MOBIL 1 oil is JUNK

[RON98]

Mobil cheapened their oil... so the rumour goes. they went from a Class 4 and down graded to a Class 3 as the base for their oil.

The class 3's are NOT full synthetic and are in the class of Dino oil.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=754227&an=0&page=5#Post754227

"SuperSYN in M1EP (mobil 1 extended performance) = super profit"

"Mobeel 1 has had a pretty good rep as a number one quality oil but now their new concept is as follows.
"

"Reply from Mobil 1 concerning basestocks "

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=752599&an=0&page=6#Post752599

SUMMERY

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=759485&an=0&page=1#Post759485

was up till 5am reading this stuff last night. Makes me mad that they would be so ambiguous about their product. SHADY SHADY SHADY!

M1 can kiss my business good buy. Im not using that stuff anymore. een using their stuff for years now .Thought you guys should know that we are paying FULL SYNTHETIC PRICE for a NON SYNTHETIC PRODUCT.

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

Mobil cheapened their oil... so the rumour goes. they went from a Class 4 and down graded to a Class 3 as the base for their oil.

The class 3's are NOT full synthetic and are in the class of Dino oil.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=754227&an=0&page=5#Post754227

"SuperSYN in M1EP (mobil 1 extended performance) = super profit"

"Mobeel 1 has had a pretty good rep as a number one quality oil but now their new concept is as follows.
"

"Reply from Mobil 1 concerning basestocks "

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=752599&an=0&page=6#Post752599

SUMMERY

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=759485&an=0&page=1#Post759485

was up till 5am reading this stuff last night. Makes me mad that they would be so ambiguous about their product. SHADY SHADY SHADY!

M1 can kiss my business good buy. Im not using that stuff anymore. een using their stuff for years now .Thought you guys should know that we are paying FULL SYNTHETIC PRICE for a NON SYNTHETIC PRODUCT.

I've read countless threads on oil forums over time, mostly on the popular site you linked to http://www.bobistheoilguy.com

For awhile there was similar controversy over the EP blend.

My own conclusion is that many of these enthusiasts have way too much time on their hands.. sending oil out for analysis, badgering the vendors about their additives, and trying to make speculative arguments one way or the other among the various top tier brands (redline, amsoil, mobil1, castrol, etc...).

The fact is none of them have the resources to bring to bear accurate test data, most aren't chemical engineers, and manufactuers being in such a competitive space have every right to leave some aspects of their formulations undisclosed for good reason. Employing teams of specialized staff in labs running engines and taking samples near endlessly, R&D of their intellectual property is really everything- manufacturing or source stock costs pennies per quart in comparison.

I've used Mobil 1 and redline products over the years, and at $22 for 5 quarts of 10W30 at Wallmart... I can afford to change the Mobil1 out every 750-1000miles and before/after each event at the minimum. Alot of talk goes into classes, additives, extended performance, and quality differences by such enthusiasts, but you know.... nothing beats fresh uncontaminated fluid when you pull your dip stick...

 

[RON98]

22$ / gallon... wow im paying like 25 at walmart.

The M1 where good before as they were group 4. now its a different producting being group 3 and in the same class as... well castor GTX and other "inferior" synthetic products.

Mobil 1 where making a big fuss and law suits against castrol on how their "synthetic" oil was group 3 and mobil's was group 4. Now Mobil is going group 3 and is being a total hypocrite about their statement that group 4 and 5 are the only true synthetic product and group 3 are just glorified mineral oil.

Amsoil is Group 4 and 5 stock and is true synthetic and acturally I looked them up for the first time and 1 gallon of their stuff is only 28$.

synthetic is synthetic, i paid for it and dont want to be misleadl. If i wanted 9$ a gallon, i would have paid for $9 a gallon.:smile:

there was a pretty cool test acturally and i cant seem to find the article.

also they wont even answer a simple question as if EXXON MOBIL uses G3 as a base stock..... its like asking KFC if they use salt to flavor their chicken...

we are not asking for the composition of their oil just if they use g3 as base stock. They hide behind the "composition of oil" jargin to avoid the hard questions.

Also i was wondering why my supra was spitting out blue smoke :tongue: arnt full synthetic's burn a little whiteish? :biggrin:

I got 2 more gallons left at home of M1. Once thats done. im done with the company.

if you get the 55 gallon barral of the Amsoil its cheaper than the M1 oil at walmart.

hell of a bargan. If we get a few guys locally that will want a few gallons here and there, it would be a pretty good buy.:smile:

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

22$ / gallon... wow im paying like 25 at walmart.

The M1 where good before as they were group 4. now its a different producting being group 3 and in the same class as... well castor GTX and other "inferior" synthetic products.

Mobil 1 where making a big fuss and law suits against castrol on how their "synthetic" oil was group 3 and mobil's was group 4. Now Mobil is going group 3 and is being a total hypocrite about their statement that group 4 and 5 are the only true synthetic product and group 3 are just glorified mineral oil.

Amsoil is Group 4 and 5 stock and is true synthetic and acturally I looked them up for the first time and 1 gallon of their stuff is only 28$.

synthetic is synthetic, i paid for it and dont want to be misleadl. If i wanted 9$ a gallon, i would have paid for $9 a gallon.:smile:

there was a pretty cool test acturally and i cant seem to find the article.

also they wont even answer a simple question as if EXXON MOBIL uses G3 as a base stock..... its like asking KFC if they use salt to flavor their chicken...

we are not asking for the composition of their oil just if they use g3 as base stock. They hide behind the "composition of oil" jargin to avoid the hard questions.

Also i was wondering why my supra was spitting out blue smoke :tongue: arnt full synthetic's burn a little whiteish? :biggrin:

I got 2 more gallons left at home of M1. Once thats done. im done with the company.

I understand the threads, it just seems too far out of practical scope to dwell on to me.... As I understood it the various 'base stocks' are open to some level of subjectivity in their official classifications to begin with, but most pressing is that advances in modern manufacturing processes, proprietary between vendors, can near make the base stock all but irrelevant among manufacturers by the time its all said and done in the container at the store shelf. In essence, even if you were disclosed that information it likely tells little if the intent is to make relative comparisons between vendors products at the higher end sythentic level.

If its a concern, try redline or amsoil (seems popular with the S2K guys). Few on the oil forums have many negative things to say about it... I just don't use it for my own daily drivers as locally to me its near double the cost, and I can swap the Mobil1 twice for the cost per case of redline.

I'm one of the more open minded types, so I'd be open to anyway to get my oil cheaper than my current method but past attempts at pricing it online with shipping usually results in a wash per case.

 

[RON98]

ya i read redline was not very hot either......:frown:

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

ya i read redline was not very hot either......:frown:

Good enough for many race teams that have engines that cost a lot more than mine. :wink:

 

[jgtcnsx]

agip:biggrin:

 

[KooLaid]

Good enough for many race teams that have engines that cost a lot more than mine. :wink:

That was a similar argument in the sportbike world. Problem was, these expensive high hype oils that product XX hp were only good for a short time that they were on the track. Then it was break down the motor, rebuild and refill oil.

So I see it as, good enough for them, but they only run them a few miles or few hundred miles at a time before flush and refill or rebuild.

I'm a firm believer in father hond knows best. With the nsx which I don't track or daily drive, I'm not crazy enough to go 7500 miles but upto 5000 miles with a 2500 mile buffer if for some stupid reason I can't change it before.

Does anyone know anything about "Lucas Synthetic High Performance Motor Oil"? I used their fuel treatment and loved what it did for my daily beater truck. For some reason I have more faith in them than redline, amsoil, or royal purple.

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

That was a similar argument in the sportbike world. Problem was, these expensive high hype oils that product XX hp were only good for a short time that they were on the track. Then it was break down the motor, rebuild and refill oil.

So I see it as, good enough for them, but they only run them a few miles or few hundred miles at a time before flush and refill or rebuild.

There are many offerings to choose from, even among the same vendor with their various targeted product lines... so it is relevant to shy away from generalizations like "redline this or that" and look at specific products perhaps is my best guess albeit for sport bikes or production cars.

For vehicles, Redline has two lines, their standard motor oil synthetic and their sythentic racing oils which might be more similar to the reference you eluded to with sport bikes.

Traditionally, most of the reputable vendors like Redline and Royal Purple only made claims of "increased hp" as it relates to their more pricey lower viscosity racing oils.

But these days, from all of the TV and print ads, their just doesn't seem to be any bounds anymore to consumer advertising, from references to "engine cleaning" to "increased hp and torque" so I think it is easy to get wound up no different than gas branding for most consumers.

I'm a firm believer in father hond knows best. With the nsx which I don't track or daily drive, I'm not crazy enough to go 7500 miles but upto 5000 miles with a 2500 mile buffer if for some stupid reason I can't change it before.

When deciding on motor oil and a maintenaince schedule, I would think that it is best to start with a level head, and opt for a product, viscosity, and schedule that makes sense for the target application, usage, and customer goals. Without having the criteria defined up-front, different enthusiasts would never see eye to eye because they have different intents/applications all together. I would expect someone racing in the salt flats to have a more rigorous schedule than elsewhere for example, or a show car to be different than a track car.

95% of the time, it is likely daily commuter on an extended change interval, and even non-synthetic on a regular basis will do the job which is something I'm sure Father Honda knows better than anyone which is why the service manuals read as they do.

However, I think that when you get to the level as a few on enthusiast and performance centric forums do... with higher end production racers whereas their modified engines and drivetrains now represent significant fiscal investments... a stricter maintenance schedule is a given, and the cheapest insurance available for their essential mechanical components is good lube at more regular intervals. If not even by neccessity, to eliminate variables in the event of failure.

Their was a special on cable awhile back about how the Military maintains and analyzes engine oil in their apache's helicopters... I would think if you really want to get down to the gritty details of lubrication.. tech aviation/aerospace would be a better place to start, since when they get it wrong in the harsh conditions of Iraq they fall out of the sky.

 

[KooLaid]

Their was a special on cable awhile back about how the Military maintains and analyzes engine oil in their apache's helicopters... I would think if you really want to get down to the gritty details of lubrication.. tech aviation/aerospace would be a better place to start, since when they get it wrong in the harsh conditions of Iraq they fall out of the sky.

Something tells me they probably DON'T or No longer use Mobil 1, lol.

 

[RON98]

m1 was a great product. Dont get me wrong. The issue is now they changed over to an inferior dino oil base and are still peddling their product as if it was their previous full synthetic base. Thats the problem. Im not disputing their past effectiveness. Its the change that has people pissed off.

First they say Group 3 is crap. we only use group 4. blah blah blah. and now they turn around and sell us the crap they where all high and mightly about, at a higher price i might add. Mobil 1 extended performance? 28$ a gallon.... for what? Dino oil. old fashioned dino oil.

its crap.

I doubt that race cars use use the new M1 oil.

For normal people, the dino or fake synthetic is just fine. but for people who really drive their cars using the whole RPM range and also for turboed cars. We are paying for that extra margin of protection.

We are not getting it with an inferior product.

Also the fact that we are getting decived is enough for me to look else where.

As if Exxon mobils and other oil companie's record profit earnings in the kazillion figures is not already good enought, they gota lie to us and sell us an inferior product just to boost profit margins

anyways, this information is spreading like wild fire on the internet. people are already looking else where. just thought fellow nsx owners should get a heads up and hey, if you still want to run M1, thats your choice. If you want to run the old m1 full synthetic, start looking for an alternative product that will offer you protection dino oil cant.

 

[jond]

I skimmed through those posts, and I didn't see any facts. Did I miss them?
Who discovered M1 is Base3, and who confirmed it?

 

[Scin]

I read that thread on that forum a few weeks ago. From what I can tell, one person has tested one quart of oil. I'm not saying his tests are incorrect, it will just be interesting to see additional tests.

 

[whatisreal7]

When this is all done with, just let me know what the next brand of synthetic oil I should use....yeah i'm lazy.:biggrin:

 

[KooLaid]

You mention the Mobil EP oils are group 3. What about the Mobil NON EP oils? I know those are still being sold so I'm curious to what group this falls under.

 

[Edgemts]

Good enough for many race teams that have engines that cost a lot more than mine. :wink:

Race teams that are sponsored by redline or that actually use redline oils in their Race engines?
In the late 90's I was sponsored by redline, for product and other considerations. Had been using mobil1 for years, after the season opener in daytona, Daytona 200, I took motor apart and it was a mess. Went To Road Atlanta with a new motor and spun a rod bearing, put me on my head at 100+, (espn got it all). In 2+ years of using mobil 1 we had NO motor problems, and they always came apart clean and looked great.
I do not know if redline has dramatically changed there product, but I will say I will never use there motor oil in anything I own or race.
Some of there other products are good and I still use, Water wetter etc.
By the way it was in my contract that whether I used the products or not: " I use Redline products in all my motors etc"
There are many teams that are sponsored by one product but actually use, and pay for, another.

 

[Vega$ NSX]

When this is all done with, just let me know what the next brand of synthetic oil I should use....yeah i'm lazy.:biggrin:

I'm with you, and I'm even an engineer (I'm supposed to like the techie details). After about the fourth post my eyes glazed over and my brain started thinking about what beer I'd like to kill it with tonight. :biggrin:

 

[scorp965]

When this is all done with, just let me know what the next brand of synthetic oil I should use....yeah i'm lazy.:biggrin:

amsoil 10W30.

 

[RON98]

im turbing towards amsoil too.

i'll probably just get a 55 gallon drum and divy it out to few nsx lowers around valencia.

at 55 gallons, each gallon is cheaper than the m1 stuff off store shelves....

M5000 and M7500 should be group 3 also

 

[jond]

Good enough for many race teams that have engines that cost a lot more than mine. :wink:

The flaw in that logic is race teams rebuild their engines after every race, or at least every season.
You want your oil to make your engine last 300,000 miles. They want their oil to make their engine last 300 miles. BIG difference...

Also, the way it usually works is a sponsor picks you, not the other way around. You don't say, 'hey I like redline, lets put their sticker on'. Instead its, 'redline is paying for our engines, so we have to use their oil.'

 

[Edgemts]

The flaw in that logic is race teams rebuild their engines after every race, or at least every season.
You want your oil to make your engine last 300,000 miles. They want their oil to make their engine last 300 miles. BIG difference...

Also, the way it usually works is a sponsor picks you, not the other way around. You don't say, 'hey I like redline, lets put their sticker on'. Instead its, 'redline is paying for our engines, so we have to use their oil.'

Its not that BIG of a difference, the loads etc are different, and the fact that we change oil at least once per event, but your getting into engine design, not oil life/ or quality.

Unless your MS, Jordan, or a select few top names, sponsors don't find you, you work very hard to get sponsors, and unless you are testing there product, they don't care if you are using it or not as long as it appears that you are to the public. What matters is appearance + results= publicity.
I know many teams, mechanics etc that empty sponsor product bottles then put in the product they use, so at the track when they need to add oil or?? they are putting in what they want not necessarily the "sponsors" product.

Whets important, is if the sponsor makes a quality product for the consumer, and its been tested for consumers application etc you see there name, associate it with winning or good appearance, and then hopefully you spend your money on it.

Back on subject- if indeed Mobil 1 has changed then its something to look into, but I wouldn't go off of a small amount of information until its backed up with infallible facts.

 

[RON98]

lol i second thjat. just cause some one is paying the bills does not mean you are using their product. if you think F1 engines use the same Mobil 1 we got... there is something else coming to ya. Maybe they pour it from the same "looking" bottles as i have heard from some people, who knows what kind of oil is in there:biggrin: until i personally buy a jug from walmart and see them put it in the engine, i'll be skeptical that its anywhere close to the same product.

you think M1 is going 2 come out and say, oh we changed our base oil to group 3. the group we have said is crap for the last 20 years.:wink: i dont think so.

 

[Edgemts]

lol i second thjat. just cause some one is paying the bills does not mean you are using their product. if you think F1 engines use the same Mobil 1 we got... there is something else coming to ya. Maybe they pour it from the same "looking" bottles as i have heard from some people, who knows what kind of oil is in there:biggrin: until i personally buy a jug from walmart and see them put it in the engine, i'll be skeptical that its anywhere close to the same product.

you think M1 is going 2 come out and say, oh we changed our base oil to group 3. the group we have said is crap for the last 20 years.:wink: i dont think so.

I think one of the things that will change , if indeed the mobil 1 has changed is that you will see some of the OEM's change from Mobil 1, not that it means a lot as you dont know what oem's use mobil one for its cost, but some have a much larger interest in keeping warranty claims etc to a minimum on there HP oe engines.

 

[94BlkNSXinNC]

I'm with you, and I'm even an engineer (I'm supposed to like the techie details). After about the fourth post my eyes glazed over and my brain started thinking about what beer I'd like to kill it with tonight. :biggrin:

Same here guys. Vega$, maybe you would consider Guinness, Harp, Smithwicks, or Red Stripe? I am a brewery rep for these brands.:biggrin: The support would be greatly appreciated.:wink: Sorry, I know that was a cheap plug! Either way, I will be reading the updates on this thread.

Chuck

 

[WaltL]

You know, I think this whole syn. oil thing is really overrated. If you love your car, or your bike, and care about your engine, you're going to change your oil regularly. If you use syn. oil, you're probably STILL gonna change it more frequently than what is recommended.

I started using Castrol years ago since my bike racing buddies used it. I used it in my Volvos (Ok, I've been outed) and I just sold my '97 960 today with 195K mi. I've got a high mileage '86 FJ1200 Yamaha I've owned since 1990. I ride it pretty hard on the street, but I also put fresh Castrol 20W/50 about every 2K mi... and, so far, no problems.

I think it's probably more frequent oil and filter changes than the particular oil that matters. OK, I wouldn't use Coastal from the Golden Panty, but you know what I mean.

Finally, I've been talking to an Acura MT about a heater issue and we got to talking about oil, and I asked him what to use in my NSX (this guy used to build F-motors for racing and has owned a couple of NSX's). I told him I'd read that a lot of guys on Prime use Mobil 1 syn. oil, and he goes off on Mobil and says he won't use it because he's pissed at them for selling a product and claiming it was something it wasn't... full synthetic. I think this was awhile ago.

Anyway, he also said that Honda oil is manufactured by Mobil. The oil Honda recommended for these cars is not syn. oil, and he advised me to just use a good quality oil and change it every 3K mi. He claims he's seen plenty of NSX's with high miles that saw regular oil changes with no syn oil.

So, based on my non-racing, real world driving experience, I guess I'll go with the Castrol 10W/30 in the NSX. It's been good to me so far!