oil level on dip stick question

[nsxhk]

Should I still use the oem 2 dots indicator system on the dip stick when I have an oil cooler installed?

The thick AN-10 lines and the oil cooler holds quite a bit of oil (maybe a quart or so). Wouldn't it be logicial to add more oil to compensate for the extra oil capacity in the system? If that is true, the the oil level will be WAY over the max dot when cold.

I don't have the nsx owner manual. Does it mention anything about how to check the oil level? Check when running? Check when cold? Or Check after shutdown?

Any comment?

Thnx.

Rgds,

Henry.

ps. please be nice and don't fight :tongue:

 

[Briank]

Normal procedure is to check the oil after the car sits not running for at about 5 min so the oil can drain down to the pan.

 

[nsxhk]

So that's almost like checking it cold then, ok.

Hmmm.....

Since I've increase my oil capacity in the system, that means there'll be less oil in the pan for the oil pick up WHEN the car is running, which is not a good thing.

Hmmm......

I was thinking, after the oil capacity increase, I shouldn't use the oem dip stick dot system anymore.

 

[Briank]

I don't know how you will figure out the correct amount of oil. I guess you fille it to the top mark and then add a quart and make a new mark on the dip stick.

 

[Hrant]

Henry, you bring up yet another interesting question :wink:

I am not engineer, but let me give this a try - as I will be staying at Holiday Inn LOL!

If the oil cooler (capacity) is at the same level horizontal plane or lower, then I would assume the dip stick should still be your guide. If it is at a higher level, then the dip stick would need to read higher no?

I have a 3 qts Accusump and as much as we have tried to measure the oil from the dipstick (Accusump pressurized or not) the dip stick still reads about 1" higher than the top range; and we know we filled the correct amount. I am now guessing perhaps this is because the Accusump sits on a higher plane?

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

Should I still use the oem 2 dots indicator system on the dip stick when I have an oil cooler installed?

Not at initial fill, at idle, or with an accessory bypass in the closed position- (see below)

The thick AN-10 lines and the oil cooler holds quite a bit of oil (maybe a quart or so). Wouldn't it be logical to add more oil to compensate for the extra oil capacity in the system?

Yes.

If that is true, the the oil level will be WAY over the max dot when cold.

Yes. You will read the extra oil at the stick, because this added oil will all drain back into the pan when the engine is off, or if you are at idle and not developing enough pressure to push oil through the setup, or if you have a oil thermostat / bypass and it is in the closed position [a common example would be because the oil temp is under 180 degrees and the thermostat has not yet opened to allow oil to flow to the cooler setup].

In all cases, not a problem. This is by design in a wet-sump system.

Any comment?

At fill:

- Add 5.3 quarts of oil (oem spec for oil + filter change)
- Add additional X quantity give or take depending on the capacity of your specific oil cooler setup.
- Add additional X quantity give or take depending on the capacity of your specific oil accumulator setup (if applicable).
- At initial cold fill, edge on the low side.


Initial Start/At track:

- Warm-up engine (if you have a bypass, you want it to hit the 180 degree target temp so as to be in the open position)
- If you have an accumulator, give it throttle so as to develop sufficient oil pressure to push the oil into the oil into the accumulator, then close the manual or electric valve when it becomes filled to capacity.
- If you have an oil cooler, give it throttle to develop sufficient oil pressure to push the oil through the oil cooler setup.
- Similar to a dry-sump system, you will now always check your level hot.
- Add as required

I have a 3 qts Accusump and as much as we have tried to measure the oil from the dipstick (Accusump pressurized or not) the dip stick still reads about 1" higher than the top range; and we know we filled the correct amount. I am now guessing perhaps this is because the Accusump sits on a higher plane?

If this is your reading with the valve closed, then you are probably adding too much oil. Canton advises only adding ~2.5 quarts for their 3 quart Accusump.

 

[nsxhk]

I don't have any oil cooler bypass valve so oil will alwys pass through the oil cooler.

r setup.
- Similar to a dry-sump system, you will now always check your level hot.
- Add as required

Yes, agree, very logical, check level hot(car fully warmed up and idling). Now, what is the hot level of a bone stock nsx? I've searched and cannot find any info on oil level when idling.

Henry.

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

I don't have any oil cooler bypass valve so oil will alwys pass through the oil cooler.

If you are also using it as a road car, it may be something to consider, particularly in colder climates.

Now, what is the hot level of a bone stock nsx?

Oil expands when it's hot and contracts when it's cold. Different temperatures will give you slightly different readings. Typical procedure is as follows: Ensure vehicle is level. Bring the vehicle up to normal operating temperature. Shut the vehicle off, give it a moment to let any oil in the head drain back to the pan. Pull the stick. You are going to want to target the top mark (full) on an otherwise stock vehicle.

I've searched and cannot find any info on oil level when idling.

Their is just going to be a little less in the pan because some oil has not drained from the head, as would be the case if it was shut-off.

For the track you simply need to optimize for what you would expect under load- i.e. actual operating conditions. In order to get reliable dipstick readings you need to establish a routine.

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

The oil level on the dip stick remains the same regardless of what oil cooler / oil accumulator system you have installed as those dots are relative to the oil pick up for the engine. To check level, run car for 5-10 seconds, and then check level on dipstick. Use the same points on the factory dip stick which equal about 1 quart from top to bottom.

regards,
-- Chris

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

The oil level on the dip stick remains the same regardless of what oil cooler / oil accumulator system you have installed as those dots are relative to the oil pick up for the engine.

Assuming any valves are open, and you are developing enough pressure to completely fill the accumulator, cooler, and plumbing to maximum fluid capacity so any extra oil is not sitting in the pan, I would agree that you can then simply pull the stick and take a normal reading.

To check level, run car for 5-10 seconds, and then check level on dipstick. Use the same points on the factory dip stick which equal about 1 quart from top to bottom.

My only caution would be that depending on the specific setup, this may not be adequate time. As an example, on an accumulator the manual valve when in the open position will fill it pretty quick, but due to the smaller valve on the EPC it may take as long as 20 seconds to complete its rapid fill sequence.

I always use the gauge on the accumulator as a reference to ensure it has been fully pressurized under load prior to closing the valve and taking a reading.

 

[nsxhk]

The oil level on the dip stick remains the same regardless of what oil cooler / oil accumulator system you have installed as those dots are relative to the oil pick up for the engine. To check level, run car for 5-10 seconds, and then check level on dipstick. Use the same points on the factory dip stick which equal about 1 quart from top to bottom.

regards,
-- Chris

I haven't installed my accusump yet, not going to install it for this track day.

Run car for 5-10 seconds, then check level with the car running or shut off? Why such a short time?

I tried to check level with the car idling, but my mechanic said it's impossible to take a correct reading from the dipstick because the crank is constantly beating the oil when the car is running, is that true?

So far, my only concern is the oil level at the oil pick up when the car is running.

Henry.

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

Run car for 5-10 seconds, then check level with the car running or shut off? Why such a short time?

An oil accumulator has an air and a oil side. The air side is slightly pressurized so it acts like a syringe.

The general idea here is very simple. When you start the engine and in-turn the oil pump, this pressurizes the oil system. If sufficient, this counter-pressure will push the oil from your pan into your oil accumulator, thereby filling it to capacity.

How long it takes to do this is a function of the type of valve, pre-charge and capacity of the accumulator, etc... but the simple answer is it happens fairly quickly. You can tell when this is completed as the the gauge on the air side will typically read around ~80psi when filled.

A nice feature, if you have a manual or electric valve, you can then close the valve so as to "trap" the oil in the accumulator.

I tried to check level with the car idling, but my mechanic said it's impossible to take a correct reading from the dipstick because the crank is constantly beating the oil when the car is running, is that true?

So far, my only concern is the oil level at the oil pick up when the car is running.

Typically the "MAX" level on the dipstick will put the oil level just below the crank at rest. IMHO, you would need to have an excess amount of oil in the pan whereby the crank would be partially or fully submerged.

I think their has been a mis-communication, generally for a wet sump system you check the level with the engine off.

If you don't then you simply need to account for that fact. Otherwise you will observe a slightly erroneous reading because a quantity of oil (usually about half a litre) is still confined in the oilways and passages (galleries) of the engine, cooler plumbing, etc... and that takes some time to drain back into the crankcase.