Dave/all: Got new balls from Titanium Dave on my rear beam rears. Two questions: 1- to get 2-1/2 neg on a lowered car, I assume I rotate the balls so the holes are toward the outside? 2- when the tech loosens the nuts to turn the cams, what stops the weight of the car from rotating the balls out of whack? If the balls on both sides are not in exactly the same orietation, the height from right to left will be different. Any tips will be appreciated, I'm hearing the tech right now, " you've got mono-WHAT? in there?" TIA and nice work Dave!
Mono-ball alighnment technique
- Thread starter Tanto2
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#1 Yes, the holes are set further outboard for more negative camber.
#2 The wieght is on the tires, not the "A" arm
I hope your tech is not actually asking #1, because if he is, you may wish to go elsewere.
Regards,
LarryB
#2 The wieght is on the tires, not the "A" arm
I hope your tech is not actually asking #1, because if he is, you may wish to go elsewere
.Regards,
LarryB
#1 Yes, the holes are set further outboard for more negative camber.
#2 The wieght is on the tires, not the "A" arm
I hope your tech is not actually asking #1, because if he is, you may wish to go elsewere
Regards,
LarryB
As a former pro mechanic, mechanical engineer and machine designer, I'm simply asking the relevant questions to ensure it's done right. There aren't many alighnment technicians (if any) with your desire to deal with aftermarket products Larry. There are considerable forces on the A arm, even in a static condition, certainly enough to rotate the ball if one is not watching, especially if one trys to rotate a cam without raising the wheel. Are you saying you just set the balls to the outside and have not seen any ball rotation when you rotate the cams (assuming you raise the wheel of course)? I assume thats probably the case, but I want to make sure that special precautions are not warranted. It seems that the balls should have some witness marks so you can see where they are to ensure consistant ride height from left to right. You disagree? I do not have coil-overs which would negate the issue. Thanks.
The mono balls are inserted (pressed) into the beam similar to the stock setup, the adjustment is using the stock camber bolt to adjust them. After disassembling many of these and having them on the alignment rack, I have never seen an issue with the camber bolts slipping out of position, due to the weight of the car. My comment is based on a car on the alignment rack resting on the tires, not raised. The camber bolt should be snug, so there is no movement as you align it.
The NSX is one of the easiest cars to align. Everything is done with eccentric adjusters, and it is easy to set and have them hold position as you dial it in.
I do not understand your comment about ride height. There is no height change related to the camber position, at least that is of any consequence, from my experience.
HTH,
LarryB
The NSX is one of the easiest cars to align. Everything is done with eccentric adjusters, and it is easy to set and have them hold position as you dial it in.
I do not understand your comment about ride height. There is no height change related to the camber position, at least that is of any consequence, from my experience.
HTH,
LarryB
Dave? are you out there? If I understood your PM some time ago, it was my understanding that these units will rotate until you tighten them down. You could technically rotate them toward the inside and get 3 degrees of positive camber, wouldn't that be fun! Larry obviously believes they do not rotate, hence his "no ride height" comment. Can you set us straight Dave? Larry, the NSX trained master tech here worked my car for three hours last time and still didn't get it right. And this tech was so good Honda R&D hired him, although I think he may have been struggling with an overcomplex alighment rack. So thats why I was anticipating the worst. Glad to here they are easy, but I'll have to go a non-nsx tech this time. Thanks all!
I actually spoke to Dave before I posted my last comment. I wanted to be sure I had not missed something from my previous discussions with Dave about this.
Regards,
LarryB
. I wanted to be sure I had not missed something from my previous discussions with Dave about this. Regards,
LarryB
I actually spoke to Dave before I posted my last comment
Regards,
LarryB
Thanks Larry, I'll have to PM Dave again, I thought others would be interested in the issue so I just came here. Your note infers the assembly does NOT rotate (in the direction that would radically affect camber). Daves PM to me some time ago inferred the assembly WILL rotate until you tighten down the nut. I just want confirmation one way or the other.
#1 Yes, the holes are set further outboard for more negative camber.
#2 The wieght is on the tires, not the "A" arm
I hope your tech is not actually asking #1, because if he is, you may wish to go elsewere
Regards,
LarryB
Larry is correct on both points.
I have had not problems with the reducers rotating. There is quite a bit of friction between the faces of the lower arm and the reducers, the tech should only loosen the nut enough to allow the cam to rotate, so the reducer should not rotate in the ball to change position from where it was set.
Larry is also correct these have no effect on the ride height.
I'm following you Dave. My point is the tech needs to understand that he has to be carefull when assembling the a-arm bolt to not rotate the reducers before the bolt is tightened. When I tried mine they rotate easily. If they do rotate the tech will just compensate with the cam, but the elevation of that a-arm point will be higher or lower depending on which way it slipped. It will not affect ride height (my mistake), and in reality it probably makes little difference, but technically that pivot point moving up or down will slightly affect the geometry, and I don't like that personally. The thing to do is to put witness marks on the reducers and the beam and tell the tech to make sure they stay lined up, or at least at the same clock position. Dave. one of the reducer offset holes is machined right thru the side of the reducer. I assume you designed the reducers to bear on the sides of the bearing inner race, so that also is probably not a problem. I'll post a picture tomorrow. To all potential buyers, this is a terrific design, it's my day job nature to analyze for potential problems, especially when anyone else is going to touch my ride. Thanks all.
After reading this I'm simply glad I have 2 balls. :smile:
All the load is carried across the faces of the reducers. The part you have will work perfectly, the hole is only there to align the 2 reducers when the cam bolts are loose and the alignment is being changed. When the tech is working on the adjustment, the nut that holds the cam bolt in adjustment should only be loosened enough to allow the cam to rotate. This will make it so the reducers can not rotate in the mono-ball inner race.
Dave
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