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NSX competition - F430
- Thread starter Silver F16
- Start date
A more apt title would have been "F430 food: NSX 
"
"
What competition? Does Honda even play anymore? 
likes the ENZO tail lights.
nsxtacey said:wow
Gotta admit it looks way better than the hsc.
The next nsx better have at least 400hp to keep anywhere close to the 430.
Hmm... let's make 450hp to contrast the almost 500 of the (quite light and aerpdynamic) Ferrari...
Am curious as to why their "new" model does not outperform the current "leader" in this price point -- the Lambo Gallardo. Ferrari does not strike me as a constructor that settles for "second best". Comparatively, the original 360 was a leader in several categories, in several respects comparable with more powerful, "faster on paper" machines (e.g., Viper, P911/996 TT, etc).
In several categories the Gallardo still exceeds the new 430, at least on paper. Unless Ferrari has some "secret sauce" they're not letting onto -- suspension tuning, etc -- that might more than offset the apparent power advantage.
Other than the above, I think its a GREAT car
In several categories the Gallardo still exceeds the new 430, at least on paper. Unless Ferrari has some "secret sauce" they're not letting onto -- suspension tuning, etc -- that might more than offset the apparent power advantage.
Other than the above, I think its a GREAT car
Ferrari always has "secret sauce" and has openly stated they're not going to play some ridiculous numbers and HP game because that's not what they're about.
Like Porsche, they use their previous car as a benchmark.
My personal belief is that Lambo will just never threaten Ferrari. The Gallardo is great and I know the people taking delivery of them really love them, but lets get real. The Gallardo is no threat to the 430.
I'd also bet that, as usual, the "on paper" stats don't tell anywhere near the full story and that from behind the wheel, only someone who refuses to buy a Ferrari or needs to be different will find the Gallardo superior.
By the way, I dont consider any Ferrari (or Lambo) actual competition for the NSX. I just cant really imagine the person that is, in all seriousness, cross shopping a NEW 430 or Gallardo with an NSX/HSC.
There will be people who are kidding themselves and pretending they can afford the Ferrari but "choose not to buy it", but very few who can TRULY afford the price of entry of a Ferrari or Lambo choose something else (unless its as a 3rd or 4th toy).
I'll use myself as an example... I owned an 03 NSX and can generally afford up to around $90k for a car. I definitely cannot afford to own a Ferrari, however. Even though *technically* I could have purchased a used 355 or 348 for the price of the new NSX, being able to afford to keep the thing on the road is a WHOLE different ballgame. The $1 per mile you need for the Ferrari just requires a completely different league of wealth. If I had the kind of money you need to *own* a 355, I would never have even considered the NSX (or the 911 that I own now).
I think that the competition for the NSX is the likes of the Viper, Vette and 911 (and, unfortunately, that is just as much of a sad story with an unhappy ending for the NSX).
Like Porsche, they use their previous car as a benchmark.
My personal belief is that Lambo will just never threaten Ferrari. The Gallardo is great and I know the people taking delivery of them really love them, but lets get real. The Gallardo is no threat to the 430.
I'd also bet that, as usual, the "on paper" stats don't tell anywhere near the full story and that from behind the wheel, only someone who refuses to buy a Ferrari or needs to be different will find the Gallardo superior.
By the way, I dont consider any Ferrari (or Lambo) actual competition for the NSX. I just cant really imagine the person that is, in all seriousness, cross shopping a NEW 430 or Gallardo with an NSX/HSC.
There will be people who are kidding themselves and pretending they can afford the Ferrari but "choose not to buy it", but very few who can TRULY afford the price of entry of a Ferrari or Lambo choose something else (unless its as a 3rd or 4th toy).
I'll use myself as an example... I owned an 03 NSX and can generally afford up to around $90k for a car. I definitely cannot afford to own a Ferrari, however. Even though *technically* I could have purchased a used 355 or 348 for the price of the new NSX, being able to afford to keep the thing on the road is a WHOLE different ballgame. The $1 per mile you need for the Ferrari just requires a completely different league of wealth. If I had the kind of money you need to *own* a 355, I would never have even considered the NSX (or the 911 that I own now).
I think that the competition for the NSX is the likes of the Viper, Vette and 911 (and, unfortunately, that is just as much of a sad story with an unhappy ending for the NSX).
Sorry, but again, the 1$/mile for "normal" Ferrari (not F40/F50/Enzo) is *pure* legend...
Interesting fact, the 430 has 2 tech's lifted from F1 and are patented by Ferrari
1. E-diff. Basicly diverts power to the front wheels to give better acceleration sorta like a AWD setup. However, unlike the that setup, this is completely electronic and has no added weight.
2. Steering wheel traction control settings to max per. in each possible enviroment.
1. E-diff. Basicly diverts power to the front wheels to give better acceleration sorta like a AWD setup. However, unlike the that setup, this is completely electronic and has no added weight.
2. Steering wheel traction control settings to max per. in each possible enviroment.
Interesting commentary.spookyp said:
One interesting question: which car segment does Honda/Acura view as their target market competition ?? If its still Vette / Viper / P911 996/997 , then we'll probably still be "in the market" with a 400 hp car, possibly still in the sub $100K range. If its P911-GT2 / 360 / Gallardo / Ford GT range ($150K+), then most of us current owners are probably priced out of that market.
Down the road it becomes a more interesting choice: new NSX versus 4+ year old 360, Gallardo, etc. Prices (at least on an acquisition cost basis) will probably be comparable, but will the new car be even competitive against those ??
I had a deposit on the HSC, that now looks like it is not coming, my second choice is the Gallardo. I currently have an NSX.
I love it!!!!
If you get one, I want a ride!PoohBEAR said:
- Joined
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ABSOLUTELY TRUE!gheba_nsx said:
I don't know where the $1 per mile BS comes from ... unless you count all the people that own a Ferrari and drive it 500-1k miles per year and service it at the dealer exclusively and follow the time of service since they don't make the mileage ... then MAYBE I can see that per mile stat.
My Ferrari 456M has been nothing but good to me and I have racked up 9k miles this summer since I bought it, including a trip from NY to FL and back, and another from Las Vegas to NY.
Bottom line... DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!
Thanks to Fchat.
Jam you on fchat?
To me it looks like a cross between a 360, gallardo, and enzo. I still don't like the front at all. The intakes under the lights look like last minute thoughts...
Wow, I don't know if it is the real life back ground, or the color(yellow)
but I like this car a lot.
I didn't really like it from the press photos around the net (red one), but this one, HOT..
I think yellow is THE color for ferraris...
probably though, and i'm only guessing, the 612 won't look good in any color.....
I still like the F355 the best..
but I like this car a lot.
I didn't really like it from the press photos around the net (red one), but this one, HOT..
I think yellow is THE color for ferraris...
probably though, and i'm only guessing, the 612 won't look good in any color.....
I still like the F355 the best..
mohaji probably though said:
Yes that is a Scaglietti ( don't like it).
I still do not love the rear of the 430 but I like the front. I doubt it is the work of a last minute thoughts since the aerodynamic of this car is one of the most refined (if not "the" most) ever produced for a road car. Everything curve or intake you see on it has a reason to be...
( don't like it).I still do not love the rear of the 430 but I like the front. I doubt it is the work of a last minute thoughts since the aerodynamic of this car is one of the most refined (if not "the" most) ever produced for a road car. Everything curve or intake you see on it has a reason to be...
Here is what an F430 sounds like...http://ferrarichat.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=78217
What competition?
The 430 is a gorgeous car. If I win the lottery........hmmm..... NSX is a car of yesteryear. EVERYONE else have moved on with better products and performance and has taken advantage of more efficient production lines. Back in 1991, the NSX came out and beat the crap out of all the big boys including 911, 348, Espirit, and the Corvette. It made the Ferrari look like some overpriced garbage. Of course, these guys are not just going to sit there to be humiliated and surely they have gone on to built better machines, not necessarily to respond to the NSX but to meet the market's demands of new things. Fourteen years later, the 348, 355, 360 have come and gone, the 350z, WRX, EVO are running around $30-$40k with very respectable performance. All of a sudden, the 2004 NSX looks like some overpriced underperformer just like the way we looked at the Ferrari back in 1991. NSX is no doubt a great car nonetheless, but people expect a lot more car from a $90k Honda in today's standard. The NSX is still built in the same way as in 1991 with expensive cost. Over the past 14 years, it has not taken any advantage of more advanced production methods and computer advance. I am sure if Honda wants to build a S2006 for $30k, it will beat the living hell out of its older brother S2000. Same goes for Toyota, Nissan, Subaru, and many others. I think Honda should build a $90k car to beat the HELL out of the NSX. BTW, I can't believe some people still talk about the current NSX competing the current Ferraris. The Ferraris have gone so far ahead and have already set a class of their own AGAIN. Ferraris are ALWAYS going to be expensive and the rich guys WILL still buy them no matter what. So don't give me that bargain $90k NSX supercar BS because the REALLY rich guys don't care. Larry and Woz just like them not because of the price. The Ferraris simply don't care about the current NSX, period. Don't get me wrong, I am a diehard Honda guy who has had numerous Hondas and currently still has 2 Honda cars and 3 Honda motorcycles. I want Honda to still sit on top. It makes me cringe when I see idiots with license plates like "Enzo-WHO" which shows nothing but inferiority complex all over their $25k used cars. It is the same BS if a WRX pulls up with a license plate that says "WHATNSX." Honda is simply the most capable automotive manufacturer in the world but it has lost vision with the current NSX. A 997TT is getting more and more tempting everyday for me. All Honda needs to do is to build a $90k-100k HSC with matching performance and my check will go to them.
Steve
The 430 is a gorgeous car. If I win the lottery........hmmm..... NSX is a car of yesteryear. EVERYONE else have moved on with better products and performance and has taken advantage of more efficient production lines. Back in 1991, the NSX came out and beat the crap out of all the big boys including 911, 348, Espirit, and the Corvette. It made the Ferrari look like some overpriced garbage. Of course, these guys are not just going to sit there to be humiliated and surely they have gone on to built better machines, not necessarily to respond to the NSX but to meet the market's demands of new things. Fourteen years later, the 348, 355, 360 have come and gone, the 350z, WRX, EVO are running around $30-$40k with very respectable performance. All of a sudden, the 2004 NSX looks like some overpriced underperformer just like the way we looked at the Ferrari back in 1991. NSX is no doubt a great car nonetheless, but people expect a lot more car from a $90k Honda in today's standard. The NSX is still built in the same way as in 1991 with expensive cost. Over the past 14 years, it has not taken any advantage of more advanced production methods and computer advance. I am sure if Honda wants to build a S2006 for $30k, it will beat the living hell out of its older brother S2000. Same goes for Toyota, Nissan, Subaru, and many others. I think Honda should build a $90k car to beat the HELL out of the NSX. BTW, I can't believe some people still talk about the current NSX competing the current Ferraris. The Ferraris have gone so far ahead and have already set a class of their own AGAIN. Ferraris are ALWAYS going to be expensive and the rich guys WILL still buy them no matter what. So don't give me that bargain $90k NSX supercar BS because the REALLY rich guys don't care. Larry and Woz just like them not because of the price. The Ferraris simply don't care about the current NSX, period. Don't get me wrong, I am a diehard Honda guy who has had numerous Hondas and currently still has 2 Honda cars and 3 Honda motorcycles. I want Honda to still sit on top. It makes me cringe when I see idiots with license plates like "Enzo-WHO" which shows nothing but inferiority complex all over their $25k used cars. It is the same BS if a WRX pulls up with a license plate that says "WHATNSX." Honda is simply the most capable automotive manufacturer in the world but it has lost vision with the current NSX. A 997TT is getting more and more tempting everyday for me. All Honda needs to do is to build a $90k-100k HSC with matching performance and my check will go to them.
Steve
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Re: What competition?
I am with you 100% Steve. The current car is a still a great car, but it pales in comparison to EVERYTHING else out there either double its price or half of it. I wish I was in charge of the next NSX. Everyone here would be lining up
I am with you 100% Steve. The current car is a still a great car, but it pales in comparison to EVERYTHING else out there either double its price or half of it. I wish I was in charge of the next NSX. Everyone here would be lining up
