Paying a private seller across the border...

[slightlyevil]

Im in the process of trying to finalize purchase of my NSX in the USA, but I'm hitting a few roadblocks around getting the seller their money. Obviously I don't expect to be given a car without the seller having the money transferred to them, just as I don't plan on transferring many 10s of 1000s of dollars across the border and leaving with nothing to show for it until it clears.

The restrictions I'm running into on payment types are:

Money Order/Bank Draft/Certified Cheque - 7-12week hold placed on this by sellers bank due to cross border, and amount of cheque. Unacceptable.

Wire Transfer - 72hr hold placed on this by cdn bank

Cash - not a great idea crossing the border with ~30k$ USD in cash... do not want that kind of 'rubber glove' attention.

Has anybody run into these issues and found a way around them? It seems the only way to do it in one trip is if the seller takes a leap of faith and just puts up with the hold their bank places on a bank draft... I'm at a loss somewhat.

 

[swbatte]

When i did it, after we both signed a contract of sale, he sent me the signed ownership and I wired him the money.
You can get a lawyer to do it in trust for you to.

 

[dablackgoku1234]

A way I heard a while ago was you get the person's bank branch information. You call up the branch and talk to the manager and tell him/her about the situation. Ask them if you can wire money to the branch and have it on hold. If the deal goes thru, then release the money to the person's bank account (no holding period). If the deal doesnt go thru, then just reverse the wire.

As for wiring the money from your bank branch to his/her bank branch, you can use XE or go just go thru the bank. XE takes about a week (start to finish) with no hold.

 

[ddonovan]

I got a broker to interact on my behalf. I think he charged me something like $400.00 bucks. He purchased the car himself with my $2,000.00 deposit and contract. He then took care of everthing involved in getting the car up here from Florida including inspections.

 

[slightlyevil]

Great suggestions, I will investigate more today...

I think I'm just never going to be comfortable sending $30k+ somewhere and having nothing really to show for it right away. It's not even that the seller seems untrustworthy - quite the opposite he's been nothing but helpful, but in the same way I don't expect him to hand me the car with no money in his account, I don't think I'll sleep having to wait a week or more between sending that amount of money over a border and actually getting anything...

Irrational sure, but I'm being realistic here.

 

[audax]

Another option:

https://www.escrow.com/solutions/vehicle/index.asp

I've used escrow.com for domain name transfer purchases, but never real goods.

 

[jrnsx]

I did a wire transfer from my bank to his and it only took a couple of hours. Transferred the money at 10.00 in the morning and he had by 1.30pm that afternoon. Although the whole process of getting the car after the wire transfer took awhile, you need to have some trust in the seller . If you get a signed copy of the vehicle transfer you should be okay.

Good luck.

 

[ddonovan]

There is a story like this over on RS where a guy send 40K to a guy to pickup a car for him..., the guy never saw his money or car. I don't blame you for not wanting to do this.

 

[Joy2Drive]

I did a wire transfer from my bank to his and it only took a couple of hours. Transferred the money at 10.00 in the morning and he had by 1.30pm that afternoon. Although the whole process of getting the car after the wire transfer took awhile, you need to have some trust in the seller . If you get a signed copy of the vehicle transfer you should be okay.

Good luck.

+1. I did exactly that. Never met the guy, never saw the car even, all they did was fax/pdf signed ownership and agreement of sale/purchase prior to, and I was comfortable to send the funds. I did get his bank manager information in advance and spoke with him prior to sending out the money. This helps you understand their procedure on holds/wire acceptance fees. I also ask (high level) him to rate their banking relationship, and as long as you are polite and explain why you are asking, you should get some comfort here.

Unfortunately, unless you hire a broker to handle all of these for you, you will have to count on your instinct a little.

 

[Mr. Fuji]

I did wire transfer last week and the seller received the funds in less than 18 hours. No problems at all, but it did involve a lot of trust, and also documentation: Copies of driver's licenses, addresses, and a whole slew of emails. Bottom line from me is: protect youself, and go with your gut.

 

[Tony Montoya]

I'd rather have the title than the car. That's all I know about US car laws.

 

[Jetpilot3]

The only way I'd transfer funds is if I had the seller sign the title and actually FedEX it to me or use a broker. For the $400 bucks its piece of mind!

 

[slightlyevil]

Thanks again all for the great info everyone, I'm considering using escrow.com, but it really is up to the seller in the end what they're comfortable with - I'll see what they say to that if the current solution I have doesn't pan out for us. Worst case scenario I have to spend a night in the US and have a great steak dinner, so really not that bad haha.

 

[LJZ]

All:

As an expat Torontonian (now living in Michigan) if I ever sell my /94 Formula Red, 5 speed (totally stock, under 30,000 miles and in superb condition), I'll offer it first to my fellow Canadian Primers.:smile: I have no problem with a wire transfer from CIBC/Royal/TD/Scotia or BMO! Bizzare that there seem to be so many issues (real or perceived) doing a cross border deal. There really shouldn't be.

Best regards,
Jeff

 

[swbatte]

All:

As an expat Torontonian (now living in Michigan) if I ever sell my /94 Formula Red, 5 speed (totally stock, under 30,000 miles and in superb condition), I'll offer it first to my fellow Canadian Primers.:smile: I have no problem with a wire transfer from CIBC/Royal/TD/Scotia or BMO! Bizzare that there seem to be so many issues (real or perceived) doing a cross border deal. There really shouldn't be.

Best regards,
Jeff

Your car sounds beautiful, and you are now our honorary Canadian friend. You gotta bring that thing up here so we can see it. Come out to Est Fest and hang out with some Crazy Canucks!

 

[LJZ]

Your car sounds beautiful, and you are now our honorary Canadian friend. You gotta bring that thing up here so we can see it. Come out to Est Fest and hang out with some Crazy Canucks!

Thanks! I will for certain see some of you guys/gals this year. I know that Neal/Cindy (alum04) and Brian and Judi (sca037) made it to one of the NSXCC events last year and had a great time. While EstFest date does't work for me (sounds like a great weekend -- wish my wife and I could make it) I hope to make it to the car show in July or the fall cruise.

Jeff

 

[Bram]

Come on Jeff you can make it to Est Fest this year....you can always play Golf.

Bram

 

[nsxtasy]

I'm a little confused on this part:

Wire Transfer - 72hr hold placed on this by cdn bank

Is this a bank where you don't already have the funds? If so, I can understand the need for a hold, on whatever they receive (some form of check, I assume) to clear before they wire out the funds. But if you already have those funds on deposit at the bank for a few days, I don't see why they can't just wire the funds immediately upon your instructions, which you can give them over the phone or fax when you go to pick up the car. No?

 

[MWR01]

The restrictions I'm running into on payment types are:

Money Order/Bank Draft/Certified Cheque - 7-12week hold placed on this by sellers bank due to cross border, and amount of cheque. Unacceptable.

I purchased a US vehicle from Phoenix last year using a bank draft. I used BMO and the draft was written on their US subsidiary, Harris Bank, in $US. That solved the cross border bank problem and the draft was readily accepted by the seller's bank. The title was passed at the seller's bank when the branch confirmed everything was ok, and we dropped the car at the transporters the same day.

You will have to declare the bank draft at the border when you enter the US, since they have that question asking if you are carrying more than $10,000 in negotiable instruments. Have all your documentation with you so you can show what the money will be used for. Otherwise prepare for the rubber glove inspection!

Hope that helps.

 

[type-j]

I agree with the above. When I purchased my car down in florida I had a bank draft made up in the sellers name(same as cash). No problem with customs as I explained it was to purchase a car and the transaction went smooth with the seller and his bank.

 

[NSX-C2]

When I bought my NSX last year from Oregon, I had a certified cheque in the seller's name, and arranged with my personal banker to be available when the transaction is being made. The seller and I went to his US bank, get his banker on the phone with my banker, and the two of them worked on it for 10 minutes or so over the phone, and I drove the car home from the bank.

 

[slightlyevil]

I'm a little confused on this part:


Is this a bank where you don't already have the funds? If so, I can understand the need for a hold, on whatever they receive (some form of check, I assume) to clear before they wire out the funds. But if you already have those funds on deposit at the bank for a few days, I don't see why they can't just wire the funds immediately upon your instructions, which you can give them over the phone or fax when you go to pick up the car. No?

No, the funds are in the account and have been there for a while now in preparation of the purchase - for just this reason. From all the asking and digging around I've done between my personal banks (RBC, and I work for Scotia although not at branch level) it seems that banks have a minimum federally mandated anti-money laundering standard to meet with these things, but some choose to go much further in fraud prevention than others. For instance, Scotia puts a 21 business day hold on north bound cross-border fund transfers, but sending south, there is no hold applied supposedly since as you pointed out, they know the funds are legitimately in the account on their end. Same with a certified cheque - there's no hold applied by my bank, the holds are being applied by the recipient's bank due to it being international, due to the amount involved, and also due to the size of the recipient bank (and therefore the resources at their disposal I guess).

If you ask me it's all quite arbitrary as to how these things go down during a transaction. I've also found out that during a wire transfer there is more than one way to route the money, which will affect the time it takes to clear into the deposit account by 1hr to many hours. So it's something of a crapshoot.

Thanks for the heads up on the bank draft success you had, I will follow up on Monday. I think though most banks treat bank drafts, certified cheques, money orders as fairly similar when it comes to holds - except for a few specific rare exemptions.

Here's hoping it goes smoothly however I end up doing it!