Message to HONDA: Give All Current NSX Owners a Loyalty Discount.

[liftcontrol]

It is time for HONDA to show some love for their loyal NSX customers who have through thick and thin held up the torch and never lost faith.

HONDA has done this before for their customers of various other/lesser Hondas.

HONDA do not expect to sell many of the NSX replacement cars and would do wonders for their true and loyal customer base if they declare a small but meaningful discount for the current NSX owners who step up to buy the NSX replacement new.

Considering that this number of new NSX replacement buyers will be very limited, this will be no financial burden for HONDA but a great PR move.

Please second this proposition and we can forward it to HONDA of America.

 

[SoCalDude]

I move to second.:wink:

 

[nastinupe1]

Maybe Honda should follow Ferrari's foot steps and give people who already own one first dibs. No discount, but if a current NSX owner wants the new one, he will be put on front of the GT-R owner who just wants the next big thing.

There is no waiting list, but just a priority list, like waiting for a first class upgrade. You don't know exactly how the system works, but once your number is pulled, you get one.

 

[PhiAlpha44]

That's if most NSX owners would even want one it it's current state. I'm thinking probably not. What does THAT say to Honda? No thanks, you can keep your 2009 version. I'll stick with the 20 year old design.

 

[liftcontrol]

That's if most NSX owners would even want one it it's current state. I'm thinking probably not. What does THAT say to Honda? No thanks, you can keep your 2009 version. I'll stick with the 20 year old design.

This car is not a new NSX.
This is a totally new car from HONDA. As such it does not pretend to follow in the footsteps of the great NSX. Rather it caters to a different buyer with a different package of engine, power, handling, luxury and price point.

I will keep my NSX too. That does not make this new Super car from HONDA any less desirable.

 

[theman1990]

Maybe just offer it with the promise of NO DEALER MARKUP!

 

[nastinupe1]

This car is not a new NSX.
This is a totally new car from HONDA. As such it does not pretend to follow in the footsteps of the great NSX. Rather it caters to a different buyer with a different package of engine, power, handling, luxury and price point.

I will keep my NSX too. That does not make this new Super car from HONDA any less desirable.

Yep, I have to agree with you on that one. This new car is nothinig like that NSX. Totally different car. It doesn't matter what they call it, it doesn't have the same soul as the NSX.

So here's the question, with so many great cars being made with the engine in front, from an engineering stand point, what is there to gain?

Was the mid engine, rear axle car simply a fad of the 80's and 90's? Is there an advantage to either or can you do just as well with either platform?

I have heard arguements for both. I don't really know because I'm no engineer. But there has to be a reason why Honda, Toyota, and Nissan decided not to go in that direction this time around.

 

[NSXrunner]

That's if most NSX owners would even want one it it's current state. I'm thinking probably not. What does THAT say to Honda? No thanks, you can keep your 2009 version. I'll stick with the 20 year old design.

+1

Design the car we like first, then we will talk. You can give out all the discounts if you want, but if the car is fugly, I'll still pass on buying it regardless of how much power it has or how it handles.

 

[drtruong]

+1

Design the car we like first, then we will talk. You can give out all the discounts if you want, but if the car is fugly, I'll still pass on buying it regardless of how much power it has or how it handles.

How about this- they will design the car you want, but will charge you full price.

 

[liftcontrol]

+1

Design the car we like first, then we will talk. You can give out all the discounts if you want, but if the car is fugly, I'll still pass on buying it regardless of how much power it has or how it handles.

Guess what. HONDA will definitely not put a gun to your head and force you to buy this car.

Furthermore, pitifully few people bought the NSX. That is despite it being mid engine [the only thing that matters for some it seems] and definitely a good looker.

Performance matters. It will bring buyers. The GT-R is an example. And the NSX replacement even in its current preproduction guise is already looking way better than the GT-R.:smile:

 

[NSXrunner]

How about this- they will design the car you want, but will charge you full price.

If I really want it. I will scrap, work, beg, borrow, steal, and pay the full price. But it better be one hell of a looker and performer of a car. :biggrin:

 

[TC]

So here's the question, with so many great cars being made with the engine in front, from an engineering stand point, what is there to gain?

Was the mid engine, rear axle car simply a fad of the 80's and 90's? Is there an advantage to either or can you do just as well with either platform?

I don't think any one layout is superior to another in terms of performance; Corvette, Mercedes, McLaren, Ferrari, Aston and others have all made front-engined cars go really fast. Similarly, Ferrari, Honda, Audi, Lambo, Lotus, Porsche and others have made really fast mid-engined cars. And Porsche has defied physics to make rear-engined cars go really fast.

The primary differences have to do to utility and appearance. Most mid-engined cars don't have a much/any space behind the seats, let alone anything that resembles a trunk. While some mid-engined cars have some storage under the hood, it isn't much as there are still mechanicals up front for steering, cooling, etc. Front-engined cars have decent storage, which means you can actually use your car to travel.

To me, the biggest difference is appearance and personal design taste. Look at the differences between the SLR and Murcielago, cab-back versus cab-forward. Look at where the A-Pillar meets the body. In the Lambo, it literally is above the wheel arch. In the SLR, it is like 3 feet further back.

My preference is cab-forward. Some love it the other way around. For me, a super-powerful, super-fast NSX-2 (or whatever it will be called) that is a cab-back design isn't too exciting.

 

[liftcontrol]

I don't think any one layout is superior to another in terms of performance; Corvette, Mercedes, McLaren, Ferrari, Aston and others have all made front-engined cars go really fast. Similarly, Ferrari, Honda, Audi, Lambo, Lotus, Porsche and others have made really fast mid-engined cars. And Porsche has defied physics to make rear-engined cars go really fast.

The primary differences have to do to utility and appearance. Most mid-engined cars don't have a much/any space behind the seats, let alone anything that resembles a trunk. While some mid-engined cars have some storage under the hood, it isn't much as there are still mechanicals up front for steering, cooling, etc. Front-engined cars have decent storage, which means you can actually use your car to travel.

To me, the biggest difference is appearance and personal design taste. Look at the differences between the SLR and Murcielago, cab-back versus cab-forward. Look at where the A-Pillar meets the body. In the Lambo, it literally is above the wheel arch. In the SLR, it is like 3 feet further back.

My preference is cab-forward. Some love it the other way around. For me, a super-powerful, super-fast NSX-2 (or whatever it will be called) that is a cab-back design isn't too exciting.

______________________________________________________________
TC, you make some good points. However I must say that you chose a rather extreme example of a cab-back in the SLR which is I must say particularly ungainly in its proportions.

Rather, take a look at the Ferrari California as an elegant example of a front mid-engine beauty. Numerous other examples of handsome front engine configurtion can be found.

The British are particularly adept at making the front engine designs look very elegant.
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v137/time2time/?action=view&current=big_Ferrari_California_06.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v137/time2time/big_Ferrari_California_06.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v137/time2time/?action=view&current=112_0707_03z2008_aston_martin_DBSsi.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v137/time2time/112_0707_03z2008_aston_martin_DBSsi.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v137/time2time/?action=view&current=2007_aston_martin_dbs_04_m.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v137/time2time/2007_aston_martin_dbs_04_m.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v137/time2time/?action=view&current=honda-nsx-001.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v137/time2time/honda-nsx-001.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Too many people want to write this HONDA off even before the true shape and dimensions are known. What is known is all good. A normally aspirated 600 +/- hp, V10, mid front design with SH-AWD and performance like no other HONDA before. People, this is a driver's car. The kind of car drivers like you and I love.

 

[BD]

Kind of a pointless offer since majority of the NSX owner now are now original owners. Even if they knock 10 grand off the car, the car it self will be discounted heavily after one year with back end rebate and attractive financing rate.

 

[TC]

______________________________________________________________
TC, you make some good points. However I must say that you chose a rather extreme example of a cab-back in the SLR which is I must say particularly ungainly in its proportions.

Rather, take a look at the Ferrari California as an elegant example of a front mid-engine beauty. Numerous other examples of handsome front engine configurtion can be found.

Too many people want to write this HONDA off even before the true shape and dimensions are known. What is known is all good. A normally aspirated 600 +/- hp, V10, mid front design with SH-AWD and performance like no other HONDA before. People, this is a driver's car. The kind of car drivers like you and I love.

I picked the SLR at random but the Viper has a similar profile; the Vette isn't as quite cab-back but it is also similar. As for ungainly, that is all in the eye of the beholder - obviously many people find that design appealing. All of the cars that you provided pics for are very nice but again, look at the distance between the front wheel arch and the A-pillar (and the door cut that is usually directly below the A-Pillar). In all front-engined cars, there is a pretty large distance between the two, whereas cab forward cars those two design elements intersect. Again, it is all a matter of personal taste and preference - I would never suggest one is better than the other. I have my personal preferences.

The new NSX may turn out to be a lovely design - even for those who prefer a pure cab-forward design. I was simply noting my thoughts on why many of the new exotics (such as the Ferrari California) and high-performance cars (GTR, ZR1, etc) seem to be tending to a front-engine design. I don't think it is a performance issue, rather usable space and design appeal. I believe that those design considerations (especially usable space) is what led Honda to make the new NSX a front-engine layout.

The good news is, there is a car on the market (or coming to the market) for just about whatever your tastes may be - cab forward, cab back, cab center, V6, V8, V10, V12, V6-turbo, GT, sports car, fast, super fast, exotic, coupe, sedan, sleeper, etc.

 

[JetBlackS2000]

______________________________________________________________
TC, you make some good points. However I must say that you chose a rather extreme example of a cab-back in the SLR which is I must say particularly ungainly in its proportions.

Rather, take a look at the Ferrari California as an elegant example of a front mid-engine beauty. Numerous other examples of handsome front engine configurtion can be found.

The British are particularly adept at making the front engine designs look very elegant.








Too many people want to write this HONDA off even before the true shape and dimensions are known. What is known is all good. A normally aspirated 600 +/- hp, V10, mid front design with SH-AWD and performance like no other HONDA before. People, this is a driver's car. The kind of car drivers like you and I love.

I agree that this will be a drivers car as seen in the videos if the price point is low.
It's definitely not elegant or exotic. Acura's pointy front nose and rear, as well as the Corvette look, blow it for me. Honda could have incorporated the handling, power and appeal. The cost to design this car would have been about the same as designing something special. Pricing will be the key to this cars success.

Another example of Honda's design flaw was the creation of the S2000 CR. It looks like crap, but it's supposed to go faster. If I took out parts like the AC and soft top from my S2000 it would go faster too. Nicer functional add-ons are easily available by third party manufacturers. It's a pattern, Honda's design team sucks. Honda could have been so much more. Instead it will always remain stereo typed. Just look at Acura's concept vehicles...unreal..., especially in this age of amazing graphic/design artists.

 

[WingZ]

I agree and second the motion but those that bought new should get preference and a discount ..LOL:biggrin:

As for the comment above mine .. just another BASE S2K hater ..LOL J/K I do love the looks of the CR over the base model though.

I think those who keep wondering what will make this Honda better or different from the other front engine supercars forget what Honda does that makes their cars stand out will be better fuel economy ( yes for those of us who care and supposedly it will get better than the NSX which is crazy ) reliability , DD user friendliness. These are the things that changed the exotic car world and Honda will now do the same in the supercar world.

 

[MAJOR STONER]

Honda wants us to believe that they can do a better Halo car than Toyota for 20% less, that should be a feat in itself. Especially, with the economic changes that have taken place here, and new market China not growing at 10%, anymore.

Worse, yet, is that the PTB seem to be on the same timetable as the WTC Freedom Tower builders, not before 2011, preferably near 12/21/2012. With everyone citing the 2020 cafe standards of 35 mpg minimum as the death of the supercar, as we know it, Honda can still squeeze out one product design refresh cycle after four years.

911 buyers didn't cross-shop the 928, sometimes less is more. Too bad modern manufacturing methods didn't bring the cost of a NSX type car down. If they can figure out how to make a $35 xBox controller for $15, they should have set up shop in China to stamp out CF chassis/bodies, BUT THEY DIDN'T. NOBODY DID!

Honda couldn't move a premium car at $80K, so now they will produce a premium car for twice that? Will they make a cheaper V-8 version? How will they price that against a V10 RL or Ridgeline? $10K for an OEM Honda seat, anyone?

Honda should be loyal to loyal customers, instead of trying to get Austin Martin-type buyers into the fold.

I know that Honda is frustrated by the NSX's lack of front end grip, but that it still races is a testament to the overall design. The boy-ricer-racer may not the the image that Acura wants, but it is one that has been cultivated by Honda. Honda owns the right lane 45 mph economy-box crowd, and should have a halo-performance car for those who would step-up. But those that wish to own the left lane, do not want to be associated with the right lane crowd. Rebadging Hondas as Acuras won't help this.

I hope this thing never sees production. Hopefully it just a marketing exercise, like I believe the NSX-R GT to be. They couldn't sell 250 NSXs a year, but expect 1000 of the new car to be sold at twice the price? I guess it is all about the engine, that which makes a car desireable. That, and lap-times. Personally, I prefer the "character" and shape that mounting the engine behind the driver brings. I had a 911SC and a 928S at the same time, my dad wound up driving the 928.

We had to wait too long for the raw stretched S2000 test mule. Then Honda tried to pawn off a clay model as a running protoype, trying to hide the unfinished interior at the show. Before we knew it, there was a camo'ed production ready prototype turning out a record setting pace, but we are still years from release.

 

[WingZ]

Honda wants us to believe that they can do a better Halo car than Toyota for 20% less, that should be a feat in itself. Especially, with the economic changes that have taken place here, and new market China not growing at 10%, anymore.

Worse, yet, is that the PTB seem to be on the same timetable as the WTC Freedom Tower builders, not before 2011, preferably near 12/21/2012. With everyone citing the 2020 cafe standards of 35 mpg minimum as the death of the supercar, as we know it, Honda can still squeeze out one product design refresh cycle after four years.

911 buyers didn't cross-shop the 928, sometimes less is more. Too bad modern manufacturing methods didn't bring the cost of a NSX type car down. If they can figure out how to make a $35 xBox controller for $15, they should have set up shop in China to stamp out CF chassis/bodies, BUT THEY DIDN'T. NOBODY DID!

Honda couldn't move a premium car at $80K, so now they will produce a premium car for twice that? Will they make a cheaper V-8 version? How will they price that against a V10 RL or Ridgeline? $10K for an OEM Honda seat, anyone?

Honda should be loyal to loyal customers, instead of trying to get Austin Martin-type buyers into the fold.

I know that Honda is frustrated by the NSX's lack of front end grip, but that it still races is a testament to the overall design. The boy-ricer-racer may not the the image that Acura wants, but it is one that has been cultivated by Honda. Honda owns the right lane 45 mph economy-box crowd, and should have a halo-performance car for those who would step-up. But those that wish to own the left lane, do not want to be associated with the right lane crowd. Rebadging Hondas as Acuras won't help this.

I hope this thing never sees production. Hopefully it just a marketing exercise, like I believe the NSX-R GT to be. They couldn't sell 250 NSXs a year, but expect 1000 of the new car to be sold at twice the price? I guess it is all about the engine, that which makes a car desireable. That, and lap-times. Personally, I prefer the "character" and shape that mounting the engine behind the driver brings. I had a 911SC and a 928S at the same time, my dad wound up driving the 928.

We had to wait too long for the raw stretched S2000 test mule. Then Honda tried to pawn off a clay model as a running protoype, trying to hide the unfinished interior at the show. Before we knew it, there was a camo'ed production ready prototype turning out a record setting pace, but we are still years from release.

It won't be double the price. Honda ain't stupid. Besides this car will have platform and engine sharing with the new RL. Major cost to the NSX was being handmade this car will be built through regular production. Hopefully that should keep the price down.

 

[MAJOR STONER]

I remember when the S2000 was released, Honda claimed it would NEVER make another all aluminum car, due to advances in steel and steel construction. The extra material costs, manufacturing techniques, repair problems, high insurance, and safety issues were not offset by the small weight saving. Considering how much stronger the chassis must be to handle 500 hp and awd, maybe Honda will use a steel chassis to keep costs down.

 

[WingZ]

I remember when the S2000 was released, Honda claimed it would NEVER make another all aluminum car, due to advances in steel and steel construction. The extra material costs, manufacturing techniques, repair problems, high insurance, and safety issues were not offset by the small weight saving. Considering how much stronger the chassis must be to handle 500 hp and awd, maybe Honda will use a steel chassis to keep costs down.

Yeah I expect a lot of high strength steel and other polymer based materials to reduce cost and a lot of sharing of those parts as well. maybe a little titanium here and there but not much plus the mandatory CF.

I'm by no means dissing the car when I say it just doesn't look like it will be really expensive. I want this baby badly! I mean Honda has never really went for it before. NSX and S2K were meant to be competitive not dominate! A dominating Honda?? Wow!

 

[BD]

I remember when the S2000 was released, Honda claimed it would NEVER make another all aluminum car, due to advances in steel and steel construction. The extra material costs, manufacturing techniques, repair problems, high insurance, and safety issues were not offset by the small weight saving. Considering how much stronger the chassis must be to handle 500 hp and awd, maybe Honda will use a steel chassis to keep costs down.

While most car manufactures barely touch on the Aluminum chassis since the death of NSX, you can assumed that it may be the case for Honda since they didn't use it on S2000. However, S2000 was a car light enough to begin with, as well as the price point does not fit the bill. You can't possibly expect Honda to use aluminum chassis on the S2k and charge $50 grand for the car, it wouldn't sell at that price point.

The new car will have to be Aluminum plus some in order for it to be a special car. As Gordon Murray said in the past, what make NSX a special car was not it's drivability, it was the advance development on the Aluminum chassis and suspension components.

 

[MAJOR STONER]

Aluminum frame, composite tub, magnesium cradle, ...

 

[hockus]

This car is not a new NSX.
This is a totally new car from HONDA. As such it does not pretend to follow in the footsteps of the great NSX. Rather it caters to a different buyer with a different package of engine, power, handling, luxury and price point.

I will keep my NSX too. That does not make this new Super car from HONDA any less desirable.

This is what I want to make myself believe in.

 

[Greg Z]

Maybe just offer it with the promise of NO DEALER MARKUP!

Amen. Nuff said