Ok, so the manual states to change oil every 7500...opinions? I know so change theirs every 3000, but if honda engineers state 7500 (on dino oil) is safe why? why not?
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92 Red/Blk
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92 Red/Blk
Oil change every 7500
- Thread starter NormRD
- Start date
Because we are anal and care about our cars way too much and have no other life. Well that's me anyways. What's extra $40-50 a year to maintain a $80,000 car. I changed my oil every 700 miles last year.(3 month interval)
Why not after every time you start it?
Even the 3k thing dates back to days when oil didn't approach today's technology, engine internals were less durable, they burned leaded fuel, and did it very inefficiently with lots of corrosive by-products. Even then it was probably excessive except under severe conditions.
Given the high-tech oils (and filters), clean combustion and superior materials of today, changing it every 3k is probably about as beneficial as using premium unleaded in a stock Pinto. I start thinking about it at 3k and hope to get to it by 5k. It's not the $, it's the time spent and the feeling of waste.
I don't mind to take 4 days out of 365 days to do oil change but that's just me...As for the feeling of waste...I compensate by only doing 2 oil change a year for my beater
My friend has a 2001 Mercedez E320, they have these sensors which tracks the condition of the oil. It also calculates the number of short trips and driving style. Anyway his oil service light did not turn on until 11,000 miles after the last oil change.
Not that I recommend you guys to leave your oil that long, I still change my NSX oil about every 3000 miles or 5 months.
Not that I recommend you guys to leave your oil that long, I still change my NSX oil about every 3000 miles or 5 months.
After reading this I start to feeling bad about my car... I only change oil and oil filter every 10-15000 km (Mobil 1) and I clean my RM Intake every 20000 km.
I am really feeling the urge to run out of the office and go to the garage and have him change my oil *now*
I am really feeling the urge to run out of the office and go to the garage and have him change my oil *now*
I've got 6 vehicles to maintain. I figure the oil mfgrs recommend 3000 so they can sell more oil, and the auto mfgrs recommend 7500 so the engine might wear out a little sooner and you buy a new car to replace it. I find 5000 miles to be an easy number to remember and a nice compromise between the two recommendations. I have yet to have an oil breakdown related failure in the 26 years of vehicle ownership. I've owned several different cars during that time, and I've owned a highly modified Honda CB750 for 24 years. It has 65K+ miles and I don't know how many mis-shifts during full throttle accelerations where the tach went over 12K (redline is 8K). I know full throttle burn outs let the engine run at 10.5K and I've done a fair amount of those over the years. 5K intervals work for me and I've got no plans to change that.
Thanks for the input, i think every 3000 maybe overkill for modern engines and oil but wanted to know reasons why people change theirs at less then half of what honda engineers recomend. And as I see it most just don't think the small savings are worth it for a few extra miles. Probably will do it at 5000.
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92 Red/Blk
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92 Red/Blk
- Joined
- 3 February 2000
- Messages
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If you read the entire oil section of the manual, it describes "severe" conditions and recommends shorter service intervals (3750 miles for oil change) for cars operated in that manner.
While it doesn't specifically list "driving it hard through some fun back roads," I think it is reasonable to assume that constitutes operating under "severe" conditions as opposed to just cruising on the Interstate. Hence I think for the way the majority of owners I have met drive their car, the factory recommendation is 3750 miles.
Just my opinion.
[This message has been edited by Lud (edited 31 January 2002).]
While it doesn't specifically list "driving it hard through some fun back roads," I think it is reasonable to assume that constitutes operating under "severe" conditions as opposed to just cruising on the Interstate. Hence I think for the way the majority of owners I have met drive their car, the factory recommendation is 3750 miles.
Just my opinion.
[This message has been edited by Lud (edited 31 January 2002).]
People have widely differing opinions about oil, like most things. I have been going down the road for a long time, so my opinions have been forming since the time oil technology was very different than now.
That said, I also have the benefit of long experience changing oil for many years and in various automobiles. Even when the car is not very expensive, major engine repairs can be expensive and inconvenient, not to mention that feeling you have when you know your engine could and should have a cleaner 'bloodstream', or becomes a 'smoker', or makes various 'worn out engine' noises. Once the inside of your engine gets the dirty, gunky appearance resulting from oil left in past its prime, there is really no easy remedy. Engine flushes may loosen up the softest sludge, but do they remove those dark, hard deposits, or even the stuff coating the underside of your valve covers?
I have long doubled the frequency of oil changes recommended by the manufacturer. I have seen oil that was left in 5,000 to 7,500 miles, and the tarlike appearance and combustion smell are enough to reinforce my determination to keep to the 3,750 mile standard, to get that mess out of my precision crafted performance engine. Sure, the dark appearance and smell means that the oil is holding a lot of contaminants in suspension. Why not make sure it isn't going to be pushed beyond a prudent limit, where it just can't absorb those contaminants as easily as the oil companies would have you believe? Clean oil is cheap insurance against catastrophic failure or slowly degrading performance, and our NSX's high-revving, high compression engine is a real torture test for oil.
I have an '88 Integra with 270,000 happy miles on the odometer, and I have always performed the oil changes on a strict 3,750 mile basis. This car does not require any oil to be added between changes. It never goes more than halfway between the 'Full' and 'Add' marks, and what inside engine places I have seen only look a clear tan color, it has never needed any engine repair, and it still sounds about like it did long ago, all the while still acting too young to smoke.
There was an article in 'Consumer Reports' some years back, where they tested oil in a taxi fleet, and refuted the results of an earlier test, which had found obvious differences between brands of oil. They also said the recommended oil change interval was satisfactory. I believe the test was flawed in several ways. Firstly, they were not looking to keep their engines in 'like new' condition, so some wear was acceptable, but not for those of us looking for years of peak high performance. Secondly, the taxis were not subject to the usual overnight, or possibly much longer, periods of sitting, but were always being driven, generally at slow speeds. Therefore, their engines rarely even cooled down. As we have been told many times, an engine receives most of its wear during the first five minutes of driving, while the engine is cold. I am always careful to put a minute or so of idling upon cold startup, followed by a mile or so of gentle driving, until the temperature is normal.
I subscribe to 'Cars and Parts' magazine. The technical column, 'Tool Bag' had an oil discussion a few months back. The writer's personal opinion about oil was based on the additives. He stated that he was unaware of any additive that was not depleted by 3,900 miles. Of course, most of the cars he writes about are lower compression, looser tolerance, lower-revving engines than we have now, so they are easier on oil. I do not use synthetic oil as of yet, but the additive reference might have at least a proportionate relationship.
Yes, oil has changed in the last 50 years. In the 60's, I was changing oil at roughly 1,000 to 1,500 miles. Now it has gone to 5 or 7 times that long. My faith factor has not increased by that much, so I'll stick to the 3,750 mile interval for the forseeable future.
JMHO,
Bill
That said, I also have the benefit of long experience changing oil for many years and in various automobiles. Even when the car is not very expensive, major engine repairs can be expensive and inconvenient, not to mention that feeling you have when you know your engine could and should have a cleaner 'bloodstream', or becomes a 'smoker', or makes various 'worn out engine' noises. Once the inside of your engine gets the dirty, gunky appearance resulting from oil left in past its prime, there is really no easy remedy. Engine flushes may loosen up the softest sludge, but do they remove those dark, hard deposits, or even the stuff coating the underside of your valve covers?
I have long doubled the frequency of oil changes recommended by the manufacturer. I have seen oil that was left in 5,000 to 7,500 miles, and the tarlike appearance and combustion smell are enough to reinforce my determination to keep to the 3,750 mile standard, to get that mess out of my precision crafted performance engine. Sure, the dark appearance and smell means that the oil is holding a lot of contaminants in suspension. Why not make sure it isn't going to be pushed beyond a prudent limit, where it just can't absorb those contaminants as easily as the oil companies would have you believe? Clean oil is cheap insurance against catastrophic failure or slowly degrading performance, and our NSX's high-revving, high compression engine is a real torture test for oil.
I have an '88 Integra with 270,000 happy miles on the odometer, and I have always performed the oil changes on a strict 3,750 mile basis. This car does not require any oil to be added between changes. It never goes more than halfway between the 'Full' and 'Add' marks, and what inside engine places I have seen only look a clear tan color, it has never needed any engine repair, and it still sounds about like it did long ago, all the while still acting too young to smoke.
There was an article in 'Consumer Reports' some years back, where they tested oil in a taxi fleet, and refuted the results of an earlier test, which had found obvious differences between brands of oil. They also said the recommended oil change interval was satisfactory. I believe the test was flawed in several ways. Firstly, they were not looking to keep their engines in 'like new' condition, so some wear was acceptable, but not for those of us looking for years of peak high performance. Secondly, the taxis were not subject to the usual overnight, or possibly much longer, periods of sitting, but were always being driven, generally at slow speeds. Therefore, their engines rarely even cooled down. As we have been told many times, an engine receives most of its wear during the first five minutes of driving, while the engine is cold. I am always careful to put a minute or so of idling upon cold startup, followed by a mile or so of gentle driving, until the temperature is normal.
I subscribe to 'Cars and Parts' magazine. The technical column, 'Tool Bag' had an oil discussion a few months back. The writer's personal opinion about oil was based on the additives. He stated that he was unaware of any additive that was not depleted by 3,900 miles. Of course, most of the cars he writes about are lower compression, looser tolerance, lower-revving engines than we have now, so they are easier on oil. I do not use synthetic oil as of yet, but the additive reference might have at least a proportionate relationship.
Yes, oil has changed in the last 50 years. In the 60's, I was changing oil at roughly 1,000 to 1,500 miles. Now it has gone to 5 or 7 times that long. My faith factor has not increased by that much, so I'll stick to the 3,750 mile interval for the forseeable future.
JMHO,
Bill
Bill, nice post. I agree. I always thought of the oil as the life-blood of an engine.If we could all change our own blood as often, maybe we'd all last a lot longer too.
Think I will stick with every 5000 miles on Mobil 1 even if it should hold up for over 10,000 miles in my climate with proper filtration.
"Exposing the 3,000 Mile Change Myth"
Engines run much hotter than they used to. That puts an increased burden on the oil. Synthetics are up to the task. Petroleum oils are a little overmatched. Temperature is one of the most important factors that contribute to the breakdown of an oil. Petroleum oil begins to break-down almost immediately. A high quality synthetic, on the other hand, can last for many thousands of miles without any significant reduction in performance or protection characteristics due to its’ tolerance to heat. Synthetics designed from the right combination of base-stocks and additives can last indefinitely with the right filtration system.
As a refined product, petroleum oil molecules are of varying sizes. So, as a petroleum oil heats up, the smaller molecules begin to burn off. Deposits and sludge are left behind to coat the inside of your engine.
In addition, as smaller particles burn off, the larger, heavier molecules are all that is left to protect the engine. Unfortunately, these larger particles do not flow nearly as well and tend to blanket the components of your engine which only exacerbates the heat problem as friction builds-up.
Synthetic oils, on the other hand, because they are not purified, but rather designed within a lab for lubrication purposes, are comprised of molecules of uniform size and shape. Therefore, even if a synthetic oil does burn a little, the remaining oil has the same chemical characteristics that it had before the burn off. There are no smaller molecules to burn-off and no heavier molecules to leave behind.
At cold temperatures, petroleum oils tends to thicken up because most contain paraffins (wax) and additives are used to help keep the oil from thickening too much due to these waxy contaminants. In areas where the temperature remains below zero for any period of time, these additives are used up very quickly. As a result, the oil begins to flow less easily in cold weather temperatures. Of course, the result is harder cold starts and tremendously increased engine wear. Thus, the oil must be changed in order to provide the cold weather engine protection which is necessary.
Since synthetics contain no additives to aid with cold temperature flow, synthetics maintain their cold temperature flow characteristics for a long period of time. The obvious result is that you don't need to change synthetic oil as often to regain adequate cold temperature flow.
"Exposing the 3,000 Mile Change Myth"
Engines run much hotter than they used to. That puts an increased burden on the oil. Synthetics are up to the task. Petroleum oils are a little overmatched. Temperature is one of the most important factors that contribute to the breakdown of an oil. Petroleum oil begins to break-down almost immediately. A high quality synthetic, on the other hand, can last for many thousands of miles without any significant reduction in performance or protection characteristics due to its’ tolerance to heat. Synthetics designed from the right combination of base-stocks and additives can last indefinitely with the right filtration system.
As a refined product, petroleum oil molecules are of varying sizes. So, as a petroleum oil heats up, the smaller molecules begin to burn off. Deposits and sludge are left behind to coat the inside of your engine.
In addition, as smaller particles burn off, the larger, heavier molecules are all that is left to protect the engine. Unfortunately, these larger particles do not flow nearly as well and tend to blanket the components of your engine which only exacerbates the heat problem as friction builds-up.
Synthetic oils, on the other hand, because they are not purified, but rather designed within a lab for lubrication purposes, are comprised of molecules of uniform size and shape. Therefore, even if a synthetic oil does burn a little, the remaining oil has the same chemical characteristics that it had before the burn off. There are no smaller molecules to burn-off and no heavier molecules to leave behind.
At cold temperatures, petroleum oils tends to thicken up because most contain paraffins (wax) and additives are used to help keep the oil from thickening too much due to these waxy contaminants. In areas where the temperature remains below zero for any period of time, these additives are used up very quickly. As a result, the oil begins to flow less easily in cold weather temperatures. Of course, the result is harder cold starts and tremendously increased engine wear. Thus, the oil must be changed in order to provide the cold weather engine protection which is necessary.
Since synthetics contain no additives to aid with cold temperature flow, synthetics maintain their cold temperature flow characteristics for a long period of time. The obvious result is that you don't need to change synthetic oil as often to regain adequate cold temperature flow.
Me too.
I’ve put mega miles on many cars over the years and they’ve all gone to the junk yard with running engines that didn’t burn lots of oil, but those beaters never got an oil change more than once every 10k miles, and I always used cheap oil.
Much more interesting though is my Father’s story. He changes the oil every 3-3.5 k. He has always been very meticulous in this because we barely scraped by when I was young and he saw it as cheap insurance. Yet his cars have always burned copious amounts of oil by 100k, mine never have. I can disregard some of them, like the Pinto and even the Mustangs (1965, 1968, 1972, 1980), but he and Mom have had four cars purchased new and driven well past 100k since 1989, and they too burn oil. The 1992 Probe (Mazda 2.2 engine) is at ~125k and typically gets less than 800 miles/qt. Their cars have ALWAYS been this way and they certainly are not subjected to extreme conditions. (Dad is equally meticulous about all service matters) I have my own theories about why that is, but my point here is that changing oil at 3k rather than 5 or 7 is no guarantee of anything, and rarely does a car get retired or an engine rebuilt because due to long intervals between oil changes. The primary risk of a few extra K seems to be the rings & cylinder walls, but as my Father has been proving for 60 years, there’s more to it than that.
[This message has been edited by sjs (edited 02 February 2002).]
