Marksman Training with Special Forces

Joined
2 May 2002
Messages
1,402
Location
Ft. Lewis, WA
Well,

I'm over here on Ft. Lewis getting some training for a future deployment. As it happens, there are only a few of us new soldiers in the battalion, that need to be trained up and attached to a unit that is deployed. But since we're fresh out of Basic Training, we have been receiving preparatory training.

For those of you who have followed me on my military adventure, you may find this progress interesting. Anyone interested in the story since the begining should start here

The last couple of weeks, we have actually got to train with Army Special Forces. Last week, we did a few nights of training involving us providing the opposing force for their training. I learned a lot about MOUT by gaining "the enemy's" perspective. Despite the fact that these soldiers were special forces, and we were just new privates, those of us who took it seriously were able to pick apart their strategies and make things really difficult for them. We used simunitions (paint rounds fired from real weapons).

In one particular scenario, I myself "killed" 4 of them while managing to survive the whole exercise (I had the advantage of the element of surprise with the first one, but I expected the rest to come get me... but they didn't, so I "killed" some more). It was cool because I made an impression on the instructor.

Today, we had 9mm training. It was nice to get some "high speed" (that's army lingo for "effective," "efficient," "elite," or otherwise useful) training. Now, this is where I had the chance to shine. Thanks largely to Zanardi 50's help back in April, I went to the range with a lot of confidence in my marksmanship and just let my training take over. I'm still new enough to shooting that I have to make a conscious effort to do it properly, even at very short distances (such as 5 meters), but of the 18 of us (including 4 NCOs), I had one of the two tightest shot groups from what I observed. One of our SF instructors came by my target and complimented me on my shooting, and pointed me out the other members of his team.

That made me glad, because during basic training, I scored mediocre at all of my shooting exercises, even though I wanted so badly to be the best shooter in the company. Now however, I feel much more confident in my shooting and ability to hit a man sized target (that is, just hit it at all, not necessarily center of mass) at 25 meteres with just a "reaction" shot. For qualification purposes, I should be able to qualify expert with not much problem (though I will have to be able to apply these skills while wearing full armor, which changes some things, but the fundamentals seem to be solidifying into my mind and muscle memory).

Anyway, I asked one of the instructors if I could go shooting with him this (or whatever) weekend, and he said I could. Tomorrow, we will be going back out for more training with the SF team and doing similar drills with the M4.

All in all, other than actually being on a Special Forces team, as an MP, I could not have asked for more. I will hopefully be able to volunteer for SF when I get back from deployment, so all of this exposure to SF is a great boost of confidence and motivation.

Thanks for stopping by and checking out my little military "journal.":smile:
 
Well,


The last couple of weeks, we have actually got to train with Army Special Forces. Last week, we did a few nights of training involving us providing the opposing force for their training. I learned a lot about MOUT by gaining "the enemy's" perspective. Despite the fact that these soldiers were special forces, and we were just new privates, those of us who took it seriously were able to pick apart their strategies and make things really difficult for them. We used simunitions (paint rounds fired from real weapons).

Thanks for stopping by and checking out my little military "journal.":smile:

I used to "play" aggessor for the Marines...DO NOT UNDER-ESTIMATE "operators"...THEY ARE "IN TRAINING" TOO.
Good luck and strive to become one of the elite!
 
Volunteer/Sign up and they will pay you!

For the military or for the training?

I don't qualify for the military, due to a bit of a dissability, and even if I did, my wife wouldn't let me... If I could do just the training, I'd be all up for it..

Having lived in a Commuist country before and knowing what that means, I respect greatly the hard work, training and sacrifice men in uniform provide.
 
Actually, now I'm wishing I had enlisted for Special Forces, but, alas, I'm an MP. Not that it's terrible... but the quality of soldier, as well as the quality of human being is superior in SF. They ALL actually care about what they're doing, whereas the "convential" soldier is just a guy... some guys are great, others mediocre, and others sleezebags. That can be a demotivating factor, which is one reason why I want to shoot for Special Forces (the main reason I want SF is because I want to be better than I am right now, and I know that I will be pushed and motivated by my compatriots, whereas now, my "battle buddies" try to get out of doing as much as possible).
 
Actually, now I'm wishing I had enlisted for Special Forces, but, alas, I'm an MP. Not that it's terrible... but the quality of soldier, as well as the quality of human being is superior in SF. They ALL actually care about what they're doing, whereas the "convential" soldier is just a guy... some guys are great, others mediocre, and others sleezebags. That can be a demotivating factor, which is one reason why I want to shoot for Special Forces (the main reason I want SF is because I want to be better than I am right now, and I know that I will be pushed and motivated by my compatriots, whereas now, my "battle buddies" try to get out of doing as much as possible).

All "groups" have their top and bottom...and as the "cream rises to the top" you get better cream and worse cream...but you're right, at least its all cream.

I recall a few guys in my fighter squadron that were "bringing up the rear"...in fact, I was probably one of them! :-0
 

Military Operations in Urban Terrain. It's what SWAT teams call CQB (Close Quarters Battle). Basically, it's SWAT type stuff: entering a building, controlling a room, maximizing the element of surprise etc. It requires a very high degree of coordination and speed within the assault team. Everyone must know his job; there can be no confusion or hesitation. You can read an indepth article about it at Wiki, which is where I first found out about it during my pre-enlistment research.

The training is very fun, but in reality, it's just about the most dangerous kind of combat there is.
 
Are they training you on M4's or A2's or A4's?

What red dot optic are they using for training?
 
We trained with the M4, but mostly with the Beretta 9mm (half a day of M4, one day and a half of 9mm). We trained on close quarters battle type shooting (controlled pairs, double taps, failure drills etc).

For me, I have a hard time getting the M4 to cooperate with my armor, since the recoil causes it to slide up and off of my shoulder. If I use my chest for recoil control, then the sights are too low for me to get my eye down on it comfortably. Since we don't get to carry our weapons around, or even shoot them during our free time, it's hard to come up with a way of holding the rifle that I can test for effectiveness. The best I can do for now is to take a "rubber duck" (a rubber M4) and mess around with it until I'm comfortable... but even then, I can't fire a rubber duck, so I don't know for sure that I have an effective stance.

But that's nitpicking. In reality, I can hit the target every time, it's just that getting a tight shot group in the scenarios we practiced is difficult for me as of right now.
 
I have to say that having spent some time with "operators," it really is a different ball game. Just being around them makes me feel like a chump. Being allowed to use the SF range to practice shooting, and then, going to the range with my unit today to qualify with my M4, it's a different world.

In the conventional army, when you go to a live fire range, the range safety officer dictates exactly what and when you do ("secure a 20-round magazine. Lock and load that 20 round magazine. Engage your targets). At the SF range, even though safety is still the priority, it's a lot more "relaxed," and you actually LEARN how to shoot at a threat, rather than just a man-shaped target. There is time for critique, and to ask questions and to try out the suggestions that the instructors make. It's awesome.

Speaking of which, if you remember my qualification back in basic training, I hit 23/40, which is exactly the minimum necessary to qualify. Today, we shot at paper targets (a little easier), so the standard for qualification is 26/40.

Well... the target detail didn't staple my target up properly, so after I fired my first two shots, it started flapping in the wind. The NCO in charge of my lane told me to clear my weapon and wait for the next iteration (we fired two sets of 20 shots). When the second round came up, he went down range and re-stapled my target and said, "lock and load. Fire all 40 shots in this iteration, and you better be fast." So I had to fire my remaining shots (38 of them) in the same time that everyone else had to fire 20. And when I had about 5 or 6 shots left, my target started flapping again, so I had to wait for wind to die down between shots.

So I rushed it. I'm not really sure why I went as fast as I did (I finished before a couple of people), and after shooting so fast, I started thinking that it was foolish to do so. Anyway, At the end of the day, I hit 35/40, which was the highest score of the day (that I'm aware of). I figured that's not too bad considering my haste. I feel that I could have hit 38 or 39, though, which would have qualified me "expert." But for now, until the next time I get to qualify, I will be wearing the sharpshooter badge on my Class A.

Still, I'm really starting to feel a lot more confident about my shooting, and my ability to "soldier" overall (Thanks again, Bill :smile: ).
 
An Update On The Shooting

We went to the shooting range on Wednesday again. We had the same deal as last time with the paper targets, 40 shots, 4 at each target. This time was not a record qualification, however, so the results don't count.

Anyway, our NCO told us that for the sake of preparing for combat, we should not fire any rounds from the supported position (except for when we zero the weapon). For some reason, I can't get a consistant sight picture when I zero any weapon. It's rare for my shots to actually go through the center of mass on the zeroing target. I think it honestly has something to do with the sandbags that are meant to support the weapon, and keep it steady. I seem to shoot "better" when I don't rely on them. I suspect this has more to do with me trying to adjust to the position of the bag than taking the time to set up the bags so that they are suited to my anatomy, and therefore, I cannot get comfortable, so I wind up shooting from awkward positions.

When I say "eff the sandbag" and just use my non-firing elbow for support (rest it on the ground), I have a much easier time lining up the front sight, rear sight, and target with my eye (rather than trying to line my eye up to the rear sight, and then adjusting the weapon so that the front sight lines up, and then moving my whole body so that the front sight is set on the center of mass, and then trying to adjust the sandbag so that it is tall/short enough to support the barrel).

Anyway, when I zero, that's what I go through every time. After about 12 shots not going through the center of mass, I ditched the sand bag, fired 6 more shots, and put 4 of them through the center... well, 4 of them grouped in a 4 cm area centered on the target's center of mass, to be more precise.

So, on to the (unofficial) qualification. Normally, we fire 20 shots prone/supported, 10 shots prone/unsupported, and 10 shots kneeling. Like I said before, our NCO instructed us to fire 20 prone/unsupported, and 20 kneeling. This is "supposed" to be harder, since a supported position offers the most stability, and therefore consistancy. I have trouble firing supported, however, which probably means that when I qualify, I will score lower than what would accurately reflect my "practical" shooting ability.

This time, there were no distractions, no flapping targets and no weapon malfuntions (well, I did get a double feed on 19th and 20th rounds, but that was easily fixed).

I took my time with each shot. The sight picture was noticably a little shakey, but then, with a little patience that can be overcome. I kinda just wait for the weapon to "bounce" into the right place and squeeze a little more on the trigger. If it doesn't fire, I wait a little more (a grand total of about 1/2 second) for the weapon to bounce into the right spot again and then squeeze some more. I keep doing this until the weapon fires (usally it happens on the first try, but sometimes I need two trys. If it doesn't go off after the second, I "reset" the whole shot, taking my finger off the trigger, opening both eyes, and breathing all over again).

There was one shot that I knew missed, because I could see that the recoil was all over the place... it was a poorly executed shot altogether. Other than that, I was pretty sure of the other 39 shots. When I went up to get my target, I saw that one of the shots aimed at the smallest target (the sillohette intended to simulate a 300m target) had missed by what would probably have been about 1 foot if the target were actually 300 meters away. All the remaining targets each had 4 shots in them save for one of the 200 meter targets. It had 3. There were a total of 39 holes in the paper, so either one shot went EXACTLY through the same place as a previous shot, or it missed the paper altogether (this target was near the edge of the paper, so it is not unlikely that this was my one totally jacked up shot... the jacked up shot was at that sillohette, too, so I believe that it did miss the paper altogether.

So my score at the end of the day was 38/40, which would have qualified me "expert." I suspect that there would have been no difference to my numerical score if I were able to fire from the prone/supported (that is to say both permitted to, and actually able to), since the one shot that I threw was from the kneeling position. If I could master the whole supported thing, I may have hit the smallest target with that 4th shot, but, more importantly, my shots at each target would most likely have been more tightly grouped, which is what really measures the difference between two shooters with the same numerical score.

All in all, I'm happy with my results, but I would like to get my glasses checked, since I think they are a little too weak for my eyes (ah, the downward spiral of corrective lenses). Anyway, I feel that this most recent trip to the range is a fairly accurate representation of my "typical" shooting ability, though I still see a lot of room for improvement when it comes to grouping my shots.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top