Next Gen Engine from the IRL ?

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I know this subject has been beat to death, but after searching this site on the topic of the Next Gen NSX I couldn't help but notice and reply. I couldn't have been the only one that picked up the announcement by Honda before the Indy 500 that they intended to be an engine provider for the IRL in 2003 and have contracted with Illmor engineering to development the engine. At the risk of getting a reply from the "Forums Nazi" have we overlooked what direction Honda may be heading into. I've seen the posts with respect to a V8 and the new engine being based off the new RL power plant. That may be more true than we think. The IRL (Indy Racing League) rules state 3.5 liters V8-32v DOHC or 213 c/i. My thought is this:
1)Honda hasn't had much world wide racing attention for a few years. Excluding the BAR & Jordon Teams in F-1 which arn't doing anything & CART which appears to be coming more inline with the IRL. No F-1 world champs and no Indy 500 wins.
2)F-1 would be to tough for them to re-enter due to the established front runners that already exist and Toyota is already there.
3)Nissan almost pulled off a Indy win this year if Tomas Sheckter hadn't run the hell out of his car, and Toyota already has millons invested in F-1 and not sure, but didn't they win a 500.
4)More than 1/2 of all NSX are sold in the US.(New RL-2003 & new NSX 2004?)
5)Much of the world acknowledges that the Indy 500 could be one of the greatest single racing event in the world.

From what i've read in past forums, Honda may not be in tune with marketing in this country when it comes to the NSX, however they arn't stupid when it comes to dollars invested and return for the investment. The IRL is going to give them the best bang for the buck and the V8 based off the spec IRL engine has most likley been developed and/or been in planning stages as far back as early 2001 with engine development. Honda knew they were not going back to F-1 as a large supporting program and CART was gonna have to fall in line with the IRL if they wanted to play @ the 500. Its going to be interesting to watch when the new RL comes out for its lone overdue re-design and supposed bigger engine. If they deliver on a V8 in the RL, we may be seeing the basis for the next gen NSX engine as many of you have already stated. Just my .04 cents worth.

[This message has been edited by Tom Larkins (edited 11 June 2002).]
 
With production numbers as low as they are I wouldn't be surprised that honda will drop the NSX from their line up. Toyota dropped the supra because they couldn't get the numbers up and they were over 2000 to 3000 units a tear sold. The only thing that may save the car is that Honda will be introducing a V8 to the market soon
 
I don't think Honda will drop the NSX from their line. True, total numbers sold is very low, especially for a car that has been in production for over 10 years. However, based on that Honda could have dropped the car already around '95 when sales already had dropped considerably.
Personally, I think the NSX is truly the only Japanes supersportscar that can rival with both Porsche and Ferrari. Givin up on it would literally send the message that Honda cannot keep up with those marques and would definitely damage Honda's/Acura image.
Ever since Toichiro past away it seems that Honda had been in a state of slumber concerning performance cars but I think that in the last two years Honda seems to be coming around again on this subject.
 
Originally posted by MvM:
I don't think Honda will drop the NSX from their line. True, total numbers sold is very low, especially for a car that has been in production for over 10 years. However, based on that Honda could have dropped the car already around '95 when sales already had dropped considerably.
Personally, I think the NSX is truly the only Japanes supersportscar that can rival with both Porsche and Ferrari. Givin up on it would literally send the message that Honda cannot keep up with those marques and would definitely damage Honda's/Acura image.
Ever since Toichiro past away it seems that Honda had been in a state of slumber concerning performance cars but I think that in the last two years Honda seems to be coming around again on this subject.

My thoughts exactly! YOu've read my mind!
biggrin.gif
 
Originally posted by MvM:

Personally, I think the NSX is truly the only Japanes supersportscar that can rival with both Porsche and Ferrari. Giving up on it would literally send the message that Honda cannot keep up with those marques and would definitely damage Honda's/Acura image.
B]


MvM
Tell me if i'm wrong. Ferrari hangs its racing hat on F-1 while Porsche clings to a racing tradition @ LeMans. Acura has already done the F-1 thing and was quite good at it, the next logical step would be for them to capitalize on Indy and its going to be more cost effective for them to do so than a F-1 program again. The NSX won't die do to lack of current sales. If it were so, then Nissan is foolish with the 350z going into production in 03, it just happens to be a 3.5 liter car ?
 
Honda is eco-driven, and a V-8, though mags like Motor Trend claim it's coming, does not seem to fit with their corporate philosophy.

As for marketing and the NSX, Honda blew this royalty, IF, corporate intent was to sell lots of cars!?!?!

If Honda had won a couple of Indy's, sales of the NSX would have been better.

The vehicle, as we all know, is so "unknown" that only massive amounts of TV advertising coupled with a successful, high-profile racing campaign could ever help to improve sales (assuming current price and features).

If may be that Honda can continue to make about five hundred cars a year. On a revenue basis, 500 cars at $80K translates to a paltry 40 million in revenue for a multi-billion dollar company. Maybe it's enough to cover the overhead. Who knows.

The trend is clear though it surprises me. A super-sports car these days needs at least 350-400 HP.

There has not been a better time for folks with lots o' bucks to buy any one of a dozen or more superb sports cars. This is a tough market to compete in.

Now Ford is making an GT-40 clone... look at the specs and cost...

Do you want one?
 
Originally posted by nsxman:
Now Ford is making an GT-40 clone... look at the specs and cost...

Do you want one?

Yes, deposit is already down. Or was that rhetorical?
 
Personally I don't think Honda is that eco-driven. Current trent is that while car companies are creating and marketing high-milage cars more and more, at the same time the average car is getting heavier with a stronger engine and higher top speed. For example, Volkswagen is marketing a 3-liter car in Europe (meaning, using 3 liters of fuel per 100km) at the same time the are starting their Phaeton car which is bigger, stronger, faster and more expensive than any VW they ever made.
In the end Honda, like any manufacturer, will make the models their customers will buy.
 
Originally posted by POWERED by HONDA:
and also to showcase the next gen NSX as the pacecar for the Indy 500?


Wouldn't mind seeing that happen, however no foreign made car has ever been a pace car @ the 500. Does'nt mean it wouldn't happen though.. The IRL is gonna race at Twin Ring Motegi in 2003 and it sure would be neat to see a prototype as a pace car. That will be IRL's first race outside the US. Honda is up to something here, you just don't play these type of cards with Tony George whom happens to be the CEO of IMS and the IRL. He was looking for something and got it and thats a major player as an engine supplyier in addition to getting in on CART turf. He will have to give something in return with a 3 year deal signed with Honda.
 
Its official that the new Accord (Sept 02 as an 03) is getting the 3.5 Odyssey engine (240 HP) and at 1000 lbs lighter - should be a screamer. Haven't heard for sure if I-VTEC or not, but if so - another 10 HP would be easy.

With the dramatic sales and future production of this engine - I believe this is the next NSX engine.

With the current output of the S2000 (120 hp/liter) you could have 420 HP! Even if they back that down to 400 you would have a screamer. Add to that a clutchless shifter, more weight savings, and you have a great new supercar that retains many of the parts and development costs of the gen 1 NSX's.

My prediction for the price = $65,000. You look at the S2000 price positioning against the Boxster and you have $32k vs. $50k. I think you will have a similar difference between the GenII NSX and a 996.

Just my opinion / YMMV / Can't wait to see who is right on this...

------------------
Nick Matteucci

91' Red/Black with Many Mods
99' Honda Odyssey with Many Kids
 
Originally posted by Tom Larkins:

Nissan almost pulled off a Indy win this year


FYI- Heard on Speed Channel yesterday that Nissan-Infiniti will not supply engines for the IRL next year. Reason stated: Deposits of 6,000 on the new z car with a goal they believe of 20,000 produced for 2003. Is that truth or corporate verbage for "lets get out so we don't have to compete against the new Honda engine". That leaves Chevy and Honda as the sole egine suppliers next year.
 
Originally posted by Tom Larkins:
FYI- Heard on Speed Channel yesterday that Nissan-Infiniti will not supply engines for the IRL next year. Reason stated: Deposits of 6,000 on the new z car with a goal they believe of 20,000 produced for 2003. Is that truth or corporate verbage for "lets get out so we don't have to compete against the new Honda engine". That leaves Chevy and Honda as the sole egine suppliers next year.

I wouldn't doubt it.

I believe Toyota is going in as well.
 
Andretti/Green Racing is leaving CART for the IRL next year. Is it an indication that Honda needs a more established team to run a new engine program starting in 03 @ 3.5 liters or dare I say the next gen NSX engine ? Certainly Not !!! I know their isn't much going on w/CART and Team Green has been loyal to Honda, but to pull that type of team away to a new spec engine has got to be good news for us and the new motor must be nearly ready to go as off-season testing normally starts within a few months.
 
Originally posted by matteni:


With the dramatic sales and future production of this engine - I believe this is the next NSX engine.

You think the NSX will share its engine with a mini-van????
 
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