Just want to say hello, i have been trolling the site for years and just got a email account that is accepted by the site :smile: so i decided to go ahead and join. Dont own a NSX.......yet, seriously looking though.
New Member looking to buy
- Thread starter BNKRUPT
- Start date
Welcome!
I just bought mine 4 days ago and couldnt be happier
I just bought mine 4 days ago and couldnt be happier
fastaussie
Suspended
g'day guys, got a couple questions myself if anyone's interested in answering a few.
i don't yet own an NSX but will shortly however. i'm in the market for something in the '93 thru '96 range. manual for sure. i love these cars in white, silver or green, but will most likely have to get a red one to match the Ducati's in my garage. it just seems silly any other way.
i know most of the major problems (snap rings, power windows regulators, etc.) were in the earlier years. besides the "T" option, are there any advantages to any one year over another? what are the major things to look out for/check on? i'd of course get the car thoroughly examined at an Acura dealer, and check the service on the water pump and timing belt. as i understand it there was some sort of power steering assist added in 1995? i've never driven one of these models, is it a good thing or bad?
thanx heaps guys, any assistance would be greatly appreciated, as i'm sure your wisdom trumps mine on these marvelous automobiles...
i don't yet own an NSX but will shortly however. i'm in the market for something in the '93 thru '96 range. manual for sure. i love these cars in white, silver or green, but will most likely have to get a red one to match the Ducati's in my garage. it just seems silly any other way.
i know most of the major problems (snap rings, power windows regulators, etc.) were in the earlier years. besides the "T" option, are there any advantages to any one year over another? what are the major things to look out for/check on? i'd of course get the car thoroughly examined at an Acura dealer, and check the service on the water pump and timing belt. as i understand it there was some sort of power steering assist added in 1995? i've never driven one of these models, is it a good thing or bad?
thanx heaps guys, any assistance would be greatly appreciated, as i'm sure your wisdom trumps mine on these marvelous automobiles...
For both posters-
Look for maintenence records. They are critical and can mean thousands of dollars in difference as to the overall cost of your NSX purchase. If there are no records, or spotty records, assume the NSX will need all services performed. This can be $5000 or more, which you should factor into your purchase price. As for the specific major services to look for, they are:
1. Timing belt and water pump service within the last 6-7 years or 90k miles;
2. All 23 coolant hoses changed within the last 6-7 years;
3. Brakes, ABS and clutch flushed within the last 3 years;
4. Transmission fluid changed within last 2 years or 30k miles;
5. Oil changed within last year or 7500 miles.
In addition, these are the typical NSX "condition" items you need to look for:
1. A/C system blows cold and control unit fully functions on all settings;
2. Clutch master cylinder leaking. Look for a wet stain/drip behind the pedals. If the master is bad, the slave is probably right behind. Replace both;
3. Radio/speakers function normally. They nortoriously go bad due to the amps;
4. Harmonic damper. On the older cars, this is a serious issue. If it is all rusty and the rubber is cracked, it needs to be replaced. It can explode, cut through the timing case and destroy your engine. Usually a good idea to do this with the TB/WP service;
5. CV joint boots. Due to the high heat in the engine bay, they tend to crack/leak. Look for a brown/black spray pattern on nearby components, which indicates a leaky boot slinging grease.
6. General engine oil leaks. Again, high heat is the culprit. Look at valve covers, oil pan and spool valves to spot oil drips.
I would NOT recommend having an inspection done by an Acura dealer, unless they are a dealer with known extensive NSX experience. Many dealer techs have not seen a NSX in years and will not know about the above issues. Much better to find a NSX independent like Shad, Basch, LarryB, Coz, Eiffel or Barnman, who will know what to look for. I had an Acura tech do a $200 PPI on my NSX and he said it was in "great condition." It actually needed over $5000 in work (thank God for LarryB
).
As for the years, here are my quick thoughts in order of preference (totally my opinion only):
a.) 97-01 Coupes (hard tops) = the ultimate NSX experience, which includes the 1999 Zanardi Edition. The lightest, most rigid and fastest NSXs sold in North America.
b.) 91-94 Coupes = great for more performance-minded owners. Very rigid and light. "Laggy" second gear can be frustrating to some, but available Japan "short gears" transform the car. Some street cred for being the "original" NSX.
c.) 97-01 T-Tops = awesome warm-weather NSX version. Heavier and a little wobbly without the roof, but still better than most cars. Cool fun factor of the open roof. 6-speed and 3.2 are the best engine/trans for the car.
d.) 02-05 T-Tops = same as above, with the bug-eyed body update. I like the flip-ups more than the bug eyes.
e.) 95-96 T-Tops = arguably the "worst" NSX version in terms of performance. Heavier and without the rigidity improvements of the 97+ cars. You can get the fun factor of the T Top for a lower price, though. Remember, "worst" here is relative. They are still better than most cars.
f.) 91-05 Autos = if you must, you can get these for usually a lot less than the manuals. It will give you the NSX experience, but toned down due to the long gears and reduced-power engine. Maybe good for a daily driver or boulevard cruiser I guess...
As a general rule, NSXs within the above ranges are generally the same. These are ultra-high quality, hand built cars. If they are well maintained, a 91 is just as good as a 94, a 97 is just as good as a 2000, etc. I would suggest always taking the better maintained car over the lesser maintained car, even if the miles are higher or the car is older.
The steering system you mention is the Electric Power Steering (EPS) system. It is a marvel of engineering and totally cures the NSX's nortoriously heavy slow-speed steering effort. I have driven EPS NSXs and I don't care for it. I like manual steering in my sports cars because I get better feedback from the road. Also, Honda is no longer supporting the EPS system and replacement/repair is hugely expensive.
Hope this helps.
Look for maintenence records. They are critical and can mean thousands of dollars in difference as to the overall cost of your NSX purchase. If there are no records, or spotty records, assume the NSX will need all services performed. This can be $5000 or more, which you should factor into your purchase price. As for the specific major services to look for, they are:
1. Timing belt and water pump service within the last 6-7 years or 90k miles;
2. All 23 coolant hoses changed within the last 6-7 years;
3. Brakes, ABS and clutch flushed within the last 3 years;
4. Transmission fluid changed within last 2 years or 30k miles;
5. Oil changed within last year or 7500 miles.
In addition, these are the typical NSX "condition" items you need to look for:
1. A/C system blows cold and control unit fully functions on all settings;
2. Clutch master cylinder leaking. Look for a wet stain/drip behind the pedals. If the master is bad, the slave is probably right behind. Replace both;
3. Radio/speakers function normally. They nortoriously go bad due to the amps;
4. Harmonic damper. On the older cars, this is a serious issue. If it is all rusty and the rubber is cracked, it needs to be replaced. It can explode, cut through the timing case and destroy your engine. Usually a good idea to do this with the TB/WP service;
5. CV joint boots. Due to the high heat in the engine bay, they tend to crack/leak. Look for a brown/black spray pattern on nearby components, which indicates a leaky boot slinging grease.
6. General engine oil leaks. Again, high heat is the culprit. Look at valve covers, oil pan and spool valves to spot oil drips.
I would NOT recommend having an inspection done by an Acura dealer, unless they are a dealer with known extensive NSX experience. Many dealer techs have not seen a NSX in years and will not know about the above issues. Much better to find a NSX independent like Shad, Basch, LarryB, Coz, Eiffel or Barnman, who will know what to look for. I had an Acura tech do a $200 PPI on my NSX and he said it was in "great condition." It actually needed over $5000 in work (thank God for LarryB
).As for the years, here are my quick thoughts in order of preference (totally my opinion only):
a.) 97-01 Coupes (hard tops) = the ultimate NSX experience, which includes the 1999 Zanardi Edition. The lightest, most rigid and fastest NSXs sold in North America.
b.) 91-94 Coupes = great for more performance-minded owners. Very rigid and light. "Laggy" second gear can be frustrating to some, but available Japan "short gears" transform the car. Some street cred for being the "original" NSX.
c.) 97-01 T-Tops = awesome warm-weather NSX version. Heavier and a little wobbly without the roof, but still better than most cars. Cool fun factor of the open roof. 6-speed and 3.2 are the best engine/trans for the car.
d.) 02-05 T-Tops = same as above, with the bug-eyed body update. I like the flip-ups more than the bug eyes.
e.) 95-96 T-Tops = arguably the "worst" NSX version in terms of performance. Heavier and without the rigidity improvements of the 97+ cars. You can get the fun factor of the T Top for a lower price, though. Remember, "worst" here is relative. They are still better than most cars.
f.) 91-05 Autos = if you must, you can get these for usually a lot less than the manuals. It will give you the NSX experience, but toned down due to the long gears and reduced-power engine. Maybe good for a daily driver or boulevard cruiser I guess...
As a general rule, NSXs within the above ranges are generally the same. These are ultra-high quality, hand built cars. If they are well maintained, a 91 is just as good as a 94, a 97 is just as good as a 2000, etc. I would suggest always taking the better maintained car over the lesser maintained car, even if the miles are higher or the car is older.
The steering system you mention is the Electric Power Steering (EPS) system. It is a marvel of engineering and totally cures the NSX's nortoriously heavy slow-speed steering effort. I have driven EPS NSXs and I don't care for it. I like manual steering in my sports cars because I get better feedback from the road. Also, Honda is no longer supporting the EPS system and replacement/repair is hugely expensive.
Hope this helps.
Id say that the 94 is the best over all besides the NA2 hard tops which are super hard to find. The 94 you get both air bags, no power steering (which is great), lighter weight, hard top (obviously), and you dont have to worry about the snap ring issue. Basically a 93 is the same, but the 94 is a year newer. I would not get a 95-96. I agree with the poster above also. Make sure the service is up to date. A short geared car is a completely different experience. Oh yeah, if your in Bham Alabama, Barney in Nashville is your PPI man
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fastaussie
Suspended
thanx heaps again Honcho and D1 Guy, i massively appreciate the insight.
so it sounds like a '93 or '94 NSX is the way to go based on your opinions and my budget. i would absolutely love a Zanardi edition, but don't think i could afford one, nor have i even seen one for sale in quite some time.
when was the Electric Power Steering system added to the NSX, which years had it? i thought i heard it was added in 1995? i'm guessing it was an option? how would you know if the car had it or not?
and lastly, who in FL is an NSX specialist that could thoroughly check out the car?
thanx boys...
(soon to be) Acura NSX
Infiniti G35
Ducati 1098S
Ducati 900 ss cr
so it sounds like a '93 or '94 NSX is the way to go based on your opinions and my budget. i would absolutely love a Zanardi edition, but don't think i could afford one, nor have i even seen one for sale in quite some time.
when was the Electric Power Steering system added to the NSX, which years had it? i thought i heard it was added in 1995? i'm guessing it was an option? how would you know if the car had it or not?
and lastly, who in FL is an NSX specialist that could thoroughly check out the car?
thanx boys...
(soon to be) Acura NSX
Infiniti G35
Ducati 1098S
Ducati 900 ss cr
In Orlando, only one person to see: Nabil at First Class Automotive on E. Colonial across from the Fashion Square Mall
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i get defensive about these threads,having a 95.drove a 94 before i got it,said this is my dream car,and in the dream,the sun's shining in, so i got a targa. let's put that "slowest" tag in perspective.drive a 94,then put a 100 lb. kid (weight added after that year) in the car,then drive it again.i defy you to feel the difference.maybe a tenth or two in the quarter,which you could probably only notice at the track at the limit.then,the 95 fixes the rpm drop into 2nd with a better gear ratio,maybe giving a tenth or so back.the 97+s have 6 speeds,but i think the five-speed has a better feel,less notchy.
also,these are hand built cars,with variation. my mechanic said since i didn't hit the rpm cutout until 8300 rpm,i have maybe 10-15 more hp.two mechanics have told me it's one of the faster stock nsx's they've driven,regardless of year.
my advice:find one that's been well taken care of,the best you can afford,and enjoy it.
also,these are hand built cars,with variation. my mechanic said since i didn't hit the rpm cutout until 8300 rpm,i have maybe 10-15 more hp.two mechanics have told me it's one of the faster stock nsx's they've driven,regardless of year.
my advice:find one that's been well taken care of,the best you can afford,and enjoy it.
If I'm not mistaken, maximum HP is achieved at 7000 rpm, so getting to 8300 isn't gonna do much for adding more.
fastaussie
Suspended
thanx again for all the info...
shawn110975
Suspended
I tell all new owners before they purchase to read this article about buying a used NSX it will educate you on all subjects of these cars.
heres the link
http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/includes/htup_0810_acura_nsx_buyers_guide/index.html
there a 4 pages so read them all. print it out and add it to your long term memory
goodluck
heres the link
http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/includes/htup_0810_acura_nsx_buyers_guide/index.html
there a 4 pages so read them all. print it out and add it to your long term memory
goodluck
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Everyone so far has mentioned maintenance. Yes I agree this spring I will shell out thousands. But honestly is it really needed to the extent of numbers, like 60k or 7years. No one has mentioned other variables to the equation of maintenance. #1 who's driving the car, and how are they driving it. #2 what weather conditions has the car lived a portion of its life in. #3 was the car properly stored its entire life. Etc. I will honestly take an nsx that's been properly stored and driven lightly with a 7 year old timing belt/ water pump. Than an nsx that's been redlined every day with a one year old timing belt. The reason im gona shell thousands this spring is basically for someone that will want to buy my car in the future.
Glad I have a 94 after reading this although I wish I has power steering, good luck
Rubber parts can dry and become brittle with age. Replacement is just cheap insurance compared to the alternative. While I'm not aware of anyone who has had a broken timing belt, the repairs that one faces in such an event aren't going to be very friendly on the wallet. I am aware of, and have actually witnessed, coolant hose failure. The driver of the NSX did not notice it until I flagged him over. By that time, his temp gauge had already started to climb. Needless to say, had that gone on for much longer, repairs would have been costly as well. For many here, coolant hose replacement is simply part of preventive maintenance.
shawn110975
Suspended
power steering??? LOL you mean electric power assisted, its not like real power steering, with a belt turning a steering pump,you dont even really notice the difference. just adds weight.
and yes anything rubber even if it stored in a air tight bubble for 20 years
the rubber will rot.
your thinking is all backwards, I would rather drive a car with a 1 year old timing belt that has been redlined everyday, than a car with a 7 year old belt and never driven. you get in the car rev it up and since the rubber has slowly been rotting away, and now its getting stretched and pulled on its gonna crack and break.
now the car that has been driven redlined everyday, that belt has been stretched and pulled so it is flexable and stronger than the never used belt with age. will not crack and break.
and yes anything rubber even if it stored in a air tight bubble for 20 years
the rubber will rot.
your thinking is all backwards, I would rather drive a car with a 1 year old timing belt that has been redlined everyday, than a car with a 7 year old belt and never driven. you get in the car rev it up and since the rubber has slowly been rotting away, and now its getting stretched and pulled on its gonna crack and break.
now the car that has been driven redlined everyday, that belt has been stretched and pulled so it is flexable and stronger than the never used belt with age. will not crack and break.
I try to take my car to the red line once a day. It's usually just a romp in 2nd gear up the on-ramp to the highway, but it's better than nothing! I also would rather have a car that is regularly driven with enthusiasm than a car that rarely gets exercised.
On the other hand, I would miss my power steering. Having parallel parked both, it's better to have than not.
On the other hand, I would miss my power steering. Having parallel parked both, it's better to have than not.
This issue has been discussed and validated many times here on Prime, but briefly: the timing belt is made of rubber with nylon cords inside it. When exposed to air, the rubber dries out and becomes brittle over time. This makes it lose its flexibility and tensile strength. This does not mean that after 7 years and 1 day, the belt will snap. It't probably won't. All it means is that Honda's engineers determined that 6 or 7 years was a safe point where 99% of timing belts would still be good, but begin to significantly degrade afterwards. Knowing Honda, this is probably a very conservative estimate. Indeed, there are plenty of NSXs and other Hondas running around with 15+ year old belts. But, if that belt snaps and grenades your engine...well you rolled the dice and you lost. Btw, my brother's Integra just had this happen- his TB was 10 years old. Like Shawn, I'll take the NSX with the new timing belt.
I think the reason you see this tone from many NSX owners when these topics come up is that many of us have been with the car long enough to learn that ignoring maintenence ends up much more painful, expensive and annoying than doing the maintenence at the specified intervals. Every once in a while you'll see threads where a relatively new owner posts something like "My ABS light came on and the sysytem is making all this noise. I thought this was supposed to be a super reliable car? The Acura dealer told me it would be $4000 to fix! The ABS sucks on this car! The NSX sucks! I'm gonna sell this crappy car."
Then someone usually asks something like "Do you know the last time the ABS system was flushed?"
"Well, no. I don't have any records, but I got a great deal. $19,XXX"
"Ok, but why didn't you have the system flushed after you bought it?"
"The seller told me it was all up to date and this car was supposed to be so relaible. I was looking at some Vettes, but I played this car on Gran Turismo all the time and I love it. But now, I think I'm gonna sell it cause it's got all these problems."
Next thing you know, this guy is on Rennlist or the vette forums trashing the NSX and telling everyone what a POS it is. This is a funny example, but all it means is that you need to do the maintenence and you can't whine about the car when you don't and something expensive breaks. That pretty much goes for any car, but with the NSX it's critical because repairs are so expensive. If it is up to date, the NSX is indeed a very carefree and easy ownership experience compared to other brands like Porsche and Ferrari. You just have to budget for maintenence in your purchase calculation, which is important for the original posters here to know.
I think the reason you see this tone from many NSX owners when these topics come up is that many of us have been with the car long enough to learn that ignoring maintenence ends up much more painful, expensive and annoying than doing the maintenence at the specified intervals. Every once in a while you'll see threads where a relatively new owner posts something like "My ABS light came on and the sysytem is making all this noise. I thought this was supposed to be a super reliable car? The Acura dealer told me it would be $4000 to fix! The ABS sucks on this car! The NSX sucks! I'm gonna sell this crappy car."
Then someone usually asks something like "Do you know the last time the ABS system was flushed?"
"Well, no. I don't have any records, but I got a great deal. $19,XXX"
"Ok, but why didn't you have the system flushed after you bought it?"
"The seller told me it was all up to date and this car was supposed to be so relaible. I was looking at some Vettes, but I played this car on Gran Turismo all the time and I love it. But now, I think I'm gonna sell it cause it's got all these problems."
Next thing you know, this guy is on Rennlist or the vette forums trashing the NSX and telling everyone what a POS it is. This is a funny example, but all it means is that you need to do the maintenence and you can't whine about the car when you don't and something expensive breaks. That pretty much goes for any car, but with the NSX it's critical because repairs are so expensive. If it is up to date, the NSX is indeed a very carefree and easy ownership experience compared to other brands like Porsche and Ferrari. You just have to budget for maintenence in your purchase calculation, which is important for the original posters here to know.
Honcho's post and the link that Shawn provided are great aides to buying a used NSX. THere really isn't too much more that anyone can add to all these great posts and that is one of the great things about this site. So many knowledgeable people here that are willing to write and post and assist others looking to own. The Prime "family" is wonderful in many regards - you'll surely find this out as you hang out here and read and post.
The simple approach to buying any used car are basic to any of them:
1. Buy the newest one you can afford
2. Don't take a later model that hasn't been well maintained over an earlier one that has.
3. Shop with individual owners that can provide you with lots of maintenance history and records.
4. In my opinion I would suggest buying as low of mileage as you can afford. Personally I would rather have an earlier model with low miles than an NA2 with really high miles as in 100+ but there are good ones out there with higher miles - it all boils down to history and maintenance records.
5. It helps if for the predominance of the cars life it was owned by just a couple of owners.
6. Read a lot and stay on Prime a good while as in at least 6 mos. before you buy. You will find out many things that you would otherwise not know about the car and be better able to make a decision on which to buy and find the best deals out there for you. It is rare that you would just look in the ads today and find "the" perfect one -but it can happen - the funny thing is if you don't know much about the cars you may not know how good one that is currently being advertised really is!
I had this happen to me and I missed the car I still wish I had bought. So first thing is steel yourself for research and understanding what you can afford and if you find you can't afford a good one - save your money till you can. One thing that should be pretty clear from reading what has been posted here on this thread is that you are going to either pay up front for a good one or spend lots of bucks fixing the items that have been "deffered" as in deffered maintenance and believe me - THERE ARE A LOT OF EM OUT THERE! To find a really nice one you will pay a premium - low mileage with all maintenance taken care of are really RARE! They will often times cost 5k or more over another in so so condition.
I bought my 91 - with 43k miles on it - a stack of reciepts - and I put 5k in it getting it current on maintenance!!!!! See what I mean. You can easily buy a car that has high miles, not much maintenance history and spend 7k on it to get it into decent shape OR MORE! Less you pay up front the more you'll pay down the road of ownership. And then you many have more in it than it's worth. That's the risk you take and it may work out that way anyway. I most likely have just a tad more in mine than I could sell it for. But as they say - "how many of them are out there with super maintenance history and low miles?". NOT MANY- rarer than "hen's teeth" as they say. They're out there of course in happy owners hands that don't want to sell em.
Prime Marketplace is always a good place to start especially if you are looking for an early coupe. Anyone can go out and buy with confidence, short of an unknown accident, an 05 with 10k miles for 65k and know they will have little if anything to do. The patience comes when you only have 25k or maybe squeaking out 30k- that's when you need to think long and hard about your purchase. I would very much doubt if there are a handull for sale in the country right now that you could buy in that price range that won't cost you 5 to 7k more than the purchase price. If you find one you should consider yourself a very lucky man!
Good luck and stay with it. You'll be happy if you do it right! Most of us are!
The simple approach to buying any used car are basic to any of them:
1. Buy the newest one you can afford
2. Don't take a later model that hasn't been well maintained over an earlier one that has.
3. Shop with individual owners that can provide you with lots of maintenance history and records.
4. In my opinion I would suggest buying as low of mileage as you can afford. Personally I would rather have an earlier model with low miles than an NA2 with really high miles as in 100+ but there are good ones out there with higher miles - it all boils down to history and maintenance records.
5. It helps if for the predominance of the cars life it was owned by just a couple of owners.
6. Read a lot and stay on Prime a good while as in at least 6 mos. before you buy. You will find out many things that you would otherwise not know about the car and be better able to make a decision on which to buy and find the best deals out there for you. It is rare that you would just look in the ads today and find "the" perfect one -but it can happen - the funny thing is if you don't know much about the cars you may not know how good one that is currently being advertised really is!
I had this happen to me and I missed the car I still wish I had bought. So first thing is steel yourself for research and understanding what you can afford and if you find you can't afford a good one - save your money till you can. One thing that should be pretty clear from reading what has been posted here on this thread is that you are going to either pay up front for a good one or spend lots of bucks fixing the items that have been "deffered" as in deffered maintenance and believe me - THERE ARE A LOT OF EM OUT THERE! To find a really nice one you will pay a premium - low mileage with all maintenance taken care of are really RARE! They will often times cost 5k or more over another in so so condition.
I bought my 91 - with 43k miles on it - a stack of reciepts - and I put 5k in it getting it current on maintenance!!!!! See what I mean. You can easily buy a car that has high miles, not much maintenance history and spend 7k on it to get it into decent shape OR MORE! Less you pay up front the more you'll pay down the road of ownership. And then you many have more in it than it's worth. That's the risk you take and it may work out that way anyway. I most likely have just a tad more in mine than I could sell it for. But as they say - "how many of them are out there with super maintenance history and low miles?". NOT MANY- rarer than "hen's teeth" as they say. They're out there of course in happy owners hands that don't want to sell em.
Prime Marketplace is always a good place to start especially if you are looking for an early coupe. Anyone can go out and buy with confidence, short of an unknown accident, an 05 with 10k miles for 65k and know they will have little if anything to do. The patience comes when you only have 25k or maybe squeaking out 30k- that's when you need to think long and hard about your purchase. I would very much doubt if there are a handull for sale in the country right now that you could buy in that price range that won't cost you 5 to 7k more than the purchase price. If you find one you should consider yourself a very lucky man!
Good luck and stay with it. You'll be happy if you do it right! Most of us are!
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