Opinions on the 02'/03' Porsche 911 Turbo

[O-Ace]

What do you all think about new Porsche 911 Turbo? How would you compare it to the NSX?

-Awais

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2001 QuickSilver Corvette Coupe - Not Stock [503 RWHP, 545 RWTQ]

2002 Black Acura 3.2 TL/S

www.RacingFlix.com

 

[TigerNSX]

No offense to NSX onwers, but 996TT seems to be in its own league.
I test drove 996 C2, C4, C4S, and TT. I agree that C2/C4/C4s are comparable to NSX (although they are quite different cars from NSX), but 996TT just blew me away. Its power is stunning.

I wouldn't mind having one as a good compliment to my NSX.

 

[8000RPM]

Obviously the 996 Turbo is a LOT faster than an NSX and is extremely competent. I certainly wouldn't mind adding one to the stable.

One thing to consider is looks/rarity. Some folks may feel that the NSX has sexier / more exotic looks than a 911 Turbo. There are also lots of Boxsters / 911s on the road and the general public can't tell the differences among the different models. So those are factors to consider if they matter to you.

Also, the NSX's low seating position / cockpit view / engine-roar-behind-your-ears are hard to beat.

At the end of the day, you can't go wrong with either choice. You have to ask yourself which car you would prefer to dance with.

In other words, which car lights your fire more...?

[This message has been edited by 8000RPM (edited 09 January 2003).]

 

[O-Ace]

I've never driven a 996 Turbo, so I can't comment on it at the moment. I will be test driving one soon, and will post my thoughts afterwards.

Keep the comments coming folks.

Thanks,

-Awais

[This message has been edited by O-Ace (edited 09 January 2003).]

 

[Joel]

For me, maintenance costs on Porsches alone keeps me away from them. But they are very appealing.

 

[RyRy210]

Went to the auto show today and there were 2 911 Turbos, a silver F355, and an '02 yellow NSX all in the same parking structure... only a few cars apart from each other...

The 911 Turbo is also ALOT more expensive than an NSX, so IMHO it is not a surprise it is a better performing car.

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2001 NSX-T
- Bilstein Shocks
- '02 OEM Wheels

 

[docjohn]

Stock for stock no comparison in accel or grunt,the 996tt is like a video game the shove is addicting,but I am not thrilled with the looks or asthetic qualities.The seats also don't have the combo of comfort and support ours do.The dash is tall and the view of the road in the nsx is better.The sunroof is pitiful vs our targa's.Brakes are also stunning in the p-car.

 

[nsxtasy]

I think people here have described the comparison quite well. The 996TT has much higher levels of performance. However, there are some areas in which the NSX still has an advantage.

Incidentally, some have mentioned the price advantage of the NSX. A new 996TT generally sells for around MSRP, which starts at $117K, roughly 60 percent more than you'll pay for a new NSX ($72-75K). Fortunately, unlike some other 911 models, the Turbo comes fully equipped, so you don't need to pay extra for things like HID lights or metallic paint like you do on the base 911.

 

[Tom Larkins]

Don't forget that a styling change is in the works w/them going back to a round headlight and 993 look. They have a spy shot in "Excellence" magazine. Just something to consider as I liked the older look better.

 

[john576]

O-Ace

When you go to test drive one do yourself a favor and have $117k in your pocket b/c I can guarantee you will NOT want to part with it. I know for certain the 2001996TT is totally sick so guess the 02/03 is the same.

 

[8000RPM]

Originally posted by Tom Larkins:
Don't forget that a styling change is in the works w/them going back to a round headlight and 993 look. ..Just something to consider as I liked the older look better.

Definitely something to consider if one is in the market for one.

I've always felt that the 993 variant of the turbo P-car looked a lot more menacing and aggressive than the 996 models.

 

[00NSX-T]

I have owned a 01 TT and now own a 01 NSX-T. Both are great cars. Email me if you would like to discuss the cars in detail.

Spero

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by 8000RPM:
I've always felt that the 993 variant of the turbo P-car looked a lot more menacing and aggressive than the 996 models.

I've always felt that they look alike to all but the most finicky observer.

If they go back to the 993 look, most folks will never even notice.

 

[Tom Larkins]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
I've always felt that they look alike to all but the most finicky observer.

If they go back to the 993 look, most folks will never even notice.

Your most likley right, although the P guys will notice b/c they don't want anything in common with the panty hose model (boxster) that hard to tell from a 996. I read thats why the makeover is coming.

 

[kinnsella]

Well I have owned both. I had a 99 Monte Carlo Blue (or as my finacee calls its Bling Bling Blue!) NSX-T and I replaced it with a 2001 Silver 996 TT. Each was/is a daily driver.
NSX T

Pros: Shift Quality, Great Clutch, Build Quality, Front Visibility, Throttle Response, Very Nimble, Utterly Reliable, Gas Mileage, Interior Layout - Simple, But Effective, Engine...nothing like that redline!, Great Dealers, Looks, Price, Driver Feedback.

Con's: Braking, Ride Quality, Chassis Stiffness On The T's, Tire Wear And Alignments, Fragile Paint, Weak Acceleration, Poor Rear Visibilily Due To B pillars, Wet Weather Traction, High Speed Stability at 130 mph +, Insurance Costs.

996 TT

Pros: Unbelievable Acceleration...its as fast from 60-120 mph as it is from 0-60 mph, Amazing Grip, Unbeliveable Braking, Ride Quality, Chassis Stiffness, Tire Wear, All Round Visibility, Paint, High Speed Stability, More Interior Room, More Gadgets like Nav etc.

Cons: Price, Build Quality..a few weird gaps in the dash, Cheap Interior Materials, High Oil Consumption, Stiff Shifter, Slight Turbo Lag, Gas Mileage is 11-12mph, Really Awful Dealers, Looks Like A Boxster On Steroids.

I track the 996 TT, it's faster than most fully prepped fast cars.....

Friends often ask me which I like better and I answer them this way. The NSX is a foil (fencing) and the 996 TT is a sledgehammer. I liked them both A LOT, however ultimately I prefer the 996 TT. However you will be happy with either, that I can promise you. I would pick the NSX over a regular 996.

One last thing, my NSX T got a LOT more looks than my 996 TT does....if that's important to you.

Here's a link with pictures of both. http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/Forum16/HTML/000379.html

[This message has been edited by kinnsella (edited 10 January 2003).]

 

[Lud]

I am curious about a couple of your "cons" for the NSX.

1. High speed stability? The only times I've heard that were when someone's car wasn't set up right - usually alignment.

2. Visibility... How tall are you? I've wondered before about the B pillars getting in the way of tall people who have the seat all the way back. I'm average height with the seat a couple inches forward and visibility is great for a sports car.

3. I believe your comment about chassis stiffness is probably more cowl shake than actual chassis stiffness issues. There is more cowl shake on a -T, which can be annoying at times (though still much better than most open-top cars I've been in) but having owned both, the actual stiffness and performance of the chassis is not far off the coupe... In fact the underlying chassis stiffness is what leads to the cowl shake. On a softer car the chassis would dissipate some of that energy.

[This message has been edited by Lud (edited 10 January 2003).]

 

[nsxtasy]

4. Insurance costs. The insurance rates on my NSX are a true bargain. I pay less on it than on my Integra. When I was first buying my NSX, I priced insurance for the NSX and for a Porsche and it would have been more than twice as much

on the Porsche as on the NSX.

 

[kinnsella]

Remember my comments are a relative comparison. The NSX is an excellent vehicle, better than almost anything else out there.

Stiffness: Yes I agree for an open top car, the NSX T is pretty stiff...However relative to the 996 TT Chassis it's a noodle. The 996 TT feels like it is carved from one piece of metal. I never driven a NSX coupe so I can't comment on its stiffness. The Targa roof while nice is definitely a compromise. I would go for a coupe, maybe that dodgy Monte Carlo Pearl Blue 97 that's for sale.....not!

Visibility: I am 5'11", average height and while I found the forward visibility excellent on the NSX, those big B pillars are an obstruction. Visibility straight behind is fine.

Stability: Again relative to the 996 TT, the NSX is not in the same class when it comes to really high speed cruising, it requires many more corrections to keep it straight. However I was not running a stock wheel/tire combo. My car had 215 40 ZR 17 up front and 285 30 ZR 18 in back on HRE rims...maybe this makes difference. Trust me, I had the car aligned every three months, that wasn't the problem. Also I am not talking about running 90 mph on the freeway, more like 140 mph+ type speeds.

I am not bashing the NSX, I loved it. It's a true compliment to Honda that a car that was designed over 13 years ago is still extremely competitive and in fact does many things better than the 996 TT.



[This message has been edited by kinnsella (edited 10 January 2003).]

 

[Joel]

I have to agree with Ken on insurance.

After shopping around and doing my homework, I'm getting an unbelievable bargain on my 94. A LOT less expensive than most. And that's with ONE accident on record (will be cleared in Fall 2003). I can't wait to see how much lower I can get it after an adjustment on my premiums once the accident is wiped off.

For the record, my insurance company is not a broker. It's one of the bigger carriers.

 

[kinnsella]

Unfortunately my driving record isn't spotless. 3 tickets and counting. The insurance is a wash, since the turbo is worth 40% more its a better deal. Though neither are cheap for me.

 

[Lud]

I still feel you are confusing cowl shake and chassis stiffness. The new 911TT chassis is certainly stiffer since it is a much newer design (the S2000 is stiffer than the NSX as well), and it may have more ISOLATION between the chassis and passenger compartment which makes it feel more solid, but I doubt there is truly a night and day difference in actual chassis stiffness. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I'd be interested to see the numbers.

Yes, I've been well into the 130, 140, 150 MPH range plenty of times (including at the track where you go that speed regularly every 1-2 minutes) with various tire/wheel setups on various NSXs. I've also been at speed in a variety of other sports cars for comparison. I think the NSX is very stable with no need for excessive inputs. I honestly could have taken my hands off the wheel at 130+MPH speeds in many situations (though of course I didn't). Basically there was just a lot of wind noise and stuff flying past really fast. The car itself has very little lift at speed unless you altered the rake with your tire/wheel combo (I think the stock coefficient of lift is around 0.05). So I still believe any high-speed stability problems were a function of something about your car's setup.

Some tires tend to pull the car along grooves in the pavement ("tramline") but this is a function of the tire and not the car. I seem to recall that a set of Pirelli P7000s I tried caused the car to tramline really heavily. This is VERY unnerving and makes the car feel unpredictable at high speed even with the steering wheel held steady on a straight road. But again it is the tires, not the car.

I'm surprised you needed to see "through" the B pillars if you are 5'11". That should be behind you in an area well covered by your side view mirrors? I do not have any blind spots when I'm in an NSX. Oh well, I've noticed a lot of people adjust their side mirrors differently than I do. Compared to some sports cars overall, many of which have REALLY bad visibility, I think the NSX is quite good, but it may not be the best.

I understand that you are not bashing the car, I'm just trying to suggest some reasons why your impressions may be different than those of others. I think the Porsche turbo is an awesome car and I would be happy to have one. I'm also not blindly pro-NSX.. in fact I disagree with your "pro" statement that Acura has "great dealers." SOME are indeed great, while some are horrible. I've met both, but I'd be hesitant to characterise an entire brand's dealers based on my experience with just one or two franchises. Auto dealers are surprisingly independent from the manufacturers and so the quality of their service varies accordingly.

[This message has been edited by Lud (edited 10 January 2003).]

 

[kinnsella]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Whether it's cowl shake or chassis stiffness...996 TT is in a different league.

NSX visibility is good for an exotic, but again the 996 TT is better. When changing lanes I like to look over my shoulders as well as use the mirrors...perhaps you don't.

High speed stability again we may be splitting hairs, the NSX is good, but not great.

Either way both are great cars, owning either one is an awesome experience.

 

[O-Ace]

Test drove an 02' 911TT earlier this evening. I'm impressed. The 911T is a beast when it comes to power. It pulled hard in every gear, and the sound of the twin-turbos behind you at wide-open throttle is amazing! It handled extremely well, and the brakes were superb as others here posted. I took it on the tollway, and almost instantly rocketed to 125 MPH. I was surprised at how luxurious the car was. I was expecting very stiff seats and a harsh ride, but this was not the case with the Turbo. The seats were very comfy, and the seating position was friendly. This particular car was lowered 1.5 in. with stiffer springs, but the ride quality was not compromised.

Overall, I think both cars are simply awesome, but if I had to pick one, I'd go with the Turbo

Regards,

-Awais

[This message has been edited by O-Ace (edited 10 January 2003).]

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by kinnsella:
When changing lanes I like to look over my shoulders as well as use the mirrors...perhaps you don't.

I do. And I find that visibility in the NSX for changing lanes is actually better than that of the 996 I drove.

 

[Tom Larkins]

Originally posted by O-Ace:
Test drove an 02' 911TT earlier this evening. I'm impressed. The 911T is a beast when it comes to power. It pulled hard in every gear, and the sound of the twin-turbos behind you at wide-open throttle is amazing! It handled extremely well, and the brakes were superb as others here posted. I took it on the tollway, and almost instantly rocketed to 125 MPH. I was surprised at how luxurious the car was. I was expecting very stiff seats and a harsh ride, but this was not the case with the Turbo. The seats were very comfy, and the seating position was friendly. This particular car was lowered 1.5 in. with stiffer springs, but the ride quality was not compromised.

Overall, I think both cars are simply awesome, but if I had to pick one, I'd go with the Turbo

Regards,

-Awais

[This message has been edited by O-Ace (edited 10 January 2003).]

Question-If you drove one from a P dealer did you ask them or did they mention anything about the 03 model.

Lowered 1.5", is that a factory option ?