One Modification To Suspension

[OLDE GUY]

I track my '94 NSX 6 to 8 times a year with Porsche Clubs where I instruct. What ONE mod would you make to the NSX suspension and WHY? I know members who have only done sway bars; or only the front sway bar; or only done shocks with and without lowering the NSX; or some who have only done springs. But I don't understand the rational for each of these decisions.

I want to improve the NSX's track performance with one modification. I am not talking about an all out track car. Thanks for your in put.

 

[Eric5273]

sway bars and poly bushings.

 

[OLDE GUY]

Why?

Eric - Why do you choose that option. What is the rational? Thanks.

OLDE GUY

 

[Eric5273]

Just past experience with other sports cars (not the NSX).

Sway bars are the best bang for the buck, and the bushings help the sway bars perform better for minimal extra cost.

 

[Hrant]

Eric is correct.

The NSX, especially the T-top tends to have some body roll with the oem sway bars if you are tracking/autocrossing your car. The aftermarket sway bars, especially the adjustable ones which now all sell - do make a significant difference and you can also get better steering feedback as the car tend to track better in a straight line. Another step from here is the Type R front brace (2 pieces). Even if you don't track the car, I would say the sway bars are a no brainer.

The bushing helps keep the toe in the rear the same when you are loading the car in turns. Once the toe changes enough, with a mid engine, the NSX has a tendency to snap with oversteer at the limit, and with little feedback; the bushing helps you better ancticipate this. But again, for normal driving this is not needed.

I would also recommend dampners/schocks. There are many options in here, and you can match them with springs depending on how low and what level of comfort you want. The Bilstein is less harsh than the Konis. And with the Bilstein you can also lower the car by 7/8" thus the fenders will look better and the center of the gravity will be lower. The shocks are most notceable when you are braking hard. Unlike the oem, the nose of the car doesn't dive as much which helps you transition to steering and throttle input quicker.

Visit the websites of Comptech USA, DaliRacing, and Science of Speed for zillion options.

 

[Tank]

I agree that a sway bar is the biggest bang for the buck but I take a more holistic approach to the suspension. And at the same time a more conservative approach. The suspension works as a whole and I think it should be treated as such. Upping only one component just puts more strain on the other stock parts.

IMHO, buying the Zanardi suspension parts from Acura (springs/sway/etc) is a very cost effective way to upgrade the ENTIRE suspension. It gives you a lot more competitive performance without ruining your street ride.

But the icing on the cake is adding the poly bushings to the Zanardi kit. Add those and you are sooo close to "race" performance without the heavy expense. The bushings really help keep the tail under control. And - as I'm told and please correct me if this is wrong - they greatly reduce the need for a very aggressive alignment of the rear wheels. Which saves you a lot of wear on them.

Actually, if you like tinkering under the car, just changing the alignment for a track event can really change the handling. But what's good on the track will not be good for the street or your tires so you'll have to keep changing it back after each event.

Just my $.02, your mileage may vary.

t

 

[kenjiMR]

I don't think it makes sense to just do ONE suspension mod if all possible.

good cheap route:

- HR Spring + Koni adjustable shock + Dali Adjustable Swaybar

good medium route:

- TEIN RA + Dali Adjustable Swaybar

good expensive route:

- Comptech Competition Suspension Kit


Of course + good alignment and cornerbalance as necessary.

I am using TEIN-RA setup, it is a night and day difference relative to the stock setup in regards to driving confidence at the limit.

-Kenji

 

[John McCain Racing]

I would recommend sway bars first too. That was my first mod that was recommended by MJ way back in the day It took away almost all the body roll that my car had (1997 NSX-T) I also notice a difference with the Type-R front braces, but not like the sway bars.

 

[Zishan]

Yup, I thought my dropped NSX was the best handling car I had ever driven until I installed the Dali Track Sway bars. Almost no body roll at all. Just point and it turns! Now my NSX is the best handling car I've ever driven.

 

[kenjiMR]

Yup, I thought my dropped NSX was the best handling car I had ever driven until I installed the Dali Track Sway bars. Almost no body roll at all. Just point and it turns! Now my NSX is the best handling car I've ever driven.

have you guys read the sway bar tech in the FAQ? Its a good tech read on what sway bars do... Adding stiff sway bars don't necessarily make your cars 'handle' better.

 

[Zishan]

have you guys read the sway bar tech in the FAQ? Its a good tech read on what sway bars do... Adding stiff sway bars don't necessarily make your cars 'handle' better.

Since you quoted me, I feel compelled to reply....

Yes, I've actually heard that before and it makes sense. My suspension however is mostly stock. Ok, well just the shocks/struts are OEM. So my suspension is still pretty soft. So I have to say, in my particular situation, the sway bars did help in making the car 'handle' better. The difference is night and day.
Regards
Z

 

[NSXDreamer2]

What about the Race Seat... or less radical, at least a narrower "Reclinable street" race seat??

I have a hard time to keep myself planned on a stock nsx with the wider tires already... (I had a racing seat on my daily driven accord, so I guess I just all the sudden not used to "the force" laterally)

 

[docjohn]

I agree with above as per sways and bushings but am curious why you are limmiting yourself to one mod only.As you know suspension tuning and handling is the sum of many things as well as the driver's inputs.I don't think its fair to rely on one mod to sort it out.I do think that if you want to apraoch it in an orderly systamatic way than do mods one at a time and moniter your lap times/corner exit speeds for improvements.Sometimes you feel like your faster when in fact there is no change in actual time.

 

[NSXLuvr]

I don't think it makes sense to just do ONE suspension mod if all possible.

good cheap route:
- HR Spring + Koni adjustable shock + Dali Adjustable Swaybar

good medium route:
- TEIN RA + Dali Adjustable Swaybar

good expensive route:
- Comptech Competition Suspension Kit


Of course + good alignment and cornerbalance as necessary.

I am using TEIN-RA setup, it is a night and day difference relative to the stock setup in regards to driving confidence at the limit.

-Kenji

I am upgrading my stock suspension. Do other people on the board agree with this statement(about the cheap vs. medium route)

Also, Tank mentioned Zanardi Springs/Shocks. What are the spring ratings on the zanardi and what is the cost?

TIA

 

[2slow2speed]

With the availability of the NA2 NSX-R suspension that might be a worthwhile option for you, but I am not sure given the differences in weight between a NSX-T and the NSX-R perhaps Jim can share his experiences (I think that he has a NSX-T and drives with the NA1 Type R suspension) I think that might be a better option than the Zanardi setup for the track.

Send a PM to Andrie he probably knows more about Jim's setup.

Ken

I am upgrading my stock suspension. Do other people on the board agree with this statement(about the cheap vs. medium route)

Also, Tank mentioned Zanardi Springs/Shocks. What are the spring ratings on the zanardi and what is the cost?

TIA

 

[Tank]

I am upgrading my stock suspension. Do other people on the board agree with this statement(about the cheap vs. medium route)

I just went with the H&R sport springs and the adjustable Konis from my Zanardi kit. What a difference. I agree completely with the 3 levels of upgrades. But you can do the H&R/Koni set-up cheaper than buying the Zanardi parts from Acura (or buy my old set ). Teins are very nice, too. So are Penskes but who has that kind of money? Oh, yeah: Doug.

Alignment is key to which ever way you go. It may take awhile trying different swaybar/shock settings to get the right mix (tires make a difference as well) but you can certainly tune the car for some really nice handling without a lot on money. Biggest problem comes from those stinking small-ass tires in front. Unless you drive nothing tighter than big sweepers, dialing out the understeer push is a real challenge.

t

 

[docjohn]

I like the zanardi/koni yellow combo more than the HR/koni combo.The HR lower the car too much and I had more bump steer issues.There is another thread about the na2-r suspension that lists the spring rates of various combos plus the faq has some.

 

[Tank]

Indeed the H&Rs did lower quite a bit and did have an effect on bumpsteer. I need a couple more days of T&T to see if it is indeed too much for me or can be dialed out..... but overall I still like it better than the full Zanardi kit I had.

 

[OLDE GUY]

THANKS EVERYONE FOR THE GREAT ADVISE

I started this thread back in October 2003 and I really appreciate everyone who has taken time to reply. NSXPrime has many helpful threads on the topic of suspensions. Based on what I have learned here, I decided to order the 2002 NSX type R suspension from SOS. My second choice was the Zanardi springs, Koni "Sport" shocks and an adjustable Dali front swaybar.

Since all the Honda suspension packages (Zanardi and type Rs) use higher spring rates in the front than the rear, I didn't consider most of the other setups. See the table in the next post below. Thanks again for the knowledgeable imputs.

All the best,,,Bill

 

[OLDE GUY]

SPRING RATES OF VARIOUS PACKAGES

How Do The Various Suspension Packages Compare? **


.........................................Front............Rear............Ratio....Lower
.........................................#/in..............#/in...........frt/rr%...Inch

Stock '91 NSX....................170..............220..............77%

Stock '96 NSX....................179..............212..............84%

Stock '97 NSX....................196..............224..............88%

Stock '95 NSX-R.................447..............319............140%

Stock '93 NSX-R.................447..............336............133%

Stock '97 NSX S / Zanardi..363..............279............130%.....0.5 "

Stock '97 NSX S Zero........448..............336............133%.....0.5"

Stock '02 NSX Type-R.........582.............465.............125%....0.5"

Ground Control(Race)........601.............501.............120%...adjust

Ground Control(Street)......375.............501..............75%

Comptech Pro....................800.............601.............167%...adjust

Comptech Sport............150/200.......150/250.......60%-80%

Tein RA and RE..................591..............671..............88%...adjust

Eibach Pro.........................228..........137-280.....112%-81%...1"

H&R..................................260.............275...............94%.....1.5"

**Much of this information comes from DaliRacing website with some additions and updates

 

[docjohn]

Tank,I found the HR/koni setup was a real pusher at the auto x compared to the Z/koni setup.I ended up needing to have the rear konis full stiff and fronts full loose to keep from plowing like a pig.With the Z's I was able to get less push and did'nt need to rely on the shocks to improve cornering.

 

[D'Ecosse]

I'm not getting many inputs on the technical forum but this seems to be where all the suspension knowledge is - I'd appreciate any advice in response to this thread ...

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31105

Can anyone comment on springs for this set-up? I would like to be able to utilize the height adjustable feature (not extreme drop, maybe ~1") but need to identify the best spring length & rate to match up to them.
Again, I don't plan on hardcore racing, just a little tighter w/o totally sacrificing street ride comfort.
(please reply in original thread if you can offer advice, I don't want to start a duplicate posting topic)

 

[Tank]

Tank,I found the HR/koni setup was a real pusher at the auto x compared to the Z/koni setup.I ended up needing to have the rear konis full stiff and fronts full loose to keep from plowing like a pig.With the Z's I was able to get less push and did'nt need to rely on the shocks to improve cornering.

Doc,

Thanks for the heads up. I think I was heading for that same conclusion and you just saving me some valueable T&T time that I can now use to work on other things. Now if I could just get some 225s on the front..............

Thanks again for the insights,

T