Peeling paint!

[CokerRat]

Okay, anyone want to see a grown man cry... here's my story.

I picked up my '91 red/black NSX in Toronto on Friday. Drove it home to Calgary (about 40 hours of driving, including a few breaks for coffee, gas, lunch etc). GREAT highway car.

Got it home last night. Took it out to wash it this evening and get all the bugs off it.... so... I took it to a pressure wand-wash car wash. And, in holding the wand about 4 inches from the front bumper at a steep angle to blast the bugs off, I blasted the PAINT off! It peeled off in three places. One strip was about 3 inches long, the other two are smaller but just as hideous. The peeled material was like a rubbery film, not the hard enamel I would have expected for paint. Man... one day in the garage and this happens!

I am beside myself. I have blasted off bugs like this in every car I ever owned and never had any problems. The surface underneath is red as well, but a lot lighter in color than the paint color. My first thought was that I'd been oblivious to signs of a repainted car. But the paint is nicely even all over the car, no mismatching panels and no signs of a repaint on any other panel. I've seen people post here that a really good paint job can't be distinguished by the average joe.... that could be the case here.

So I'm wondering:

a) Is the red color underneath the original plastic or is it a certainty I'm looking at original paint from a repaint I don't know about?

b) Has anybody else had this happen? Was I nuts to use a pressure washer?

c) How do I prevent this from ever happening when I get the fascia repainted?

Pics attached. Any advice would be much appreciated....thanks.

 

[bayareansx1999]

looking at the pics you have attached, it looks like there is major orange peel on the bumper... it looks to me that the car has been repainted... under no circumstances would paint fall off like that if you blast it with a compressor... unless you were hella hella close to the paint, then the paint might get blasted off...

 

[Jimbo]

Looks like the orange peel might be compression artifacts in the image.

I do think it's likely your car, or at least the front bumper, was repainted however.

But...

I would never, ever use a pressure washer on a car's paint. Never.

-Jim

 

[Lime Green NSX]

Sorry CokerRat, you must of been quite upset. It looks like to me you blew off the clear coat. Try getting some 2000 grit sand paper and sand down beside it and see if it somes of white. If it does it means you blew off the clear coat. If red comes off then it was painted with enamel. You can pollish out the 2000 with a fine grit pollish, so dont worry about that. Know if you sand out white, and then inner part where you blew off is red, try to sand out the edge marks buy feathering out the clear coat. Atleast a inch, then you could pollish the rest out with a find grit again and you have a very good chance of pollishing it right out. If you break threw the inner part, you will have to get your facia repainted. Know some paint compannies do use a coloured primer. The lighter red could be that. If so you will have to get them to repaint. I would recammend you get your front facia taken off the car so you dont get any over spay on the rest of the car. Good Luck. Sorry to hear.

LGNSX

95 - C36AMG Mercedes
01 - Honda Oddessy
92 - Honda Prelude

 

[DocL]

looking at the pics you have attached, it looks like there is major orange peel on the bumper... it looks to me that the car has been repainted... under no circumstances would paint fall off like that if you blast it with a compressor... unless you were hella hella close to the paint, then the paint might get blasted off...

Actually, what happened is exactly what CokerRat said. The same thing happened to me with my Lexus about seven years ago. I went to one of those high pressure self car washes while on a trip, and used the high pressure thingy about 4-6 inches away from the bumper to get rid of the dead bugs. I had the exact same result, but much worse.

Unfortunately CokerRat, you are going to have to repaint the bumper. That sucks, and I feel for you buddy. Now do your self a favor and throw out that pressure cleaner.

 

[Soichiro]

>>Is the red color underneath the original plastic
No it is the primer. The cars use a red-colored (coloured in Canada primer.

>>Has anybody else had this happen?
Yes, it's been posted here before.

>>Was I nuts to use a pressure washer?
IMO yes. Pressure washers are designed to remove stuff! I would never use this tool on a fine finish. But your previous experience seemed to indicate it was OK, so who knows?

>>How do I prevent this from ever happening when I get the fascia repainted?
Don't use high pressure water to clean your car. Most detailing books warn about this. At the least they can remove stickers etc. and you've seen the worst - they can and do remove paint. And there is no need for them - there are plenty of gentle products to take care of your vehicle. Lot's of good advice in the archives here.

Get the bumper repainted professionally and you will be fine.

 

[docjohn]

Not to sound contradictory but there are two sides to every tale.I have been using high pressure washers on the bumblebee for years with no ill effects.If used properly meaning don't place the nozzle 1 micron from the paint its fine ,also you can use the low pressure setting which means you just don't squeaze the trigger.My experience with peeling paint with the high pressure wash Was with my black rx-7 which had been repainted,and the paint just fell away.That job was done by a cheap shop,so back on topic I would examin the car carefuly to see how much was repainted and ask the dealer why they would skimp on the repainted bumper cover and not tell you!

 

[hlweyl]

Very sorry to hear about the paint! I would have messed my pants!!!

Here's a simple solution to bugs on the front fascia...... take a couple of soaking wet towels and drape them over the front and let that sit for 1/2 hour.... then wash No bugs! No peeling paint!

I've made that a part of my car washing routine for years and works like a charm.

 

[Dr.Honda]

I did the same thing to the mirror of my '92 Prelude years ago. The undercoat was a yellowish color. I don't think that this means your car was repainted previously. I think it happens because the paint dosn't bond as tightly to the primer layer over plastic parts as it does over metal. Sorry to hear of your misfortune.

 

[Soichiro]

>>take a couple of soaking wet towels and drape them over the front and let that sit for 1/2 hour.... then wash No bugs!

This is a great tip - THANKS! I've used all kinds of textured sponges and bug removal solvents that work well too. And for really old, ground in bugs use rubbing compound. Start with medium, then use fine, then a polish and wax (or a one-step product after the fine rubbing compound). This really improved my 12 year old front bumper.

 

[Yawwn]

I'm sorry CokerRat,

The same thing happened to my red NSX a long time ago. Unfortunately, I had to have the front repainted. Luckily, one of my neighbors also owns a red NSX-T, and his family owns a body shop. His brother took care of my car. He filled the holes where the front emblem was, and repainted it so that my car no longer has the Acura symbol. I also had him paint the front crossbar black to give the opening a larger and more aggressive look. he then repainted my top red (it didn't need it... the black was flawless, but I wanted an updated look). On the bright side of things, if you do the repaint, you have the option of changing the look of your car.

Take Care,
J.

 

[CokerRat]

Thanks everyone for the sympathy and advice. Having at least slept on it now and seeing your comments, I'm feeling much better. In retrospect, what really caused me stress was the thought that the car might have been repainted all over and that the car's history might not have been as I had believed. So in that light, I'm actually somewhat happy to hear that this damage is just me being stupid enough to use the high-pressure wash. It means the car is as I believed and somehow that's worth a LOT more to me than the $400 or whatever the fasica repaint will cost.

 

[DocL]

It's good to hear that you feel better about your car Corker.

Now just go out and enjoy. If you fell self conscious about the peeled paint, buy an OEM bra and cover the bumper until it's repaired.

 

[Lime Green NSX]

Well I hope you have a better night sleep tonight CokerRat...
So just get out there and enjoy it, you got it now and it's all yours. So a little paint came off, I used to paint cars for a living, just get the right guys to do the job. I'll give you a little secret to the show car shine. If you get your car painted in base clear, once they have baked the car, let it sit for a day then get them to wet sand the car in 2000 grit paper and re clear it. Once done that get them to 2000 grit it again and then bring it up in a fine pollish then an ultra fine pollish then wax it. I would suggest CAR-Brite ( crystal shine ) that stuff will win you more car shows then you can believe. It is AWSOME!!! If you have the time get them to 2000 your whole car to get ride of any orange peel and do the pollish step I said and then add the CRYSTAL SHINE you will be like a kid at the candy store. Enjoy.

LGNSX

95 C36AMG Mercedes
01 Honda Oddessy
92 Honda Prelude

 

[Soichiro]

Crystal Shine/Car Brite?

Where can we buy the products noted above?

 

[kgb_agent]

Is $400 a typical price for a repaint of the front fascia? (Forgive my ignorance as I am not a bodyshop guy). Also, is there any limit to the number of times when a front end can be repainted? In other words, does a good shop strip, prime, paint, and clearcoat each time...or do they paint on top of paint?

I was out driving last night for 30 minutes and my PERFECT front fascia now has 3 very small rock chips. And I was driving like a granny, too!!

 

[CokerRat]

I was out driving last night for 30 minutes and my PERFECT front fascia now has 3 very small rock chips. And I was driving like a granny, too!!

I can honestly say I know how you feel! Sorry to hear that.

Is $400 a typical price for a repaint of the front fascia? (Forgive my ignorance as I am not a bodyshop guy). Also, is there any limit to the number of times when a front end can be repainted? In other words, does a good shop strip, prime, paint, and clearcoat each time...or do they paint on top of paint?

I'm new to this too but it sounds like you can go either way depending on how bad the existing paint is. I'm going to get some quotes by tomorrow night and I'll post them here. The basic repaint (ie. over the existing paint) was an over-the-phone estimate of $250 (Cdn$) and is an overnight job. Another shop I talked with said he'd never seen original factory paint separate from the primer (meaning it might be a poor repaint job) and if so, he'd have to strip the paint/primer off and redo it. He wouldn't provide an estimate 'til he sees the car but did say he'd need the car for 2 or 3 days. I guess if you sand down to the plastic, prime and repaint with a drying/curing period for each, it would take a while.

 

[Lime Green NSX]

Re: Crystal Shine/Car Brite?

Where can we buy the products noted above?

go to www.carbrite.com



A022 CRYSTAL SHINE®
DESCRIPTION:
A mildly aggressive, highly durable polish that removes light scratches, oxidation and swirl marks, leaves a deep, long-lasting gloss and contains silicone.
KEY FEATURES:
• Pink lotion
• Contains silicone
• Good durability
• Safe for all finishes
KEY BENEFITS:
• Quickly and effectively removes light scratches, oxidation and swirl marks, minimizing buffing time
• Very little product needed, which prevents pads from becoming saturated
• Brings out a deep, rich gloss


HOW TO USE:
High Speed Buffer
1. Start with the roof, and proceed to the hood, trunk and sides.
2. Apply a small amount of product directly on the painted surface.
3. While the product is wet, buff an 2' x 2' area with a polishing pad. Keep the pad flat on the painted surface and buff until product dry, applying light, even pressure. Clean pad regularly with pad spur.

Orbital Buffer, Or By Hand
1. Apply product evenly over painted surface with a moist polishing bonnet or applicator sponge, and allow to dry to haze.
2. Remove residue with a clean, dry bonnet or soft polishing cloth.


• Be sure painted surfaces are cool to the touch before applying product
• Consult the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for complete safety information


And if you like try this one first.






B064 PERFECT CUT
DESCRIPTION:
A mildly aggressive lotion compound that removes light light to moderate scratches and oxidation from all painted surfaces, while leaving a deep, rich gloss & no swirl marks. Especially effective when used with a foam pad.

KEY FEATURES:
• Orange lotion
• Silicone-free
• Body shop-safe
• Generates deep gloss
• Swirl-free
• Citrus fragrance
KEY BENEFITS:
• Buffs easily, and brings out a deep, durable gloss
• Dries slowly, allowing user to thoroughly work surface
• Leaves a swirl-free finish, especially when a foam pad is used
• Very little product needed, which prevents pads from becoming saturated


HOW TO USE:
High Speed Buffer
1. Start with the roof, and proceed to the hood, trunk and sides.
2. . Apply a small amount of product directly on the painted surface.
3. While the product is wet, buff a 2' x 2' area with a polishing pad. Keep the pad flat on the painted surface and buff until product dries, applying light even pressure. Clean pad regularly with pad spur.


Orbital Buffer, Or By Hand
1. Apply product evenly over painted surface with a moist polishing bonnet or applicator sponge, and allow to dry to haze.
2. Remove residue with a clean, dry bonnet or soft polishing cloth.


• Be sure painted surfaces are cool to the touch before applying product
• Consult the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for complete safety information

The compounds you use, should be design for body shop use only. Dont buy the crap in the stores go the profesional. Like a Sikkens or Dupont paint company. They give you what you need.

Cheers!

LGNSX

 

[PHOEN$X]

A question about your front plate bracket

Is that the OEM bracket for the front plate, or have holes been drilled into the nose? Is there an easy way to tell?

Sorry to hear of the damage. I use a industrial strength bug & tar remover to get rid of residue, not brute force.

 

[NSXaholic]

...I went to one of those high pressure self car washes while on a trip, and used the high pressure thingy about 4-6 inches away from the bumper to get rid of the dead bugs...

There are a bunch of do-it-yourself washes in Chicago, where you can lather and then wash the car with what seems like a high-pressure spray. I have used it once, and you can actually adjust the water for high- or low-pressure, although even the low-pressures comes out with a decent amount of force.

Is this the same type of pressure that a wand-wash produces, or does the wand-wash produce a higher force? Shoulde these sorts of wash-centers be avoided? (Fortunately, no incidents with my car.)

Is $400 a typical price for a repaint of the front fascia? (Forgive my ignorance as I am not a bodyshop guy). Also, is there any limit to the number of times when a front end can be repainted? In other words, does a good shop strip, prime, paint, and clearcoat each time...or do they paint on top of paint?

I was thinking of giving my front fascia just a general touch-up, and was quoted it would be approximately $650 - $750 from one the best body shops around here. They indicated they would completely strip it down and repaint.

Regards.

 

[dummy]

Yawwn,

Could you please provide the name/location of your neighbor's body shop that did the repaint of your NSX. I am considering having the front bumper repainted and the black top.

Thanks.

 

[Yawwn]

Yawwn,

Could you please provide the name/location of your neighbor's body shop that did the repaint of your NSX. I am considering having the front bumper repainted and the black top.

Thanks.

Hi dummy,
I am happy to refer you to him. His name is Thai, and his shop's name is T&T Auto Body. You can reach him at his number 408-998-1710. The address is 456 Willow St. right off the Alma exit of Highway 87. Please let him know that his neighbor with the NSX sent you.

Take Care,
J.

 

[CokerRat]

Dr. Lane,

The quotes I got for repainting both the front fascia and the airdam were about 7.5 hrs labour @ ~ Cdn$50/hr and then another $90 for paint and materials. Total cost ~Cdn$460 before tax. This was for all disassembly, sanding down, priming and painting. It's a little more than I was anticipating but not by much. Their comment was that since most of the costs was in disassembly/reassembly and color-matching, the skirt was so easy to do that they would included it at no charge.

Two of the three shops that inspected it believed the front fascia itself had been repainted (but not the hood or fenders), the third wasn't certain but said if it was, they did do a good job on matching it. The most telling evidence is that the skirt is much more sandblasted, to the point the paint has a flat look to it and lots of chips yet the fascia was glossy and relatively few chips. I should have noticed that before.

...and driving it is great therapy.