On the Fence About Buying a new NSX - Help me Decide

[lencap]

Greetings -

I've long admired the original NSX, but my wife isn't a fan. Never warmed to the looks, didn't like the engine sound, and some other things. By the way she can really drive well, so her opinion is well founded. I drove it a few times, generally loved the seating position, but found that it didn't set me on fire to own it. The exhaust note wasn't stirring, and the car itself didn't seem to do it for me.

So over the years I've enjoyed a Porsche 911 (manual), several Alfas, and my latest lifetime love a Ferrari 360 spider (also manual). Of all the cars I've ever owned the Ferrari by far is the most fun to drive, and does double duty as a work of art. I admire the car every time I see it. BUT, and it's a big but, the issue with the Ferrari is upkeep. Regular maintenance is reasonable if you consider that depreciation isn't significant. The problem is the unknown.

The cats on my car are original and likely nearing the end of their useful life. Ferrari replacements are absurdly priced ($10K a side). There are also known issues with headers and a new clutch is $6K. When the new NSX was announced I was intrigued and put down a deposit figuring I'd swap out when the car was ready. That was over a year ago and I'm now at the point of not knowing what to do. My car is running fine, but needs the annual services and will likely need some more expensive work in the coming year(s). That doesn't kill me, but the fear of "the big one" breaking is a concern. If the retractable top fails (another known issue) that can easily cost $6K to fix. You get the idea.

My problem is that I don't have any idea what to expect from the NSX. On paper it's an interesting car. At $120K it would be a steal, but the dealer is suggesting that I should expect closer to $140K as the price, even higher is possible. The problem is will a turbo six cylinder battery assisted hybrid platform be as entertaining as a fully dedicated V8 Ferrari? I don't think so, but who knows? The other issue is resale. The original NSX held value well, but after a few years they had trouble selling the "new" version of the original cars. I remember the dealer offering me a $10K discount when he showed me the car - I hadn't even asked.

So, the question: What would you do? Keep the Ferrari, pony up the $5K or so to get it in shape for the next year/two, and hope nothing goes wrong? Sell it, but grateful that my ownership experience hasn't been a nightmare of bills and wait for the NSX, or consider something else? I'm also a "senior" citizen and love three pedal cars. I'm not sure how I'd do with a paddle shift NSX, or Porsche or anything else for that matter.

Thanks in advance for the help. It's been a while since I've been here, but this is a great forum and the advice is much appreciated.

 

[JD Cross]

Based on the glowing terms you speak about your Ferrari it seems pretty obvious you should spend your money on maintenence on your 360.
Given the reservations you already have about an NSX I doubt you would be happy with one.

 

[nikey22]

What year is your Ferrari?

The Ferrari is a very "technical" car, you basically need a SD2 to know what to repair on that thing.

There was a variator recall for early models that changed the valve lift on banks 1 and 3. Failure is very expensive here, make sure it got addressed.

Your manual gearbox is great, its rare and doesn't give trouble like the F1 does, it should last 28 to 34K.
The roof mechanism that you speak of was updated as well, usually this is a sensor problem (SD2 to the rescue)
I have to agree, the cats will be expensive, but so what....once every 7 year kinda thing...

Remember, there is no replacement for displacement. Your Ferrari V8 will CRUSH any V6.

Take a look at the attachment, you won't see that on a Honda:

 

[lencap]

Thanks for the replies. I've been a Ferrari fan for many decades and know the cars well. My car is a 2001, the first year for the convertible. The roof modification was done in the following year. My car requires that the roof be removed to replace the clutch. That's often when you get problems with the roof. The variator and other issues were addressed long ago. Car has been serviced by Ferrari dealership and top quality independent shops. Last year I invested in new belts/tires/fluids for the car. Should be OK, but the fear of something going wrong is what keeps me awake at night.

You are also right about rarity. In the total life of the 360 spider there were less than 1,700 left hand drive manual transmission cars built - and I have one of them. As an added bonus most people believe, and I agree, that the 360 is the last of the true manual transmission Ferraris. The F430, the 360 replacement, had a far improved F1 transmission and the car's electronics were designed to mate with that transmission. I've driven many F430s and as much as I love manual transmission cars the fact is that the F430 is a better car with the F1 transmission. Apparently Ferrari agreed since the 458 Italia, the F430 replacement, was never offered with a true manual transmission - only the F1. And today you can't order any Ferrari with a manual transmission - they are all F1s. For that reason alone I am hesitant to let my car go - it may be very hard to replace in the future - regardless of the upkeep costs.

In terms of driving pleasure I've owned Porsche 911s, many BMWs and some other toys, but nothing handles, feels or looks like a Ferrari. I think your advice is sound - I may indeed find that the NSX appeals to my head, but doesn't quite stir the soul. The Ferrari is just the reverse, but in the long run all toys are expensive - might as well get the one that appeals the most.

By the way, great picture of the 5 valve heads, but you can't really appreciate what those valves do until you hit the 8500 RPM rev limiter! It's quite a rush, and the combination of sound and responsiveness is truly a joy for any gear head. The run up from 6K to 8.5K RPMs is a symphony of sound, speed and laughter. No other car has come close, at least for me.

To truly get the flavor of the 360 you need to do two things: Drive it and hand wash it. When you wash it you see details that you may have missed. The way the airflow is designed to carefully hug the car's body leading it perfectly into the rear intakes to cool the engine bay. The top of the engine bay has a glass window so you can actually see the engine. The engine bay itself it built like an airplane - functional and designed for a purpose, but also designed to have routine (and often expensive) service - just like a plane. If you're an aircraft owner you know the term TBO - it's the time between overhauls for the plane's engine, an extremely expensive service where the engine is essentially rebuilt. Ferrari's are built with that intent - to provide exceptional performance, but to also require exceptional service to keep them running as designed. I guess I've sold myself on what to do, but I welcome feedback.

My biggest issue is trying to decide what the potential cost of owning a NSX may be? What will the resale value be, and how hard will it be to resell a few years down the road when the hybrid battery is wearing down.

The picture isn't my car, but a near exact duplicate. I also have the rear challenge grill, three piece Ferrari upgraded wheels (tasteful and sharp) and a few other toys.

http://blog.dupontregistry.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/2003-ferrari-360-2-dr-spider-convertible-pic-17891.jpeg

 

[JD Cross]

The costs of the new NSX are unknown and will remain so for at least 3-4 more years.
Your postings contain a short question or two about NSX's and then many lines about Ferrari's, how special they are etc.
This is not the talk of a person who will enjoy a 6 cylinder Japanese car from a marque viewed as inferior to Ferrari.
Cancel your NSX deposit and spend the $ on your 360.
Drop back in three or four years and see how the new NSX has fared

 

[docjohn]

the new nsx will be a state of the art hybrid awd exotic which will have some similarities to the F1 power system....comparing that to your old analog 360 is ...well you know.....keep the Ferrari and get the nsx.

 

[Olyar15]

Agree with the others who posted. Sounds like you already made your decision. Doesnt make sense to buy a car that will cost ~$120 to 140k. That will pay for a lot of repairs to the Fcar.

 

[QUICKIE]

Agree with the others who posted. Sounds like you already made your decision. Doesnt make sense to buy a car that will cost ~$120 to 140k. That will pay for a lot of repairs to the Fcar.

I bet it will be more near $165k. That's why my friend, with not so deep pockets, balked at some place that wanted over sticker price...

 

[effer]

Your Ferrari V8 will CRUSH any V6.

Even a F1 V6 !!! LOL

Wow! Fantastic axiom you stated there ...

Take a look at the attachment, you won't see that on a Honda:

On todays Ferrari neither ... LOL

 

[Nero Tenebre]

Performance wise, I will bet he new NSX will blow away your 360 when it comes out. It will have new car warranty and be built by Honda too. I love the 360 and don't like the new "NSX" poser but it's going to be new and have it's benefits. I don't know if it will stir your soul or not from what you've written.

 

[robbiedawg]

The cats on my car are original and likely nearing the end of their useful life. Ferrari replacements are absurdly priced ($10K a side)

just to be sure i'm reading you right-it's $20k to replace a pair of cats on your car?

 

[Nero Tenebre]

That is absurd if so. The way the company thinks it can just bend people over is disturbing. Cut them out and weld in some random technology cats. Done

 

[lencap]

Hi - Yes, the price of cats is absurd, but accurate. Here's the link to Ricambi America, a well known discount parts supplier to many exotic car marques. The cats are over $9K a side: http://www.ricambiamerica.com/parts_catalogs.php?M=FE&P=&V=diag&I=677

And, yes, most people cut them out. A clutch repair on a spider runs $5K-$7K depending on year (earlier cars are more expensive - the convertible top has to be removed to install the clutch). One way or another you pay for toys - either depreciation or repair.

 

[docjohn]

If you do decide to get the new nsx start your hunt now.Dealers have gotten the go ahead to take deposits for march 2015 delivery..and many dealers are getting only one.

 

[JD Cross]

Hi - Yes, the price of cats is absurd, but accurate. Here's the link to Ricambi America, a well known discount parts supplier to many exotic car marques. The cats are over $9K a side: http://www.ricambiamerica.com/parts_catalogs.php?M=FE&P=&V=diag&I=677

And, yes, most people cut them out. A clutch repair on a spider runs $5K-$7K depending on year (earlier cars are more expensive - the convertible top has to be removed to install the clutch). One way or another you pay for toys - either depreciation or repair.

My NSX has cost an average of $1755 per year for all maintenance including tires etc. for a total of $ 40365 over 23 years.

It sounds like you buy a Ferrari for the passion, the posing, and the prestige.
You buy an NSX because it's a really good car.
I guess you need to decide what is the more important, the marque or the car.

It would seem to be too late to get the first model year NSX as I believe each dealer has more deposits than allocation at this point.

 

[fastaussie]

My NSX has cost an average of $1755 per year for all maintenance including tires etc. for a total of $ 40365 over 23 years.

$1750 a year on maintenance? holy cow, that seems a bit pricey? I don't spend anything close to that and drive my '96 NSX-T every day.

if the (new) sound of Formula 1 is any indication, I'd stick with the old school petrol powered Ferrari...

 

[lencap]

JD - While I'm sure that some people buy a Ferrari for posing, I don't believe that's the case for most. The Ferrari is a wonderful machine. Is it a bit over the top, yes it is. But so is any car that has a 180 MPH top speed that's being bought for use in the USA. As a transportation device any car can do the job, but all of us have a desire for something more than just a transportation device. I've very much enjoyed my toys - regardless of the marque: Alfa Romeo, BMW, Porsche, Ferrari - each has something to offer. And yes, the NSX is a "good car", as you put it, but to suggest that a Ferrari is just a poser's toy completely misses the point of what a Ferrari really is and why many (including me) consider it the finest sports car available. It is a sport car built by a company that has dedicated their entire product line to being focused on the passion related to their machines.

 

[JD Cross]

JD - While I'm sure that some people buy a Ferrari for posing, I don't believe that's the case for most. The Ferrari is a wonderful machine. Is it a bit over the top, yes it is. But so is any car that has a 180 MPH top speed that's being bought for use in the USA. As a transportation device any car can do the job, but all of us have a desire for something more than just a transportation device. I've very much enjoyed my toys - regardless of the marque: Alfa Romeo, BMW, Porsche, Ferrari - each has something to offer. And yes, the NSX is a "good car", as you put it, but to suggest that a Ferrari is just a poser's toy completely misses the point of what a Ferrari really is and why many (including me) consider it the finest sports car available. It is a sport car built by a company that has dedicated their entire product line to being focused on the passion related to their machines.

Good points and you sound like a dedicated Ferrari owner who really appreciates all that Ferrari is.
I have two friends who own Ferrari's and they feel much as you do.
In 1990 I had a deposit on a 348 TS on but after driving it and then an NSX I couldn't get past the flaws in the 348 and the vastly better NSX.
I wanted the Ferrari but the better car won me over.

Your original post was whether to spend maintenance dollars on your Ferrari or consider an NSX.
Then you go on to hail the wonderful things about Ferrari ownership and defend the marque.
It's clear you get great pleasure from your Ferrari ownership but it's expensive.
If cost is a problem then it makes sense to move to a lower cost car in both purchase and operating costs, like an NSX, Porsche, Audi etc.

I guess what I'm trying to say is it sounds like you are looking for the aura of a Ferrari for less money but you are not going to find it in an NSX.
It's a Japanese car made by a volume manufacturer and will never have that.
However if you are prepared to ignore the marque and consider a high performance car from a manufacturer with a track record of low maintenance and reliability then an NSX is a good candidate.

- - - Updated - - -

$1750 a year on maintenance? holy cow, that seems a bit pricey? I don't spend anything close to that and drive my '96 NSX-T every day.

My costs include everything spent on my NSX excluding insurance and fuel and to be fair to the car I'm a heavy maintenance spender.
I did have a snap ring transmission case and an extra clutch in there as well as lots of tires in the early years before changing the alignment specs.
I have installed headers and another $3000 in minor updates like a Grom, HID headlights etc.
Also parts and labor here in Canada are much higher than in your area.

That said, I can find five year periods where maintenance was very low so perhaps the length of ownership has a bearing.

The government here has a mileage allowance of .51 cents per km if you use your own car on government business so this is the accepted all-in cost of keeping a car on the road here.
My NSX has cost .11 for insurance, .25 for operating, and .13 for fuel over 23 years and 162 K km for a total of .49 per km.
For the type of car the NSX is it stills comes in under the average cost of running a car.

 

[lencap]

JD - Your point is well made. I did begin by asking about maintenance and depreciation and morphed into a harangue about Ferrari ownership. There is no doubt that I enjoy my car, but there is also no doubt that it is a open ended expense, never knowing what may go wrong and what it may cost. The costs are part of the ownership experience, for better or worse.

I also agree that seeing the Ferrari name on my car dies cloud my judgment. I waited nearly 40 years to buy it, and at my age the number of years I have left to enjoy any sports car are sadly limited by my body, not my desire. For that reason I've put up with Ferrari costs, figuring that I can replace money but not limited time, but the reality is that as enjoyable as a Ferrari is for me there are unknown costs and eventual breakdowns that can/do limit the fun of ownership.

I've owned a Miata years ago and enjoyed it a lot. Costs were minimal and it was fun, but it wasn't a Ferrari, my "dream" car. I had to have one before it was too late, but after owning for a while I can't ignore the expense and continue to question if the money spent, or the fear of something going wrong, is still worth it. Part of me says yes, part says no, and that was the reason for the post. If the NSX lights my fire and provides lower operating costs it may indeed be the car for me at this stage.

I also admit that a new Corvette, at least on paper, may also fill the bill, as might a new Mustang Ecoboost properly optioned. The sad fact is that regardless of what sports car any of us may own, there are fewer and fewer places where they can be driven without worrying about traffic and in a safe manner on the road. And the temptation to keep pressing the accelerator is too strong to resist when you have a highly capable machine to drive.

My frustration isn't with you, it's with Father Time. I have the money to enjoy my car, regardless of marque, but unfortunately I don't have the body that I did 40 years ago. Don't let that happen to you. Buy whatever you can afford and enjoy it.

Thanks again to all - the help and friendship are much appreciated.

 

[Yinzer]

I've enjoyed this thread. This reminds me when I've needed experienced feedback with something at work and discussed it with one of the grey beards (older Fellow or Consulting Engineers) only to then solve the problem on my own essentially by hearing myself talk out loud and think through things outside of my head & with an audience. Nothing wrong at all with you doing something similar here IMHO.

I don't recall whether this was discussed by the OP or anyone else above and I unfortunately don't have time to re-read to verify but -- this sounds like the classic case of a hands-on test drive as being the only way to see if the new NSX scratches your itch? I personally remain hopeful about the next-gen but it'll be a near-miracle if Honda pulls off making the cockpit have similar sightlines and feel as unclaustrophobic as the gen-1, given all the current safety, stiffness, and airbag requirements. So if sitting in & driving a gen-1 doesn't stir your soul, then I'll be real curious to see which way you go next year.

Best of luck either way!

 

[JD Cross]

JD - Your point is well made. I did begin by asking about maintenance and depreciation and morphed into a harangue about Ferrari ownership. There is no doubt that I enjoy my car, but there is also no doubt that it is a open ended expense, never knowing what may go wrong and what it may cost. The costs are part of the ownership experience, for better or worse.

I also agree that seeing the Ferrari name on my car dies cloud my judgment. I waited nearly 40 years to buy it, and at my age the number of years I have left to enjoy any sports car are sadly limited by my body, not my desire. For that reason I've put up with Ferrari costs, figuring that I can replace money but not limited time, but the reality is that as enjoyable as a Ferrari is for me there are unknown costs and eventual breakdowns that can/do limit the fun of ownership.

I've owned a Miata years ago and enjoyed it a lot. Costs were minimal and it was fun, but it wasn't a Ferrari, my "dream" car. I had to have one before it was too late, but after owning for a while I can't ignore the expense and continue to question if the money spent, or the fear of something going wrong, is still worth it. Part of me says yes, part says no, and that was the reason for the post. If the NSX lights my fire and provides lower operating costs it may indeed be the car for me at this stage.

I also admit that a new Corvette, at least on paper, may also fill the bill, as might a new Mustang Ecoboost properly optioned. The sad fact is that regardless of what sports car any of us may own, there are fewer and fewer places where they can be driven without worrying about traffic and in a safe manner on the road. And the temptation to keep pressing the accelerator is too strong to resist when you have a highly capable machine to drive.

My frustration isn't with you, it's with Father Time. I have the money to enjoy my car, regardless of marque, but unfortunately I don't have the body that I did 40 years ago. Don't let that happen to you. Buy whatever you can afford and enjoy it.

Thanks again to all - the help and friendship are much appreciated.

I'm in late 60's, and always wanted a Ferrari too.
It was not to be and I've been very happy with my NSX.
You do have to have a thicker skin to own an NSX and a lot of Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren owners tend to look down on the marque.
That said I drove from Vancouver island to Raleigh NC last fall for our annual gathering at NSXPO.
8000 trouble free miles at speeding ticket pace.
At my age now the reliability and trouble free nature of the car has supplanted my Ferrari dream
While your 360 is a faster car, my reality is my NSX is all I can handle now.

I hope you keep the 360 as I think you would regret not having it.
Aren't we're old enough now to just go to the garage and enjoy the pleasure of looking at a nicely detailed 360?

Jim

 

[Olyar15]

Well, looking at it rationally, you will probably be further ahead financially by keeping the 360. Assuming the new NSX is $130k, that you can get it at MSRP, and that you can sell the 360 for, what, $80k? That would mean you still have to pay around $50k, which pays for a lot of maintenance and repair. So if you think you will need to spend more than that to keep up your 360 over the next few years, then yes it might be better to sell the 360 and get something newer. However, do you really think you will spend that much in repairs and maintenance? Of course, this does not take in the PITA factor of getting things fixed on our cars.

Of course, when it comes to sports cars, we don't always (never?) think rationally. If you feel like it is time for a change, then the best thing is to wait until you can test drive the new NSX and see how you like it. Then decide at that time.

 

[Nero Tenebre]

I like this thread! The 360 is like a hot woman with a ton of upkeep... I'd want to drive her all the time but I don't know if I am willing to provide the things she needs. Perhaps a lease or rental is more in order for that type of lady! You can definitely marry the NSX and mod her up. Once you've had the Ferrari though I don't know if you can go back without it lingering in your thoughts. You will always remember the fond times by nature but if you think about it long enough you may remember the reasons you got out. LOL I don't know how this comparison will go over with this crowd...

 

[Craigy]

JD - Your point is well made. I did begin by asking about maintenance and depreciation and morphed into a harangue about Ferrari ownership. There is no doubt that I enjoy my car, but there is also no doubt that it is a open ended expense, never knowing what may go wrong and what it may cost. The costs are part of the ownership experience, for better or worse.

I also agree that seeing the Ferrari name on my car dies cloud my judgment. I waited nearly 40 years to buy it, and at my age the number of years I have left to enjoy any sports car are sadly limited by my body, not my desire. For that reason I've put up with Ferrari costs, figuring that I can replace money but not limited time, but the reality is that as enjoyable as a Ferrari is for me there are unknown costs and eventual breakdowns that can/do limit the fun of ownership.

I've owned a Miata years ago and enjoyed it a lot. Costs were minimal and it was fun, but it wasn't a Ferrari, my "dream" car. I had to have one before it was too late, but after owning for a while I can't ignore the expense and continue to question if the money spent, or the fear of something going wrong, is still worth it. Part of me says yes, part says no, and that was the reason for the post. If the NSX lights my fire and provides lower operating costs it may indeed be the car for me at this stage.

I also admit that a new Corvette, at least on paper, may also fill the bill, as might a new Mustang Ecoboost properly optioned. The sad fact is that regardless of what sports car any of us may own, there are fewer and fewer places where they can be driven without worrying about traffic and in a safe manner on the road. And the temptation to keep pressing the accelerator is too strong to resist when you have a highly capable machine to drive.

My frustration isn't with you, it's with Father Time. I have the money to enjoy my car, regardless of marque, but unfortunately I don't have the body that I did 40 years ago. Don't let that happen to you. Buy whatever you can afford and enjoy it.

Thanks again to all - the help and friendship are much appreciated.

I think you should look for a 430 with a stick. I think they're a bit better maintenance wise. Or just hang onto the 360.

It doesn't sound like you really care about big performance, so save the paddle shift car for later when you no longer can handle a clutch pedal.

I don't think an NSX is a real solution to your maintenance cost issue. Buying a new car will suffer a tremendous amount of depreciation, much higher than what you would spend on keeping your 360 serviceable.

 

[stuntman]

Audi R8 V10?