Phase 2: Dynoed my car with Dali-chip

[MvM]

Last week I had my car dynoed when it was still completely stock in the power department.

After that, a NSX-friend of mine installed the Dali-chip in it's very neat ZIF-socket. Following my NMP (NSX Modification Plan), I had my car dynoed again last Saturday.

As promised, I have listed the results below.

Several remarks are in order here.
1) Probably due to weather conditions the Dynojet corrected the measured output on the Dali-runs with 2.5% where the original had a correction factor of only 1.7%. Therefore, inititally the gains with the Dali-chip were looking much higher than they actually are.
2) The MAXIMUM HP on my car with the Dali-chip is NOT higher than with the OEM-chip. However, both Torque and HP are 4%-6% higher between 3000 and 5250 RPM. Between 5250-7000 RPM the gains average out to about 2%-4%.
3) The average Torque-gain with the Dali-chip is 5 Nm. The average HP-gain is 5 HP.


Dynamometer Dynojet 248C Dynojet 248 C
Car NSX NA1 NSX NA-1
Modifications None Dali-chip
Date 28.06.2003 04.07.2003
Barometric Pressure 1022.0 mBar 1022.0 mBar
Vapor Pressure 15.0 mBar 15.0 mBar
Intake Temp. 26.6 Celsius 22.5 Celsius
Correction factor 0.98 SAE 0.98 SAE
Measured Corrected Measured Corrected Torque HP
RPM Nm HP Nm HP Nm HP Nm HP gain in % gain in %
2500 234.1 82.2 228.3 80.2
2750 225.6 87.1 221.8 85.7 238.2 92.0 232.3 89.7 4.7% 4.7%
3000 223.2 94.0 219.5 92.5 238.9 100.6 233.0 98.1 6.2% 6.1%
3250 229.4 104.7 225.5 102.9 244.8 111.7 238.8 109.0 5.9% 5.9%
3500 236.2 116.1 232.3 114.2 251.1 123.4 244.9 120.4 5.4% 5.4%
3750 239.4 126.1 235.4 124.0 252.9 133.2 246.7 129.9 4.8% 4.8%
4000 242.7 136.3 238.6 134.0 254.8 143.1 248.5 139.6 4.1% 4.2%
4250 246.0 146.8 241.9 144.4 259.3 154.8 252.9 150.9 4.5% 4.5%
4500 247.0 156.1 242.8 153.5 258.4 163.3 252.0 159.2 3.8% 3.7%
4750 243.1 162.1 239.0 159.4 255.3 170.3 249.0 166.1 4.2% 4.2%
5000 239.2 168.0 235.2 165.2 253.7 178.1 247.4 173.7 5.2% 5.1%
5250 244.1 180.0 240.0 177.0 258.6 190.7 252.2 186.0 5.1% 5.1%
5500 247.4 191.1 243.3 187.9 258.8 199.9 252.4 194.9 3.7% 3.7%
5750 245.5 198.3 241.4 194.9 254.7 205.7 248.4 200.6 2.9% 2.9%
6000 246.6 207.8 242.5 204.3 260.3 219.3 253.8 213.9 4.7% 4.7%
6250 249.0 218.5 244.8 214.9 260.4 228.6 254.0 222.9 3.8% 3.7%
6500 252.7 230.7 248.5 226.8 262.4 239.5 255.9 233.6 3.0% 3.0%
6750 249.7 236.7 245.5 232.7 257.5 244.0 251.1 238.0 2.3% 2.3%
7000 243.3 239.1 239.2 235.1 250.9 246.6 244.7 240.5 2.3% 2.3%
7250 239.9 244.2 235.9 240.1 243.4 247.8 237.4 241.7 0.6% 0.7%
7500 233.0 245.5 229.1 241.3 233.4 245.8 227.6 239.7 -0.7% -0.7%
7750 225.0 244.9 221.2 240.8 221.7 241.2 216.2 235.3 -2.3% -2.3%
8000 210.1 236.0 204.9 230.2
8200 203.6 234.4 198.5 228.6
Avg 240.7 178.5 236.7 175.5 248.0 184.9 241.9 180.3 2.2% 2.8%
Max. 252.9 245.7 248.7 241.6 262.5 247.8 256.0 241.7 2.9% 0.0%

 

[MvM]

Here is the tabulated data again. Maybe this time is shows up a little better:

Dynamometer Dynojet 248C Dynojet 248 C
Car NSX NA1 NSX NA-1
Modifications None Dali-chip
Date 28.06.2003 04.07.2003
Barometric Pressure 1022.0 mBar 1022.0 mBar
Vapor Pressure 15.0 mBar 15.0 mBar
Intake Temp. 26.6 Celsius 22.5 Celsius
Correction factor 0.98 SAE 0.98 SAE
Type Measured Corrected Measured Corrected Torque HP
RPM Nm HP Nm HP Nm HP Nm HP gain in % gain in %
2500 --- --- --- --- 234.1 82.2 228.3 80.2
2750 225.6 87.1 221.8 85.7 238.2 92.0 232.3 89.7 4.7% 4.7%
3000 223.2 94.0 219.5 92.5 238.9 100.6 233.0 98.1 6.2% 6.1%
3250 229.4 104.7 225.5 102.9 244.8 111.7 238.8 109.0 5.9% 5.9%
3500 236.2 116.1 232.3 114.2 251.1 123.4 244.9 120.4 5.4% 5.4%
3750 239.4 126.1 235.4 124.0 252.9 133.2 246.7 129.9 4.8% 4.8%
4000 242.7 136.3 238.6 134.0 254.8 143.1 248.5 139.6 4.1% 4.2%
4250 246.0 146.8 241.9 144.4 259.3 154.8 252.9 150.9 4.5% 4.5%
4500 247.0 156.1 242.8 153.5 258.4 163.3 252.0 159.2 3.8% 3.7%
4750 243.1 162.1 239.0 159.4 255.3 170.3 249.0 166.1 4.2% 4.2%
5000 239.2 168.0 235.2 165.2 253.7 178.1 247.4 173.7 5.2% 5.1%
5250 244.1 180.0 240.0 177.0 258.6 190.7 252.2 186.0 5.1% 5.1%
5500 247.4 191.1 243.3 187.9 258.8 199.9 252.4 194.9 3.7% 3.7%
5750 245.5 198.3 241.4 194.9 254.7 205.7 248.4 200.6 2.9% 2.9%
6000 246.6 207.8 242.5 204.3 260.3 219.3 253.8 213.9 4.7% 4.7%
6250 249.0 218.5 244.8 214.9 260.4 228.6 254.0 222.9 3.8% 3.7%
6500 252.7 230.7 248.5 226.8 262.4 239.5 255.9 233.6 3.0% 3.0%
6750 249.7 236.7 245.5 232.7 257.5 244.0 251.1 238.0 2.3% 2.3%
7000 243.3 239.1 239.2 235.1 250.9 246.6 244.7 240.5 2.3% 2.3%
7250 239.9 244.2 235.9 240.1 243.4 247.8 237.4 241.7 0.6% 0.7%
7500 233.0 245.5 229.1 241.3 233.4 245.8 227.6 239.7 -0.7% -0.7%
7750 225.0 244.9 221.2 240.8 221.7 241.2 216.2 235.3 -2.3% -2.3%
8000 --- --- --- --- 210.1 236.0 204.9 230.2
8200 --- --- --- --- 203.6 234.4 198.5 228.6
Avg 240.7 178.5 236.7 175.5 248.0 184.9 241.9 180.3 2.2% 2.8%
Max. 252.9 245.7 248.7 241.6 262.5 247.8 256.0 241.7 2.9% 0.0%

 

[matteni]

Just curious - did you reset the ECU between runs?

 

[MvM]

Matteni,

Between the Dali-chip dyno-runs the ECU was NOT resetted.
Of course, when the Dali-chip was installed the battery-power was disconnected and AFAIK that would automatically reset the ECU when you connect the power again.

Question though: Would it be necessary to reset the ECU?

Before the dyno (on Saturday, chip installed on Thursday) the car had been taken up to 140 mph and had travelled about 60 miles.

 

[matteni]

Sorry about the confusion. Reseting the ECU is just pulling the clock fuse for a couple of mins. Some people wonder if resetting between runs would give different results then running 3 times in a row. There has been some discussion if the aftermarket chips loose power over time as the ECU learns and adjusts to them. It would be interesting to see 3 runs with no reset and 3 runs where there was a reset after every run.

That is why I was curious - BTW - good job and thanks for posting these results.

 

[MvM]

Matteni,

No problem.
Next step is the mounting of the Taitec GT exhaust. I plan to do dyno-runs with both the OEM and the Dali-chip with the Taited mounted. My quess is that the Dali-chip will give higher gains with the Taitec than with the OEM exhaust.

 

[dlongo]

Regarding the ECU resetting, here’s some food for thought. My daily driver is a 98 Prelude and this summarizes what is known in the Prelude community about how the ECU can de-tune mods, and a common workaround to prevent the ECU from learning.

http://www.ntpog.org/mods/fifth-afc/ecu.shtml

To summarize:

a) OBDII prelude ECUs learn over time and work to detune engine mods. This has been shown by a numbner of dyno tests.

b) OBDI preludes do not ‘learn’, so resetting the ECU has no effect.

The way to prevent the OBDII Ecu from ‘learning’ is to put a switch in the wire that supplies power to the ECU when the car is shut down. When the switch is off, it’s basically the same as pulling the ECU fuse every time the car is shut down.

The dyno results say this car is NA1, so I’m guessing it is OBDI. I assume the OBDI NSX ecu does not learn either. The ‘learning’ feature is supposed to help with emissions and gas mileage, so it doesn’t make sense to me that Honda would put it in the OBDI NSX but not their other OBDI cars.

It would be specualtion to say how OBDII NSXs are affected by the ‘learning’ ECU based on prelude tests though. Obviously NSXs are different animals. Somebody else can run with that, I’m an OBDI guy.

Regards,
Dave

 

[NetViper]

Can you explain the TQ numbers? Nm?

 

[Larry Bastanza]

dlongo,

I believe NA1 is a 3.0 liter, which came in both ODBI(1991-94) and ODBII(1995-96) flavors, but in this case I think it actually is an ODBI car(1994).

Great info about the ECU.

Thanks,
LarryB

 

[dlongo]

Can you explain the TQ numbers? Nm?

for those who don't speak metric,
1 Nm = 0.738 ft-lb

so the reported average torque increase of 5 Nm = 3.69 ft-lb
and the max torques are

252.9 Nm=186.5 ft-lb
248.7 Nm=183.4 ft-lb
262.5 Nm=193.6 ft-lb
256 Nm = 188.8 ft-lb

Regards
Dave

 

[dlongo]

I believe NA1 is a 3.0 liter, which came in both ODBI(1991-94) and ODBII(1995-96) flavors,
Thanks,
LarryB

Thanks, I looked in the FAQ for changes by year and it does not say when the change to OBDII was made, so I was thinking that it started with the 3.2 engine.

Can the change to OBDII be added to the changes by year FAQ?

Dave

 

[4AU4LIFE]

How long does it take to install the Dali chip?

 

[NetViper]

How do you install a Dali chip?

What is involved? I know nothing about it. Do you order it and then snap it on, or what?

 

[ac011]

You need to install a ZIP socket which you can easly switch back to your OEM chip. You looking at around an hour install time.

 

[MvM]

Netviper,

The install of the Dali-chip is pretty straightforward. The OEM chip is soldered on so you someone who knows how so unsolder the old and put in the ZIF-sockec. Dali Racing sells the Dali-chip and the (good quality) ZIF-socket if you choose that option (you can also buy just the chip). Make sure that you go to someone who knows what he is doing. I guess any good electronic repair shop will be able to change remove the OEM-chip and install the ZIF-socket but you definitely don't want someone who might screw up the ECU-board. It's a expensive part.
After the ZIF-socket is installed it is easy to change chips. The FAQ describes how to remove the ECU here:
http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/DIY/ecu.htm

After the ZIF-socket is installed changing the chips is easy.

 

[4AU4LIFE]

Thanks for the informative post.

 

[matteni]

For those of you reading this post who have superchargers or turbos - check with the maker to see if they support aftermarket chips or require you to run the factory chip or yours.

FYI

 

[NSXGOD]

ECU's and their learning curve

Sorry about the confusion. Reseting the ECU is just pulling the clock fuse for a couple of mins. Some people wonder if resetting between runs would give different results then running 3 times in a row. There has been some discussion if the aftermarket chips loose power over time as the ECU learns and adjusts to them.

Actually, the OPPOSITE OCCURS - this Forum is amazingly good at spreading BS.

The best way to test a chip from anyone (which it appears that you did) is to baseline the car and then pop in the aftermarket chip and go for a drive where you pretend you are your favorite super hero race driver (mine is Paul Neuman since we are about the same age) and THEN put the car back on the dyno an hour later on the same day (too bad it took a week for you to get back there) to see what happened.

That said, MvM's runs are consistent to what we got on the dyno here with an otherwise stock (no headers or cams) NSX and the total area under the curve is where you feel the power gain - not the peak number.

 

[SSMS2000]

This fourm does not spread BS, I think youare full of it. YOU take someones money and you don't ship what you say you will. You don't return emails, I'm not sure how you stay in business. Do me a favor and return my MONEY and everyones MONEY that has not recieved product from YOU