My AP-X results and thoughts (Opinions)

Joined
24 August 2006
Messages
121
Location
Western Washington state
I installed the AP-X on my car back in Sept and had it mostly setup but never got a chance to tweak it to the way I wanted it until recently because work was very busy. I ran into a few minor issues because I either changed my mind or was being picky about the setup, but nothing major. Over all it was very easy. I've had turbo hondas, Twin turbo Rx-7's, Supra's and a 350z with the Greddy Twin turbo kit This kit is easy to install as a kit for a four banger honda (pretty easy)

Things I changed:

Went to Electronic boost controller vs Manual because I didn't like the way boost tapered off after it hit full boost. It's a small amount (.5psi) but I just wanted full boost to redline. Plus it's nice not to have to mess with the boost controller when the tempature changes.

Turned off the Meth Injection. My filter for the meth kit clogged two or three times. I caught it everytime because I always keep one eye on the AFR read out. To me for the amount of boost I'm running it was more of a hassle then it was worth.

Once I removed the meth out of the equation it was clear the stock fuel pump was maxed out. I like to see 11.0 to 11.5 when I have more then 3 psi of boost. It would slowly creep up to 12.4 by redliine. It's not a huge deal but it's not the idea situation. Not to mention a walbro 255 is only 99 bucks. It's a no brainer. With that installed I can maintain 11.0 to redline. I will say the 440's are to small for a NSX running 8psi. You should shoot for a max of 85% duty cycle in a perfect world. Mine are maxed out at 99% at red line. 550's would be the better choice. Do the 440's work? Yes, all day long, however the 550's cost the same and you can still maintain 14.7 at idle so why wouldn't you?

I also mounted a 8' spal fan on the intercooler. Other people haven't had a issue with this but when I first started dyno'ing at 8psi my IC would heat soak and the power dropped by 20-30 hp even with the meth injection on. It was a very hot day (95f) and on the dyno there is no really good way to get a fan in there for flow. I added the fan though on the street I don't think it makes much of a difference at all most the time.

I get a few question about the setup fairly often so I figure others have the same questions and I'll share my opinions on them.

Upgrading the turbo.
This comes up a lot. The turbo that comes with the kit is a custom turbo that Wil says is a T-67 size turbo with specs he picked after much testing. Does it do the job? Yep. Can you get a better turbo? Of course! Will the difference be worth it on a stock bottom ended NSX? Not in my opinion.
A Garrert GT series turbo thats the correct size will run you 1600 to 1900 bucks. (ATPturbo.com) what do you get for the money? More HP? Nope, your factory bottom end holds you back there. Will it spool faster? Yes! I'm guessing 500rpms or so. Currently I see full boost by 4200-4400 rpm. I haven't seen good back to back data on this yet. So is it worth it? Completely up to you.

Upgrading the Intercooler.
As I said above on a dyno there isn't enough flow to carry away the heat from the intercooler. On the street with boost events being relatively short
(15-30 seconds) and widely spaced it works. If I was going to a road track or built the bottom end then I'd upgrade to a air/water in a minute.

Upgrading the Headers.
Once again if you have the 97 and up style that are true headers you'll probably get a bit quicker spool up with aftermarket but you can't use the extra power on a stock bottom end. Once you go built, heck yes. The factory ones a durable and fit perfect. The nicer headers fit well and rarely have a problem, but they cost at least a grand.

So whats the end result?


2 pulls at 8 psi and 1 at 6psi. This was on a 224 dynojet. There is less of a load on the motor with this type of dyno because the car weighs more then the rollers. So my boost was a little low (7.85 psi) but it paints the picture well enough. Also its hard to see but my AFR is around 11.2 most the run. There is more HP available with less fuel but it's not worth it to me on a factory NA car with a turbo kit on it. If you read all of this I hope it helps the people out there that wanted to know more before they took the leap.
 
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Awesome Gary! We need to take another run!

Your power at 6psi is awesome compared to a comptech at the same boost.
 
I will be getting mine from Mase in about 2 weeks. Can't wait!! His install comes with a roller bearing billet turbo from Precision and an air to water intercooler and the 550cc injectors and Walbro pump.
 
I will be getting mine from Mase in about 2 weeks. Can't wait!! His install comes with a roller bearing billet turbo from Precision and an air to water intercooler and the 550cc injectors and Walbro pump.

Hi Bob,

I can't wait to see your car. I might have to drop by Mases when I get back and see how it is coming along.
 
I will be getting mine from Mase in about 2 weeks. Can't wait!! His install comes with a roller bearing billet turbo from Precision and an air to water intercooler and the 550cc injectors and Walbro pump.

That is a great setup. Keep us updated with how it goes. Are you picking it up or are your shipping it?
 
Great info in this review, thanks.
I will be installing the kit pretty soon, with a 40R turbo.

From you results, I will postpone buying the meth kit and see what I can do with 94oct and 750cc's. My car is mostly a track car so I will keep my eye on the temperatures, I should start working on water cooler set up.


Thanks you again, exellent review.

-MSR
 
Thanks Gary, just wanted to point out that it is the summit racing foam is the issue with the meth clogging and is easily deleted to solve the clogging. I am dissapointed with their customer service on that, they just told me over and over that "this is approved for methanol" well it's not and I am still searching for the right stuff.

In the mean time I do not use the foam and just ask everyone to remove the foam.
 
That is a great setup. Keep us updated with how it goes. Are you picking it up or are your shipping it?
I will be stopping by there on the way back from Chicago for the Holidays around the 10th of Jan. hopefully it will be done and I can drive it around, then I will probably rent a car in Ft Lauderdale and drive up and get the car and drive back down with a big smile on my face!!
 
O.k, hold on.
Are you saying that turbo that comes with the kit its not a Garrett, PTE or BW?
Who makes it?


The turbo that comes with the kit is a no name turbo that Wil says is a T-67 size turbo with specs he picked after much testing.





.
 
O.k, hold on.
Are you saying that turbo that comes with the kit it's not a Garrett, PTE or BW?
Who makes it?
Like I said, it is a Precision turbo. Their new style with billet wheels and all oil cooled with no need for water lines as it has a new center section cooling housing that dissipates the heat from cooling fins cast into the housing.
Merry Christmas to all Prime members!
 
O.k, hold on.
Are you saying that turbo that comes with the kit its not a Garrett, PTE or BW?
Who makes it?

Bob,
I think MSR is asking about the turbo that comes with Wil's kit. Keep us in the loop about your pick date. I'd love to see it when you pick it up. Though I'm sure NETVIPER will be lurking around Mase's while it's there. Just to makes things are going well. lol Not that he really wants a turbo. :wink:

MSR,
Correct. The standard turbo that comes with the kit is not made by any of those manufacturers. I'm not sure who does make it. Wil will replace it with any turbo you desire as a option.

To be honest I like the supplied turbo. It does make good predicable power. The car is a blast to drive with it. If you want more bottom end tq you can always just put a smaller turbine housing on it. Just like Cozmo did with nice results. There's always trade offs with turbo selection and Wil did a great job selecting the specs for a street NSX with stock bottom end. The target he stated was his goal from the beginning. Not to mention that makes up almost all NSX's but for a small fraction.

As I'm sure you know there are a lot more things to consider then just what rpm you make full boost at, such as thermal loading (increases with back pressure) transient boost response (like shifting and how long it takes to get full boost back) higher cylinder pressure at lower rpms is more likely to cause pre detonation (lots of tq down low). There are a ton of questions you need to ask yourself if your spec'ing out a turbo.

The GT4088 you picked is a awesome turbo! I have no doubt it'll rock and be worth every penny when your out on the track. I'm looking forward to the results. If I was to upgrade that was the one I was eyeing. But it'd just something else to play with for me because I wouldn't be using any of it's real capability on the street.
 
My 440 injectors were somewhere between 95 to 99% duty cycle on mine too at 8psi.

During my last tuning session with the EMS the boost was actually pretty solid (unlike the previous time where the spool up rpm varied wildly). That is using a TurboXS High performance boost controller (ball and spring type).

What kind of electronic controller did you get? I know the EMS can control them and you get get the solenoid from AEM. Does that let you just choose a PSI and it does the rest? I looked into the AEM Tru-boost and didn't like how people said the boost changes with the weather, and you have to choose the duty cycle rather than just set a boost level.
 
O.k, Thanks for the feedback again.

-MSR

Bob,
I think MSR is asking about the turbo that comes with Wil's kit. Keep us in the loop about your pick date. I'd love to see it when you pick it up. Though I'm sure NETVIPER will be lurking around Mase's while it's there. Just to makes things are going well. lol Not that he really wants a turbo. :wink:

MSR,
Correct. The standard turbo that comes with the kit is not made by any of those manufacturers. I'm not sure who does make it. Wil will replace it with any turbo you desire as a option.

To be honest I like the supplied turbo. It does make good predicable power. The car is a blast to drive with it. If you want more bottom end tq you can always just put a smaller turbine housing on it. Just like Cozmo did with nice results. There's always trade offs with turbo selection and Wil did a great job selecting the specs for a street NSX with stock bottom end. The target he stated was his goal from the beginning. Not to mention that makes up almost all NSX's but for a small fraction.

As I'm sure you know there are a lot more things to consider then just what rpm you make full boost at, such as thermal loading (increases with back pressure) transient boost response (like shifting and how long it takes to get full boost back) higher cylinder pressure at lower rpms is more likely to cause pre detonation (lots of tq down low). There are a ton of questions you need to ask yourself if your spec'ing out a turbo.

The GT4088 you picked is a awesome turbo! I have no doubt it'll rock and be worth every penny when your out on the track. I'm looking forward to the results. If I was to upgrade that was the one I was eyeing. But it'd just something else to play with for me because I wouldn't be using any of it's real capability on the street.
 
My 440 injectors were somewhere between 95 to 99% duty cycle on mine too at 8psi.

During my last tuning session with the EMS the boost was actually pretty solid (unlike the previous time where the spool up rpm varied wildly). That is using a TurboXS High performance boost controller (ball and spring type).

What kind of electronic controller did you get? I know the EMS can control them and you get get the solenoid from AEM. Does that let you just choose a PSI and it does the rest? I looked into the AEM Tru-boost and didn't like how people said the boost changes with the weather, and you have to choose the duty cycle rather than just set a boost level.

Cozmo,
I went with a HKS EVC6. You do have a set boost target. You have to supply a "correction factor" to get it close then it will adjust to keep it at the set boost. It will over or under shoot a bit .3 psi or so when the temp changes a lot but after a wot run or two it comes back to the target. I know the Apexi AVC-R and Greddy Profec A both do this also. (I've had both before).

I had the TurboXS manual when I first installed the kit but switched shortly afterwards.
 
Like I said, it is a Precision turbo. Their new style with billet wheels and all oil cooled with no need for water lines as it has a new center section cooling housing that dissipates the heat from cooling fins cast into the housing.
Merry Christmas to all Prime members!

Bob,

Any updates from Mase?
 
I talked to him a couple of days ago and he said they would start working on it this week so I haven't called him back to bug him. I'm still in Chicago and won't be coming down until around the 11th so he has plenty of time (I hope).

Are you in town Bob? Is it done?
 
Are you in town Bob? Is it done?
Here is my story. I was on my way down from Chicago on Sunday and got to my mountain home in north Georgia where I have a couple of motorcycles on a trailer ready to take down to my Florida condo. I got there but was aware of the coming snow. I had to drop off my girlfriend in Atlanta at a hotel where she was running a meeting for Monday. I left the bikes at the house and tried to get to the hotel but missed a turn and ended up on a road that had a hill on both ends of the road. I got down and could go no further. I ended up leaving the car parked along the side along with dozens of others. We dragged our suitcases for 3 miles to the hotel where we are now stuck until at least Sat. when the roads are expected to be clear enough for me to get back to my house up my driveway get the bikes and trailer and head down to Florida. The only bright side to this story is that I expect the car will be done by time I get to Jacksonville. What are the odds of being snow bound in Atlanta? LOL
 
I love a good adventure. It seems every major purchase in my life has a good story like this to remember. That's what makes life more interesting.

Find the best steak joint in town, sit down, order a nice bottle of wine. As you take your first sip, smile and know your Turbo NSX is WORTH THE WAIT!
 
Here is my story. I was on my way down from Chicago on Sunday and got to my mountain home in north Georgia where I have a couple of motorcycles on a trailer ready to take down to my Florida condo. I got there but was aware of the coming snow. I had to drop off my girlfriend in Atlanta at a hotel where she was running a meeting for Monday. I left the bikes at the house and tried to get to the hotel but missed a turn and ended up on a road that had a hill on both ends of the road. I got down and could go no further. I ended up leaving the car parked along the side along with dozens of others. We dragged our suitcases for 3 miles to the hotel where we are now stuck until at least Sat. when the roads are expected to be clear enough for me to get back to my house up my driveway get the bikes and trailer and head down to Florida. The only bright side to this story is that I expect the car will be done by time I get to Jacksonville. What are the odds of being snow bound in Atlanta? LOL

Good lord Bob, sounds like something to laugh about a few years down the road. Glad nothing really happened besides a week of inconvenience.

In the mean time if you want, I’m sure NETVIPER will be more then happy to take your car out for some shake down runs and work out the bugs. Lol. Have you gotten any updates from Mase on it?

Gary
 
Good lord Bob, sounds like something to laugh about a few years down the road. Glad nothing really happened besides a week of inconvenience.

In the mean time if you want, I’m sure NETVIPER will be more then happy to take your car out for some shake down runs and work out the bugs. Lol. Have you gotten any updates from Mase on it?

Gary

:biggrin:
 
Well, the wine and steak would be a good idea at a fine restaurant but they are ALL closed. Luckily we are in one of the top hotels in Atlanta and as a matter of fact I had a nice juicy rib eye steak last night (yum yum). I have not talked to Steve as he didn't expect the turbo coming in till this week so maybe the timing will be perfect for ME to first to take it for a shakedown ride (sorry NetViper). I will call him maybe tomorrow and will update you all then. Until then I'm doing a lot of web surfing. LOL
 
Bob,

Let us know when you are in town and we can all go out to lunch or dinner or something.
 
Bob,

Let us know when you are in town and we can all go out to lunch or dinner or something.
Dave, I spoke with Steve today and there was a little snag in that he was sent a wrong size exhaust coupling but it is coming in today so with a little luck we are looking at next week. I'll let you know when I'm coming in.
 
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