MB GT-S 3s 0-60 and 11.2s 1/4 Mile -- NSX v2 MUST Do Better -- MUCH Better

[Superfluous]

Car and Driver clocked the new Mercedes GT-S at 3 seconds flat to 60, and 11.2 in the 1/4 mile (a private driver also did an 11.2 1/4 mile in his GT-S). In other threads, we have discussed the minimum performance figures that Acura must achieve in order for the NSX to be considered a success. At the risk of stating the obvious, the NSX clearly must surpass the MB GT-S (with a base MSRP $25k less than the NSX). Therefore, the NSX -- with its electric motors and instant torque -- must hit 60 no slower than 2.8, and must run the 1/4 mile in the mid 10s.

 

[Zoom]

When was the NSX about straight line performance ?

 

[OddJob]

I don't think the GT-S's style is something that would grow on me. Woof.

 

[Superfluous]

When was the NSX about straight line performance ?

The NSX is about performance. Performance includes BOTH straight line performance AND other performance metrics (e.g., handling). The NSX could handle better than the Porsche 918, Gumpert Apollo, Donkervoort D8, Pagani Zonda F Club Sport, Lotus 2-Eleven, Lotus Type 125, Porsche GT3RS, Ariel Atom 500, Caterham CSR, BAC Mono and Radical SR8 RX, but it will still be a commercial failure if it does not ALSO have exceptional straight line performance. In other words, the NSX must be the full package, and that includes straight line performance. My comments were directed solely at the straight line performance threshold that must be achieved for commercial success. The NSX must also, and separately, achieve other performance benchmarks (and non-performance benchmarks).

 

[Olyar15]

Gee, I always these cars were about the joys of driving. Silly me. Guess I shouldn't buy it if it doesn't live up to your expectations.

 

[JD Cross]

The NSX is about performance. Performance includes BOTH straight line performance AND other performance metrics (e.g., handling). The NSX could handle better than the Porsche 918, Gumpert Apollo, Donkervoort D8, Pagani Zonda F Club Sport, Lotus 2-Eleven, Lotus Type 125, Porsche GT3RS, Ariel Atom 500, Caterham CSR, BAC Mono and Radical SR8 RX, but it will still be a commercial failure if it does not ALSO have exceptional straight line performance. In other words, the NSX must be the full package, and that includes straight line performance. My comments were directed solely at the straight line performance threshold that must be achieved for commercial success. The NSX must also, and separately, achieve other performance benchmarks (and non-performance benchmarks).

The day you joined this site you announced to all that you had "locked up the first NSX at your friend's dealership".
It would be interesting to know how your dealership friend handled any others who had put their name down on the NSX 2.0 wait list before you came along.
Were you the first and only to show an interest?

Since that auspicious announcement you've been consistently negative and critical of the coming NSX and have a long list of all the things the car must be lest it be deemed an abject failure.
There is simply no possibility the NSX can successfully measure up to your long list of "must have" requirements
It begs the question why you would bother to "lock up" a car that you have and will surely continue to criticize loudly.

Perhaps you can shed some light on which dealership you sourced your NSX from and how you got to be first inline ahead of any others.
Would also enjoy understanding why you would buy a car you already deem to be a failure.

 

[Superfluous]

The day you joined this site you announced to all that you had "locked up the first NSX at your friend's dealership".
It would be interesting to know how your dealership friend handled any others who had put their name down on the NSX 2.0 wait list before you came along.
Were you the first and only to show an interest?

Since that auspicious announcement you've been consistently negative and critical of the coming NSX and have a long list of all the things the car must be lest it be deemed an abject failure.
There is simply no possibility the NSX can measure up to your long and large list of requirements so you will surely deem it to be a failure.
It begs the question why you would bother to "lock up" a car that you have and will surely continue to criticize loudly.

Perhaps you can shed some light on which dealership you sourced your NSX from and how to got to be first inline ahead of any others.
Would also enjoy understanding why you would buy a car you already deem to be a failure.

My sincere apologies if that is the message I have conveyed. To be clear, I love absolutely everything I have read about the NSX, and I continue to strongly believe that it will meet or exceed my expectations and desires. I am unclear why you state that I have been "consistently negative and critical of the coming NSX" and "loudly criticize" the car. Respectfully, I think you have misread and misunderstood my posts. Other than the chrome beak, I don't think I have said anything negative or critical of the NSX. Likewise, I have never "deemed the car a failure." Rather, I have merely noted the considerable competition and the increasing bar that, IMHO, the NSX must meet or exceed in order to be successful. I did not choose the NSX in a vacuum. Rather, I compared and contrasted it with other available cars. That comparison is difficult given that Acura has not yet published performance specifications for the NSX. Therefore, I can only speak to my hopes and aspirations for the NSX, using the competition as benchmarks. While undertaking these comparisons, and sharing my hopes for the NSX, I have not, as you suggest, criticized or disparaged the NSX. To the contrary, I have endeavored to exalt the NSX and its superior technology that will almost certainly produce a superlative sports car. Will I be disappointed if the NSX does not meet or exceed certain benchmarks established by the competition? Absolutely! I suspect I will not be alone.

I started this thread because, before I decided on the NSX, I strongly considered the MB GT-S; in fact, but for the NSX, I would likely purchase a GT-S. Thus, I have watched the recent release of the GT-S. Notwithstanding the noteworthy differences between the GT-S and the NSX, there is undeniably a good amount of overlap in their target markets/customers. Therefore, the performance specs for the GT-S are an appropriate data point for comparison to the NSX. I hope and believe that the NSX will exceed the GT-S' performance specs. The NSX's far more advanced drive train should trump the GT-S. Hence the reason I chose the NSX over the GT-S.

Some here speak of "the joys of driving" and other subjective considerations. I am the first to agree that these subjective factors are critically important and cannot be overlooked. On the other hand, objective benchmarks are also critically important, and also cannot be overlooked. I have endeavored to discuss these objective benchmarks here. It appears that my attempts have evoked unintended and unexpected hostility. I apologize for that.

You asked about my friend who has offered me the NSX, and how he would feel if I backed out. Given that he has agreed to sell me the NSX for MSRP, notwithstanding that he will likely sell the car to others for a considerable premium above MSRP, he would have no problem if I backed out and allowed him to earn a greater profit on the car. That said, I have no intention of backing out. I love the NSX and, wherever the performance specs ultimately come in, I remain very, very confident that the total package will be spectacular!

Again, I apologize if my comments have come across as disparagement or criticism. That was never my intent. I am thoroughly excited to own and drive a NSX. I believe the car will be an unmitigated success. The next 7-9 months are going to be tortuous.

 

[kookoo4nsx]

IMO the NSX will be laughable if it can't be WELL under a 12.2 second 1/4 and over 118 mph at the trap.
I really don't see why that should be a problem since the front wheels will be pulling from dead stop. Surely the NSX
won't have 918 type power or Hellcat for that matter. Over 500hp combined it an absolute must.
200mph top speed would be a nice gift too!:biggrin:

Some may say the NSX wasn't about straight line performance but the 1/4 miles times were quite impressive in 1991.

 

[stuntman]

The NSX 2.0 was fairly close to production components and targets when the AMG GT-S came out and was tested. So Honda set performance targets well before expecting the GT-S. I'm not saying that it won't be faster, but the longer it takes to have a car come out, the further behind the 8-ball you'll be. They set their targets on the 458, yet the new 488 will surely be faster... It's called progress.

 

[JD Cross]

You asked about my friend who has offered me the NSX, and how he would feel if I backed out. Given that he has agreed to sell me the NSX for MSRP, notwithstanding that he will likely sell the car to others for a considerable premium above MSRP, he would have no problem if I backed out and allowed him to earn a greater profit on the car. That said, I have no intention of backing out. I love the NSX and, wherever the performance specs ultimately come in, I remain very, very confident that the total package will be spectacular!

Good to hear you are a friend of the new NSX.
I noted another poster had also asked why you planned to buy the NSX based on your comments.
You didn't reply to his question until this reply.

My dealership question to you was not about you backing out of your deal.
It was how your dealer advised whomever was first on the waitlist before you came on the scene.
I'm interested in the name of the dealership that would do this.
If I had been first in line and was then bumped down I'd be a tad upset.
Who is the dealer?

 

[Superfluous]

My dealership question to you was not about you backing out of your deal.
It was how your dealer advised whomever was first on the waitlist before you came on the scene.
I'm interested in the name of the dealership that would do this.
If I had been first in line and was then bumped down I'd be a tad upset.

As far as I know, there was no one before me when the car was offered to me. Therefore, I don't think anyone was pushed aside to make room for me.

 

[JD Cross]

As far as I know, there was no one before me when the car was offered to me. Therefore, I don't think anyone was pushed aside to make room for me.

That's good news as over a year ago, based on reports here on Prime, most dealerships had waitlists.
Lucky for you that in March of this year your dealer friend had no waitlist.

 

[ShytKicker]

It's going to be in the 10.x range, there was an article about it already.

 

[fastaussie]

The NSX is about performance. Performance includes BOTH straight line performance AND other performance metrics (e.g., handling). The NSX could handle better than the Porsche 918, Gumpert Apollo, Donkervoort D8, Pagani Zonda F Club Sport, Lotus 2-Eleven, Lotus Type 125, Porsche GT3RS, Ariel Atom 500, Caterham CSR, BAC Mono and Radical SR8 RX, but it will still be a commercial failure if it does not ALSO have exceptional straight line performance. In other words, the NSX must be the full package, and that includes straight line performance. My comments were directed solely at the straight line performance threshold that must be achieved for commercial success. The NSX must also, and separately, achieve other performance benchmarks (and non-performance benchmarks).

you don't need to explain yourself to the 7 people on Prime who think it doesn't matter if the new NSX has class leading, or at least class matching performance. they may buy one regardless, but not very many others will if it runs a 4 flat 0-to-60 time (which I doubt it would). ignorance is bliss...

 

[Adamantium]

The NSX 2.0 was fairly close to production components and targets when the AMG GT-S came out and was tested. So Honda set performance targets well before expecting the GT-S. I'm not saying that it won't be faster, but the longer it takes to have a car come out, the further behind the 8-ball you'll be. They set their targets on the 458, yet the new 488 will surely be faster... It's called progress.

I think you are wrong here.

There's a reason they said north of 550 bhp rather than quote the power. The 488 wasn't officially announced. Now that it has been with the NSX specs still unconfirmed they can move it as much as they dare until they have to confirm. It's the right move to make rather than state the spec and performance figures then have no easy means of changing them to adapt to the competition.

As for the comments about the NSX 1 not being about straight line performance, that may be true, but it's a different market now with far greater competition and so any metric that puts the NSX in a better light will aid sales.

Much as I am firm in my desire to complete on my firm UK deposit, if the reviews pan the car, I can't see me going for the purchase. I'd be hugely surprised if after all the build up and fanfare they don''t knock it out of the park.

 

[stuntman]

^The power parameters were probably already set a long time ago when they froze the specs on the engines architecture, turbo sizing, electric motor capacity, etc... Its not easy to "turn it up" just as a competitors new model comes out.

 

[effer]

^The power parameters were probably already set a long time ago when they froze the specs on the engines architecture, turbo sizing, electric motor capacity, etc... Its not easy to "turn it up" just as a competitors new model comes out.

Set a long time ago knowing that the competition will improve their game, knowing that Ferrari will come with a 458 successor ... Honda is well aware of this ( as they were with the first generation NSX, targeting first the 328 and there after the 348 ) and they left themselves a confortable margin like going to 3,8L or using bigger turbos or revving higher ... For sure, as they did with the Ti conrods and VTEC for the original NSX, they will pull something.

With turbo setup it is easier to extract more juice IMVHO ...

So, this is why Honda did not commit themselves with power and weight numbers ... I agree with Adamantium on that matter.

 

[Adamantium]

^The power parameters were probably already set a long time ago when they froze the specs on the engines architecture, turbo sizing, electric motor capacity, etc... Its not easy to "turn it up" just as a competitors new model comes out.

On the contrary, it's very easy. Look at the GT-R. 2009 car 485bhp, 2012 car 550bhp. nigh on identical engine hardware (apart from minor to change to turbo inlet pipes said to be worth 10bhp but again easily changed).

 

[effer]

My dealership question to you was not about you backing out of your deal.
It was how your dealer advised whomever was first on the waitlist before you came on the scene.
I'm interested in the name of the dealership that would do this.
If I had been first in line and was then bumped down I'd be a tad upset.
Who is the dealer?

That's good news as over a year ago, based on reports here on Prime, most dealerships had waitlists.
Lucky for you that in March of this year your dealer friend had no waitlist.

LOL! Why don't you tell him straight that you don't believe he is number one on the list!?! LOL!

 

[95nsxtc]

Car and Driver clocked the new Mercedes GT-S at 3 seconds flat to 60, and 11.2 in the 1/4 mile (a private driver also did an 11.2 1/4 mile in his GT-S). In other threads, we have discussed the minimum performance figures that Acura must achieve in order for the NSX to be considered a success. At the risk of stating the obvious, the NSX clearly must surpass the MB GT-S (with a base MSRP $25k less than the NSX). Therefore, the NSX -- with its electric motors and instant torque -- must hit 60 no slower than 2.8, and must run the 1/4 mile in the mid 10s.

I've never liked most of the american car magazines, mainly because they're biased in reviews and can't be trusted, but I know this one is lying when they claim the Jaguar F-Type R is quieter than the other two lol

 

[JD Cross]

LOL! Why don't you tell him straight that you don't believe he is number one on the list!?! LOL!

I was surprised to learn there was no waitlist at his dealership in March of 2015, but no reason to believe he is not first in line.
He told us he was first the day he joined the forum.

 

[stuntman]

On the contrary, it's very easy. Look at the GT-R. 2009 car 485bhp, 2012 car 550bhp. nigh on identical engine hardware (apart from minor to change to turbo inlet pipes said to be worth 10bhp but again easily changed).

Do the 2009 & 2012 cars have the exact same (interchangeable) engine, turbos, intake manifold, exhaust, cams, pistons, etc...?

 

[Adamantium]

Minor changes to ancillaries external to the engine, such as water and boost lines.

No changes to manifold/exhaust/cams/pistons/turbos/intercooler etc. Nismo and V-spec had larger turbos, but the base GT-R that has the power numbers I quoted has no material change other than the turbo inlet pipe I already mentioned.

 

[stuntman]

Do the 2012s put down 65whp more than the 2009s?

Edit - 2012s make 530hp, not 550:

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/track-tests/2012-nissan-gt-r-dyno-tested.html

So after 3 years of development, Nissan engineers felt comfortable with a 45hp boost after 485hp proved its reliability in the field. Again, its not easy to bump power targets without long durability tests.

 

[influence82]

I do not expect the first 2015 NSXs to beat so many of the competition. It is very difficult to set a standard if it keeps changing. What I would like is for the NSX to improve every year of production, much like how the Nissan GT-R keeps getting more powerful and faster with each year. I hope that the car sells enough that Honda will always work on improving the car to keep up with the competition and beat it.