You can scrape off the coating with a blade or something.. however they have different notches so they don't directly fit into one another if your using them for oem applications unless you file the other notch int he right direction.

As far as rebasing goes, sometimes philips bulbs are used to rebased.. such as for 9006 application and etc. But most of the time the bulbs are not even made by philips but by an aftermarket manufactor over sea that does the whole rebasing part and nothing of it is geninue philips. Some of the higher quality hid kit has philips or hella ballast but not their bulbs. There is NO real geiniue philips rebased bulb in the market..and there's a lot of fause advertising info in the hid kit world as well.

Some application slike for H1 or H3.. arin't even phiips bubl because there's no way to rebase somethign for such a small opening that was designed for halogen.. so they usually redesign it and do the whoel thing themself over sea.

I work with a lot of these hid lighting for my work and my own business so if you have any questions, feel free to ask away :)

Philips and Osram are the OEM hid bulb suppliers. However I like philps more because Osram has a slightly redish pinkish tint to them when new even though they put out the same color temp and output. :)

Best Regards,
Larry
 
Some clarification: The ~25 kV high voltage is applied only when starting the arc inside the HID bulb (generated by the ignitor). After the arc is started, the voltage across the lamp is between 50 and 100V depending on the age of the bulb. So the risk during an accident is probably the same with either ballast type.
 
BryanZublin said:
Some clarification: The ~25 kV high voltage is applied only when starting the arc inside the HID bulb (generated by the ignitor). After the arc is started, the voltage across the lamp is between 50 and 100V depending on the age of the bulb. So the risk during an accident is probably the same with either ballast type.
Click to expand...

Yep, that's correct. However anytime the condition is interrupted such as in an accident that is related to the headlights or bare limit insulation on most hid kits, the hid ballast will try to re-ignite the hid bulb by sending it the high voltage again. Usually after a couple times depending on the brand of ballast, it will typically shut off as a safety feature, but during the time it's trying to re-ignite the bulb is the dangerous part. That's why hella, valeo and a few other companies workign with OEM are going to a D1S setup where the ignitor is part of the bulb or like the gen 4 hella ballast you've seen on bmw and a few other vehicles.

Best Regards,
Larry
 
Bulb base, connector-plug from ballast...

Ok, when getting a D2S bulb made by xyz, the ballast has to have D2S-connector accordingly... but:

What's difference between Philips 6000k D2S HID bulb and Philips 6000k 9006 HID bulb other than their connector plug and the connector from ballast?

Will the Philips 6000k D2S HID bulb fit the OEM halogen-projector or it has to be rebased to 9006 halogen (OEM fitment)?

Everyone is assertive in saying D2S, which is understood. But, the real matter is the bulb's base... D2S require D2S connector from the ballast/igniter, which aren't commonly available. However, a D2S rebased to 9006 requires the common 9006 connector from the ballast which is readily available. Understand... :confused:

So Philips D2S bulb users, what base does you HID bulb have? What type of the connector-plug do you have on your Philips ballasts?

Thanks... :redface:
 
Re: Bulb base, connector-plug from ballast...

Osiris_x11 said:
Ok, when getting a D2S bulb made by xyz, the ballast has to have D2S-connector accordingly... but:

What's difference between Philips 6000k D2S HID bulb and Philips 6000k 9006 HID bulb other than their connector plug and the connector from ballast?

Will the Philips 6000k D2S HID bulb fit the OEM halogen-projector or it has to be rebased to 9006 halogen (OEM fitment)?

Everyone is assertive in saying D2S, which is understood. But, the real matter is the bulb's base... D2S require D2S connector from the ballast/igniter, which aren't commonly available. However, a D2S rebased to 9006 requires the common 9006 connector from the ballast which is readily available. Understand... :confused:

So Philips D2S bulb users, what base does you HID bulb have? What type of the connector-plug do you have on your Philips ballasts?

Thanks... :redface:
Click to expand...

Only Philips and Osram manufactors the D2S bulbs for facotry hid projectors. Everyone else on here other then Mike Cruz who I did a headlight retrofit for, for his NSX can't use a oem D2S geninue philips bulbs becausae it doesn't fit the 9006 halogen projector inside your headlights. The only exception is the newer NSX with factory hid projectors (non pop up lights) and they would be able to use the D2S bulb.

D2S blubs requires the D2S socket which is MORE Readilyi avaiable then any other hid kit out there because it's used on every single vehicle out there equipped with HID (proejctor or reflector type).

The difference between Philips 6000k D2S HID bulb and Philips 6000k 9006 HID bulb other than their connector plug and the connector from ballast is the fact that chances are good is ther eisn't a real philips 6000k rebased 9006 hid bulb due to the fact that philips 6000k is the ultrion bulb and is too expensive to obtain just to grind and rebase it for a 9006 hid kit.

Any D2S hid bulb wont fit any halogen projector. It's just like saying if a honda key will fit into a bmw vehicle. Not unless you modify and grind and etc to the honda key to make it fit the bmw vehicle. That's exactly what happens to most if not all hid bulbs out there that are rebased from D2S to 9006. And if it's not rebased and is actually made as an hid bulb for a 9006 hid kit, then it's definently not a philips bulb and just an aftermarket taiwan made bulb.

D2S users has the factory ballaste connected to it. Everything else in the aftermarket hid world is junk, hacked up and modify to fit a halogen housing. If you want real hid performance like the S2000, TSX, TL, etc, the only way to obtain it is through an hid headlight projector retrofit which is what I do as my 3rd business, where you take another facotry hid projector and modify it so it fits into your housing. OEM Hid projectors with oem bulbs and ballast will give you the best lighting over ANY hid kit out there and also will reduce the bad image that hid's are getting because of users using the illegal hid kit and sticking them into the halogen housings which weren't designed for the 3 times plus intensity output of the hid arc and cause excessive glare for oncoming and vehicles in front of you.

Best Regards,
Larry
 
making D2S fit OEM projector OR retro-install HID projector?

LittoDeViL said:
The difference between Philips 6000k D2S HID bulb and Philips 6000k 9006 HID bulb other than their connector plug and the connector from ballast is the fact that chances are good is ther eisn't a real philips 6000k rebased 9006 hid bulb due to the fact that philips 6000k is the ultrion bulb and is too expensive to obtain just to grind and rebase it for a 9006 hid kit.

Any D2S hid bulb wont fit any halogen projector. It's just like saying if a honda key will fit into a bmw vehicle. Not unless you modify and grind and etc to the honda key to make it fit the bmw vehicle. That's exactly what happens to most if not all hid bulbs out there that are rebased from D2S to 9006. And if it's not rebased and is actually made as an hid bulb for a 9006 hid kit, then it's definently not a philips bulb and just an aftermarket taiwan made bulb.

Best Regards,
Larry
Click to expand...

LittoDeViL/Larry, thanks. That's precisely what I was after for the most part!

i). Rebased "Philips Ultinon 6000k 9006 HID bulb" is more than likely a fake rebased-HID bulb.

* Would the purple ceramic insulation be indicator of authenticity as well as the metal halides that resemble blood-stain? Or can these too be copied?

The base of the Philips Ultinon HID bulb (D2S) has wording that rebased bulbs don't (ie. due to grinding, new base to fit different applications:

PHILIPS GERMANY
D2S 35W
NOT FOR USE IN GERMANY/USA
E102
85122WX

or

PHILIPS GERMANY
BL-2 K321
Non automotive use only

-&-

ii.) D2S HID bulbs can't fit into '91-'01 NSX projector housing w/o fabrication.

* What needs to be done to the OEM projector housing to fit D2S?

* Valeo or Bosch D2S projector can fit into the OEM housing w/o TOO much fabrication? I don't mind doing a retro-fit as a project eventually.

Philips Ultinon Diagram
 
Re: Bulb base, connector-plug from ballast...

LittoDeViL said:
D2S users has the factory ballaste connected to it. Everything else in the aftermarket hid world is junk, hacked up and modify to fit a halogen housing.
Click to expand...

I've been using the 9006 4100k kit from hid-online.com for over 2 years now and 80,000 miles with absolutely no issues. I've also had one of their kits in my Hayabusa since 2001. Granted they are rebased D2S bulbs but they are extremely high quality. I've never had any issues with either kit. I hardly consider them junk. However the cheaper Asian kits have been known to cause headaches.
 
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