Operation Eibach

[DeHaldaswerth]

I'm happy to report that the Eibachs went in without a hitch -- really much easier than I had thought. Its like my Dad always said -- it easy once you know how. The front took me about an hour for driver's side, and about twenty minutes for the passenger, once I knew my way around. The bottom shock mount came out with ease, I didn't really have to do any downward deflection of the suspension at all.

The rears were more of a challenge, but the great info I got here on NSX Prime made it a ton easier -- I can't imagine how I would have done it without this board as a resource. The driver's side took me about an hour, I needed my Wife's help for about 5 minutes to stand on the rotor. The amazing thing is that with just a little extra pressure from my forearms, my wife's weight (110 pounds) was enough to allow the shock to come free. What's ever more impressive if that I had enough travel to acutally take the shock base out of it cradel laterally -- as appposed to sweeping it inward toward and over the cv boot. No prying tool was necessary. I think the secret is to use one spring compressor on the rear shock BEFORE you begin the removal procedure. Once I finshed the driver side, I got the passenger side done in about a half hour. Again, no prying tool was necessary, just a little extra weight on the the rotor.

I think that right now, I could do the whole thing in three hours, working carefully. Why the dealer quoted me six hours to do the job is now more, ahem, questionable than before.

As for the car, it looks great, much lower than I had envisioned, which is fine with me. I took before and after measurements, and I am amazed at what only 1.25 inches looks like -- the effect is dramatic, but maybe I'm just so used to staring at my car all the time that any change is dramatic. My car seemed to be appear really high when I first bougt it, but now, it looks very purposful and sleek -- looks a tad more exotic IMHO.

Anyway, thanks for the help. For those contemplating a self install of Eibachs, I say go for it, take your time, and be prepared to take all day to get it right. As Lud advised, do one side at a time, start to finish, so you always have the factory set up to refer to as you learn the first side. Make sure to use the spring compressor on the rear springs before you attempt to remove the shock. Also,don't force the rear lower shock mount -- if it seems impossible to get it out, you just aren't getting enough downward travel. An experienced mechanic, with proper tools, could easily get the job done in under two hours.

 

[nsxbadboy]

What kind of struts did you go with? When I lowered mine,it was pointed out to me that the front was a lot lower than the rear.23.5 inches in the front and 26.0 in the rear.I had installed the springs with Bilstein struts and just recently went back and set the rear on the lower setting to even things out.

Before:

After:

Joe

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97 NSX-T
93 Supra TT BPU++

 

[CChung]

Nice job, Mike! At first I thought you were crazy trying to do this job yourself but I guess you're pretty mechanically inclined and brave to get the work done properly. You probably know that you need a wheel alignment now. I hope you can get it close to stock specs but I heard over this forum that if you lower the car over an inch it's hard to attain the stock alignment setting. Let us know how close you got to the stock setting. I'm thinking about lowering my car too, since it'll look so much sleeker without those gaping spaces between the tire and fender. But I'm definitely going to have someone else do it! Congrats again!

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'00 NSX-T, silverstone/blk, #252

 

[Lud]

Glad to hear it went well!

I would never recommend using a pry bar, just having someone stand on the rotors. Using a pry bar opens you up to damaging things like the CV boot with a little slip.

It sounds like you have it down pretty well now if you were doing the second side in less than 30 minutes per corner!

So overall you saved several hundred dollars, learned a new skill and got some cool new tools... Sounds like a good outcome!

 

[DeHaldaswerth]

NSXBADBOY --

I went with the stock struts, since I was trying to lower the car with the least element of change to the factory ride quality. Ride feels about the same.

By the way, here are the final measurements for before and after. I marked my garage floor where the car sat before the change, and put the car in the exact same spot to measure after the install, to avoid variance because of the floor.

The front is exactly 1.5 inches lower, both sides. However, my 2001C looked really tall in comparison to my 2000T, so it may be that the factory setting was abnormally high, resulting in the larger than expected drop. The rear was 1 1/32 for the passenger side, 1 1/16 for the driver side.

 

[Veleno]

Glad to hear it went well. I'll be doing my spring swap this week, but I'm going with H&R.

What other tips or tricks can you recommend? I hope it goes as smoothly as yours did.


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Richard
NSXTASY

 

[ncdogdoc]

Now if someone could help me with Tokicos and Eibachs my Lexus LS400.

Cannot find a repair manual anywhere except e-bay, and I am never around when someone outbids me at the last second. Argghhh! Sorry about the non-NSX content LUD.

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Gary Yates
1995 Red/Tan

[This message has been edited by ncdogdoc (edited 18 February 2002).]

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by Veleno:
Glad to hear it went well. I'll be doing my spring swap this week, but I'm going with H&R.

What other tips or tricks can you recommend? I hope it goes as smoothly as yours did.

H&R with stock struts? Assuming there is only one set of H&Rs for the NSX, I'm afraid you will find that it is significantly over-sprung/under-damped. You will notice a pronounced pogo effect, especially over successive bumps. Also bad in a bumpy corner as it is already compressed from the turn, then hits a bump and tries to pogo off the pavement.

People get away with Eibachs & stock shocks (or Bilsteins) because the progressive rate starts very soft. Or at least they think they do during normal driving, but get it well loaded in a turn with bumps and the same danger applies.

This is why the Bilsteins stayed on my car for barely a week. Contrary to venor claims, Bilsteins does not make a Sport line shock for the NSX, only the OEM replacement HD line. BIG difference.

 

[ChopsJazz]

So sjs, what do you recommend? Eibachs with Koni?

 

[DeHaldaswerth]

Veleno --

Nothing more to add except take your time and get external grab spring compressors. While I am certainly no expert, feel free to private me if you get in a jam, or I will supply my phone number and you can call me. Again, I've only installed one set on a brand new, clean, suspension, so I am anything but an authority on the process. Having said that, I'm of the opinion that if I can do it, anyone can

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by ChopsJazz:
So sjs, what do you recommend? Eibachs with Koni?

Personally I prefer a linear rate spring such as H&R. Progressive rate is more of a compromise than I'm willing to make. So, until I change again to Tien or other adjustable coil-over I like the H&R + Koni. MANY people are very happy with Eibach + Bilsteins so I'm not saying that's a setup to avoid, just that the trade-offs should be recognized in advance. By contrast, many people find the H&Rs too stiff in that fist inch of compression. That's a compromise I'm willing to make for the crisper turn-in. I've never been a Koni fan, but at least they give you the ability to adjust rebound which gives you the option to soften it up at times if desired, like when taking Mom for a ride.

You should also take anti-sway bars into account. If you go much stiffer on them they will add to the harshness of the ride.

 

[ChopsJazz]

Thanks sjs, maybe just a little more help though. I track my car about 5-6 times a year and mostly just enjoy "spirited" club drives and backroad blasts. I have Dali street/track bars and am looking for crisp turn-in and predictable at-the-limit street/track manners. I would give street comfort about a 6-out-of-10 importance rating. A little help?

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by ChopsJazz:
... I have Dali street/track bars and am looking for crisp turn-in and predictable at-the-limit street/track manners. I would give street comfort about a 6-out-of-10 importance rating. A little help?

Too close to call. Try to get a ride in cars with the different options, or roll the dice and guess like I did. (which didn't work out too well, hence the rapid change.

)

The crisp turn-in and street comfort about a 6-out-of-10 importance rating are somewhat at odds, keeping in mind that even stock the NSX is very good on both counts.

 

[andreas]

I found the stock shocks too soft with Eibach springs, but the Bilsteins seem just fine. Until I hit the bump stops of course, at which point the effective spring rate increases dramatically. The NSX has long and progressive bump stops and mine were shortened when the Eibachs were installed, so these shorter springs get the same amount of compression travel before the bump stops take over.

sjs, perhaps you didn't cut the bump stops when you installed your H&R springs and were riding on the bump stops a lot? What did others do with the bump stops when switching to shorter springs?

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by andreas:
... sjs, perhaps you didn't cut the bump stops when you installed your H&R springs and were riding on the bump stops a lot? What did others do with the bump stops when switching to shorter springs?

No problem with the bump-stops. The H&R + Koni setup is stiff enough that I seldom if ever hit them. I like this combo fine, but now I want to play with adjustable height etc. My remarks about the pogo effect also does not relate to hitting the bump stops, just the natural tendencies of an over-sprung / under-damped suspension.

 

[ERicincal]

I have read all of the past postings and I am still confused.

from what I understand, here is what I can expect from adding the Eibach's to my existing stock setup.

same if not softer ride quality.
1.5 inch lowering all around
softer ride than the H&Rs
more progressive spring
not harsh


for these reason sI am going to be going with the Eibachs. Someone please correct me if I am wrong here. Im looking to buy them in the next week

thanks

 

[Milano]

Originally posted by andreas:
I found the stock shocks too soft with Eibach springs, but the Bilsteins seem just fine. Until I hit the bump stops of course, at which point the effective spring rate increases dramatically. The NSX has long and progressive bump stops and mine were shortened when the Eibachs were installed, so these shorter springs get the same amount of compression travel before the bump stops take over.

sjs, perhaps you didn't cut the bump stops when you installed your H&R springs and were riding on the bump stops a lot? What did others do with the bump stops when switching to shorter springs?[/QUOTE

I have seen numerous sites regarding the Bilstein Shocks. Most of them note that if you were to used a aftermarket spring the HD shocks is not suitable but Bilstein only makes HD shocks for the nsx. Also are CGI motorsport's bilsteins the same as the ones that sells at other websites? Shed some light in here I'm kind of confused.

-M

 

[ACR_Motorsports]

I believe the Bilsteins that CGI sells is exactly the same as the HD Bilstein Shock available from any other dealer. Only difference is that CGI will give you the option to have the lower perch set on the shocks to use with stock springs for a 7/8 inch drop.

Originally posted by Milano:

Originally posted by andreas:
I found the stock shocks too soft with Eibach springs, but the Bilsteins seem just fine. Until I hit the bump stops of course, at which point the effective spring rate increases dramatically. The NSX has long and progressive bump stops and mine were shortened when the Eibachs were installed, so these shorter springs get the same amount of compression travel before the bump stops take over.

sjs, perhaps you didn't cut the bump stops when you installed your H&R springs and were riding on the bump stops a lot? What did others do with the bump stops when switching to shorter springs?[/QUOTE

I have seen numerous sites regarding the Bilstein Shocks. Most of them note that if you were to used a aftermarket spring the HD shocks is not suitable but Bilstein only makes HD shocks for the nsx. Also are CGI motorsport's bilsteins the same as the ones that sells at other websites? Shed some light in here I'm kind of confused.

-M

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www.acrmotorsports.com

[This message has been edited by ACR_Motorsports (edited 27 April 2002).]

 

[Milano]

So you mean if I were to use stock spring I need to purchase from CGI? I'm thinking going Eibach but bilstein site note that HD shock are not suitable for aftermarket short springs which i think the Eibachs are.

Originally posted by ACR_Motorsports:
I believe the Bilsteins that CGI sells is exactly the same as the HD Bilstein Shock available from any other dealer. Only difference is that CGI will give you the option to have the lower perch set on the shocks to use with stock springs for a 7/8 inch drop.

 

[ACR_Motorsports]

Not necessarily. Bilstein Shocks will come from the factory with a ring for the stock height perch(higher perch). There is a groove in the shock for the lower perch, so just ask the company/shop you are buying the shocks from if they can take the ring and set it on the lower perch for you.

Originally posted by Milano:
So you mean if I were to use stock spring I need to purchase from CGI? I'm thinking going Eibach but bilstein site note that HD shock are not suitable for aftermarket short springs which i think the Eibachs are.

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www.acrmotorsports.com

[This message has been edited by ACR_Motorsports (edited 29 April 2002).]

 

[NSXGOD]

Originally posted by Milano:
So you mean if I were to use stock spring I need to purchase from CGI? I'm thinking going Eibach but bilstein site note that HD shock are not suitable for aftermarket short springs which i think the Eibachs are.

The Eibach springs and Bilstein shocks work fine together.
The Eibach springs and Koni shocks work fine together.
The Eibach springs and OEM shocks work fine together.

The same holds true for H&R or Intrax springs and the aforementioned shocks as well as ANY year OEM spring and the Bilstein and/or Koni shocks. What do you think the shock manufacturers tested the shocks with?

You may or may not like the combination of ride and handling qualities depending upon your use pattern and expectations.

Bilstein shocks are the same from any vendor - there are no special versions for the NSX available only from any particular vendor. Anyone with a screwdriver can decide where the spring clip (lower spring perch stop clip) is. Regular; (OEM height position) or 7/8ths. lowered position.

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need more info? please private me @

[email protected]

Mark Johnson, CEO of Custodial Services @ Dali Racing, a Not For Profit Company.

[This message has been edited by NSXGOD (edited 29 April 2002).]

[This message has been edited by NSXGOD (edited 01 May 2002).]