no threads on zimmerman?

[nsxotic911]

I must be overlooking it. If not, here we go!

Can anyone make a case for murder in the second degree, or manslaughter even? When all evidence points to Zimmerman being the victim of the assault and Zimmerman acting in self defense. It doesn't matter that Zimmerman was following him, and as a result Zimmerman got his ass kicked. If it was illegal to follow Martin, charge him with that.

Secondly, the voice was Zimmerman. Why would Martin schreek "help" while on top winning the fight pounding Zimmerman's head into the paement? No one ever gave any testimony that Martin had any injuries other than the gun shot. Zimmerman didn't get 1 punch in. In contrast, Zimmerman had injuries consistent to getting his ass kicked by a 17 year old kid. Zimmerman may have been beaten to death, or at least seriously injured with brain damage by the time the cops would have arrived.

It sucks that a 17 year old boy is dead. It also sucks that he decided that rather than asking the neighborhood watch person to stop following him, and/or called 911 himself, he decided to start beating on a guy that ended up having a gun...

.....Which in closing, leads me to a story I always think back to and remember when I hear stuff like this. When I was about 17, I was walking around the neighborhood with a friend of mine. We run into this scronny kid walking with his girlfriend. For some reason, my friend decided to get in an stupid argument about God knows what, with him. The guy being a scronney kid, and us two big guys (ok - not really), I just let him argue thinking nothing is going to happen. I didn't join the argument, I was thinking "whatever." At some point I notice the guy pull out a knife out and holds it by his side... nervously thinking when he's going to knife my friend, and then probably me. At that point I stepped in, profusely apologized for everything and told the guy he was right.. and calmly pulled my friend away. Had I not noticed that and did that, I'm very certain that my friend would have been knifed, and very possibly me. We were all within inches away.

Lesson of the day: No matter how big or small, and how big or small you are, be nice to everyone on the street. If you get in a situation, diffuse it and apologize for whatever you didn't do that they are accusing you. If you're being attacked and you feel it's a life and death situation, run, or you better have the right tools to end the confrontation fast.

 

[SaleenS7Rs]

No one should have the right "tools" to end the confrontation. Minus the police.

 

[Olyar15]

I haven't been following the trial, so I don't know what evidence was presented, but the problem I have with allowing Zimmerman to be acquitted is that it basically allows anyone to get away with murder in that state. All one has to do to kill someone they don't like is to get into a fight with them, let them hit you a few times, then shoot them. Pretty scary precedent.

 

[KSXNSX]

I must be overlooking it. If not, here we go!

Can anyone make a case for murder in the second degree, or manslaughter even?

Because one person (an unarmed teenager) is dead, and the other (who caused that death) is alive.

Look up the definition of both. What happened, and what you said (even with all your arguments for his innocence), arguably fit into both definitions.

Here's the guy following you around by the way. He's armed, and following you when you are running home.

The guy had a history of violence, and his own cousin said he had a problem with African Americans.

"In July 2005, he was arrested for “resisting officer with violence.” The neighborhood watch volunteer who wanted to be a cop got into a scuffle with cops who were questioning a friend for alleged underage drinking. The charges were reduced and then waived after he entered an alcohol education program. Then in August 2005, Zimmerman’s former fiance sought a restraining order against him because of domestic violence. Zimmerman sought a restraining order against her in return. Both were granted. Meanwhile, over the course of eight years, Zimmerman made at least 46 calls to the Sanford (Fla.) Police Department reporting suspicious activity involving black males.
We also know that Witness No. 9 accused Zimmerman of molesting her when they were children. The relative’s revelation is appalling but irrelevant. What most folks don’t know is that Witness No. 9 made an explosive allegation against her cousin. “I know George. And I know that he does not like black people,” she told a Sanford police officer during a telephone call in which she pleaded for anonymity. “He would start something. He’s a very confrontational person. It’s in his blood. Let’s just say that. I don’t want this poor kid and his family to just be overlooked.” At the end of the call, Witness No. 9 urged the officer to “get character reports from other people and see if he’s ever said anything about black people, about being racist or anything like that because I guarantee you there’s somebody out there who will say it.”"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2013/05/28/george-zimmermans-relevant-past/

Martin was on the phone with a witness, who provided an court-approved affidavit of what happened when an armed Zimmerman falsely profiled Martin, stalked him, followed him, and confronted him:

"During the recorded call Zimmerman made reference to people he felt had committed and gotten away with break-ins in his neighborhood. Later while talking about Martin, Zimmerman stated 'these a**holes, they always get away," and also said 'these f****** punks.' "
As the incident was unfolding, Martin was on the phone with a friend, the affidavit says. "The witness advised that Martin was scared because he was being followed through the complex by an unknown male and didn't know why. Martin attempted to run home but was followed by Zimmerman who didn't want the person he falsely assumed was going to commit a crime to get away before the police arrived. Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and followed Martin. When the police dispatcher realized Zimmerman was pursuing Martin, he instructed Zimmerman not to do that and that the responding officer would meet him. Zimmerman disregarded the police dispatcher and continued to follow Martin who was trying to return to his home.
"Zimmerman confronted Martin and a struggle ensued. Witnesses heard people arguing and what sounded like a struggle."
Calls to 911 captured a voice crying for help; that voice belonged to Martin, according to his mother; the neighborhood watch volunteer's relatives have said the voice was Zimmerman's.
"Zimmerman shot Martin in the chest. When police arrived Zimmerman admitted shooting Martin.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/12/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?_s=PM:JUSTICE

For those arguing behind the Stand Your Ground statute, it applies more for Martin than Zimmerman, as Zimmerman was the one who confronted Martin.

I don't believe Zimmerman armed himself that day planning to kill Martin. He didn't even know him. But he did plan on looking for some bad guys, and set out with bias against someone of Martin's physical characteristics. He followed him, stalked him, and confronted him. He also shot him.

You insist he was defending himself, but is it self-defense when you chase someone down when you are armed with a gun and start a confrontation? Remember: Zimmerman started out in his car that night. He then got out, and followed Martin as Martin was walking home. Doesn't sound like it to me. No one, but those two know who threw the first punch. But there are enough facts to at least prosecute him for second-degree murder and manslaughter. No one is arguing is it was first-degree murder/premeditated.

And no matter what really happened, or who is innocent, it's really up to that jury what Zimmerman's fate is. The justice system isn't about truth. It's about how much evidence gets presented to sway a jury's decision. Unfortunately, the prosecution has a tough burden: beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[naaman]

Interesting. I have not been following the case either. And since I wasn't there, this is all pretty much worthless commentary, but being shot "in the chest" means that Martin was facing Zimmerman when he was shot. This raises the question in my mind, "did Martin have time to realize that Zimmerman had a gun? And if so, what what his response?" If Martin attemted to surrender before being shot, then we have murder. If Martin continued to attack, it becomes a more gray area.

Here's a fact: you need three things to justify homicide: Intent, Capability, and Opportunity on the part of the attacker. If Zimmerman can reasonably articulate that HE BELIEVED that he was in immediate danger of grave bodily injury or death, then the homicide is justifiable. That is, can Zimmerman prove that Martin had the intent, capability and opportunity to kill or "gravely injure" him? If so, then it is a self defense killing, or justifiable homicide. Just getting your @$$ kicked is not really justification for using lethal force in self defense.

Also, the "stand your ground" law applies to the person being attacked, not (necessarily) the one who "confronted" the other. If at any time the tables turn, the situation also reverses. The aggressor is the person who continues to attack even when the other party tries to stop the fight.

- - - Updated - - -

You insist he was defending himself, but is it self-defense when you chase someone down when you are armed with a gun and start a confrontation?

Technically, it is self defense when the aggressor (in this instance, clearly Treyvon) can be reasonably shown to meet those three criteria listed above: intent, capability and opportunity. In any confrontation, who is defined as the aggressor can change back and forth. Once you start "winning" the fight, if the person losing tries to deescalate, but you continue to press on, you then become the aggressor, even though that person may have thrown the first punch. Or, if you beat the person up (in self defense) so badly that they cannot fight back, yet you continue whaling on them, you are now the aggressor. And both of you would be guilty (or, at least chargable) with violent offenses.

It doesn't matter who confronted who. What matters is whether the man who pulled the trigger REASONABLY believed that he could not survive the situation any other way, that he was truly pushed to his last possible resort for survival.

- - - Updated - - -

I haven't been following the trial, so I don't know what evidence was presented, but the problem I have with allowing Zimmerman to be acquitted is that it basically allows anyone to get away with murder in that state. All one has to do to kill someone they don't like is to get into a fight with them, let them hit you a few times, then shoot them. Pretty scary precedent.

On the other hand, what we would be dealing with in that case is premeditated murder. And the way that cases go, such motives would almost certainly come to the surface.

- - - Updated - - -

No one should have the right "tools" to end the confrontation. Minus the police.

The Bill of Rights disagress with you. The fact is that the primary reason police have "tools" is for self defense. American citizens are born with the right to self defense.

 

[nsxotic911]

"...In July 2005, he was arrested for “resisting officer with violence.” The neighborhood watch volunteer who wanted to be a cop got into a scuffle with cops who were questioning a friend for alleged underage drinking. The charges were reduced and then waived after he entered an alcohol education program..."

Here's another person resisting arrest:
http://newsroom.blogs.cnn.com/2013/...-sexual-assault-during-search/?iref=obnetwork

 

[shawn110975]

only god knows what really happened I hope the truth comes out but did you know how much money the parents have made off this I think they said 10 million or something interviews selling t-shirts
etc. they both have new mercedes benz now and a new house.

like that guy that that his daughter was found under a trailerpark home he made like 30 million, started a foundation in her name, they passed new laws for the dad. he went and spent all the money on 13 new Harley Davidsons, trucks new boats etc. make you sick, now he is under investigation for fraud or something

Florida is a f---ed up State trust me I live here.

 

[naaman]

"...In July 2005, he was arrested for “resisting officer with violence.” The neighborhood watch volunteer who wanted to be a cop got into a scuffle with cops who were questioning a friend for alleged underage drinking. The charges were reduced and then waived after he entered an alcohol education program..."

Here's another person resisting arrest:
http://newsroom.blogs.cnn.com/2013/...-sexual-assault-during-search/?iref=obnetwork

Wow...that woman is clearly distraught in the video. If she were making "false accusations" her countenance would have been much different. I can understand wanting to protect your buddies/colleagues, but once certain things are said, you have to stop and investigate. Plain and simple.

 

[Caustic]

I have not been following the case. But it is my understanding that Zimmerman called the police about a suspicious person, and the police told him to stay away, or stop following.

I hope Zimmerman understands to the end of his days, from that point on he prompted a situation in which he ended a 17 year old's life, a life which barely started. SMH.

 

[peiserg]

I'm firmly in the WGAF club