Major clutch problems!

[NSX Prime]

I just picked up a 92 NSX with 90k on the clock at an auction. I got an awesome price, so I can't complain.

My problem... They said the clutch was replaced a couple weeks ago during the filming (the auction was for cars from the Fast and the Furious 2).

I found the papers where the mechanic changed it, marked the mileage, and then the car was only driven another 2mi. after that.

First off: The clutch does not BEGIN to engage until the pedal is almost all the way out. I was thinking maybe I just needed to adjust it, but from searching and reading it appears there is no way to adjust it, it's automatic?

Second: Shifting is near impossible. You have to push HARD to get it into gear, so at first I was assuming that the clutch was not disengaging all the way.

Third: Idea 2 went out the window when I floored the car in 3rd, and the clutch just slipped.

I would think it was just some sort of adjustment somewhere to bring the clutch into the proper release/contact zone, BUT being that it's SO very hard to shift into a gear, I think maybe they didn't initialize it or something? I'm very new to NSX's and haven't taken apart the drivetrain on one. Also I cannot get it into reverse at all.

The tranny itself feels ok once it's in gear, and all gears do the same thing. Hopefully it's just a clutch issue...from someone that didn't know how to install it correctly.

Thanks in advance for any help guys and gals!
SR

 

[Periokid]

I would bleed the clutch hydaulics first.

If there is any air in the system, you could have engagement/disengagement issues.

 

[NSX Prime]

Any DIY's for that laying around? It should be fairly straightforward like on my Lex SC300. I hope.

If it does come to be an "uninitialized" clutch, what's involved in fixing that? I've replaced many a clutch on a RWD car, but they were all front engine so it was easy. Do I have to drop the tranny out of the car to do it?

Thanks again!

SR

 

[Larry Bastanza]

CmputerWiz,

I guess the first question is do you have any idea as to what clutch is in there?? If it is an OEM clutch I would say they do grab on the high side.

Bleeding is just like bleeding brakes ACCEPT you will only get 4-5 strokes out of the little reservoir and you will need to add more.

Before you do all that, I suggest you check the reservoir first, if low, find out why. Does the pedal feel like you are pushing the pressure plate, or is it mussy?? Check for fluid on the trans case by the slave, and check on the floor by the clutch master for wetness.

In regard to re-initializing, if it was initilized properly, re-initialization is not really going to help. But it does sound like you really have little understanding of the history. Any way to get in touch with the mechanic that did it??

If you want to go that route, you can do it without removal of anything, accept the flywheel cover mounted on the trans right at the engine/trans seam. If the car has a stock exhaust it is really easy, if it has headers it will be a little more difficult, but still possible.

Check the service manual to see the process first to get a good understanding of what needs to be done. You will need a small 5mm bolt to thread into the fylwheel at about 120 degrees apart. If you go to the fuel injector covers on the engine there are four small black bolts, a perfect fit, use one of those.

If the clutch has not been initialized, you will thread the bolt into the holes and using a small wrench tighten them until you feel resistance, just a tick more and you are there. Repeat on all three holes. Typically during this process, IF it is not initialized you will hear a charicteristic "ping" of the intermediate pressure plate as it "squares up" with the fylwheel.

Private me if you have any questions. Happy to help.

HTH,
LarryB

 

[Biaggi]

Congrats on your purchase! Please post pics of your new car! As for the clutch, mine engages near the top, not near the floor board. I have about 15k of 'easy' weekend driving miles since mine was replaced. I hope this helps...

------------------
Biaggi
92 NSX #483
94 CBR900RR

[This message has been edited by Biaggi (edited 14 January 2003).]

 

[NSX Prime]

Larry,

Thanks for all the great info! I'm going to go out there now and re-initialize the thing. I seriously doubt theres a way I can get in touch with the mechanic that worked on it, it's a generic Universal Studios mechanic...so he likely didn't know about initiazization. Could it do any major damage if it was not initialized and then driven a couple hundred miles?

The pedal feels fine when I depress/release it. I really have no idea if the car has aftermarket exhaust manifolds. I know the muffler is. Is the factory manifold cast or tubular steel?

I'll brb, going to go out and throw it on some jackstands! I can't wait to get a lift in my garage again! Also if I can get enough light under there I'll document the process with my digicam. I take pics of EVERYTHING.

Thanks again!
SR

 

[NSX Prime]

Ok. So I initialized the clutch. First two times I screwed in the bolt, nothing. Third time, it made a little click. So I get in the car and start it. I can now shift 1-5 VERY easy, whereas before it was really really notchy. Maybe it's just that way because its on jackstands, but I don't know yet. Main issue: I still cannot get into reverse. I tried EVERYTHING I can think of.

Tried 1st to R. 3rd to R. 4th to R. Nada. I know there's a lockout of some sorts from 5-R so I didn't try that.

So I put the car in neutral, and get out. Lo and behold, the tires are still spinning, albeit very slowly. I hit the brakes to stop them from spinning. As soon as I let go, they start spinning again very slowly. So I know the clutch is not disengaging all the way. But while in NEUTRAL?! Am I missing something? I'm going to go out and mess with it some more, to verify it wasn't just a fluke that time.

HELP!

What should I do? I'm guessing that's why reverse still won't work since the clutch isn't releasing all the way. I read that there is no adjustment for the clutch. From what they said, it was replaced with an OEM clutch.

Again, thanks in advance for any help!
SR

edit: forgot to mention. Even with the car off, I cannot get into reverse. I hope this isn't a synchro problem. :-/

[This message has been edited by CmputerWiz (edited 15 January 2003).]

 

[NSX Prime]

OK! Last update for the night, I'm going to go out driving now.

Being more and more pissed off by the minute, I got in the car and simply used the power of the force (or more like force it) to get it into reverse. I banged and pulled on it for 5mins straight, then all the sudden I hear CLANK from the back, and it's in reverse! It now shift thru all gears nice and smooth!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now to take it out and see if the clutch it tight. Before it was slipping, but I assume that was because it wasn't initialized.

Amazing how a little thing like that could cause SO many major problems. Exactly what happens when you initialize it, and what causes the problems when it's not done correctly?

Thanks again everyone!!!
SR

p.s. Once I get some decent pics taken, my site is www.NSXTuner.com. YES the wing in the current frontpage pic has been removed.

That came with the car from the Fast and the Furious filming...lol And I have it for sale on eBay.

EDIT: Sorry to be such a postwhore!

I took it for a drive, and for the first time it would shift and clutch would engage correctly. All I can say is WOW. And to think of all the blood and sweat I put into my Lexus only to have this stock and by FAR outhandle it. At least the Lex would take this easily in a straight line....for now.

[This message has been edited by CmputerWiz (edited 15 January 2003).]

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Computerwiz,

I have to say your "fix reverse" method is a little scary!!! But it sounds like something may have been slightly out of alignment, maybe something with the shifter, not really sure. Do you know if the trans was apart at anytime??

Anyway, the NSX has a dual plate OEM clutch. This means there is an "intermediate plate" between the two clutch plates. This imtermediate plate must be set so when you disengage the clutch it moves away from the flywheel just the right amount as the free BOTH clutch disks. (Basically it's a club sandwich!!)

Dimensions are very tight in there, if I recall to total travel of this intermediate plate is about .040". When the clutch is released this plate must move just far enough but not too far to release BOTH clutch disks. The intermediate plate rides on three guide pins that move. What you did by initializing was to move these pins so they are exactly at the same depth, against the intermediate plate, therefore "squaring up" the imtermediate plate so it moves as it should and does not bind.

So it is "initialized" in the proper position.

BTW, this is not a "typical" setup. So a mechanic not trained or familiar with it, would not know. I suspect this mechanic put it together like any other clutch and put the trans back in.

Glad it worked out.

HTH,
LarryB

 

[tpearsall]

CmputerWiz,
Are those stock wheels that have been chromed? If you could you most some pics of them?

Thanks.


[This message has been edited by tpearsall (edited 15 January 2003).]

 

[cpmoran]

Glad to see you got your car shifting. I also have a 92 white black, with 52k RM intak, headers, exhaust, rotors, pads, swaybars, antiroll bar, new style wheels and 4point harness. I have had it for one month and I love it. As someone else here says "live life with and nsx"

 

[NSX Prime]

Well I drove the car hard today. After about 30mins of driving and it all gets heated up, when I put it in a high gear (3-5) and floor it, the clutch slips. It won't hold to save my life.

They SAID it's a brand new clutch, and the maintenance records I got with it show it to have been replaced a few miles ago. But it just SLIIIIPS when it's warm. While cold it holds. And BOY can I smell it when it slips. Any ideas?

Also, I put on some aftermarket rims (17x7 & 17x8.5). My traction control keeps activating now...anyone else have this issue? It didn't start until I had these wheels on the car.

As for whomever asked about the wheels....I assumed they were factory chromed wheels. Did those only come in silver? I'll take some pics tomorrow and post them for you.

As for my car...it has sparco kevlar seats, intake with cone filter, some sort of tubular exhaust manifold...not sure who's. Aftermarket exhaust, 4-point harnesses. Not sure what else yet. Passenger window will not go up and down, and the radio crackles BAD BAD BAD when you touch the volume knob. That's about it for the car!

SR

 

[Larry Bastanza]

compuerwiz,

Well things do not sound too good for the clutch. It could be they slopped on too much grease, it is not really new, can't really tell from a forum correspondence.

I think you will have to pull it apart, it will be the only way to know for sure. If it is slipping and smells, it is the only thing you can do now.

The wheels you have are probably not within spec for diameter ratio front to rear. Check the FAQ and you will see all the data about this subject. Look at the "TCS" section.

In regard to the window, it probably has the "exploding" window regulator problem. You will have to pull the door panel and investigate it. Remember when you pull the door panel that the chrome strip at the top of the door panel DOES NOT come off with the panel.

Good Luck,
LarryB

 

[PettittsAuto]

If your clutch is engaging at the top of the pedal and it is slipping when warmed up there might not be enough freeplay at the top of the pedal. You should have a little freeplay when you first start to push the clutch in. If you have pressure right when you push on the pedal the pedal height needs to be adjusted. This can be done with the pushrod on the clutch master cylinder. The reason it doesn't slip when cold is the clutch assembly will expand with heat and take up clearance. This may not be your problem but I would check it out.

Bruce www.pettittsauto.com

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Bruce,

Great thought. Computerwiz did mention a "high" clutch pedal to begin with. My only concern now is, did it get "cooked"?.

LarryB

 

[NSX Prime]

I will check that rod, I completely forgot about it. I was going to adjust that the first day I got this thinking that was the problem, then got on the track of initializing the clutch...and never looked back..lol

I'll run out and check that now, because i know the clutch engages RIGHT near the top.

edit: I've been very careful not to let it slip. As soon as I feel it coming loose I let off the gas to make sure it doesn't get too cooked. As long as it holds for the next couple months I'm fine with it, by then I'll have upgraded to a puck clutch with a 6-speed.

Thanks!
SR

[This message has been edited by CmputerWiz (edited 16 January 2003).]

 

[NSX Prime]

THAT WAS IT!

Thanks a million guys! This forum is very very helpful! The connector was screwed ALL the way to the very end on the clutch pushrod, it wasn't letting it come all the way out. After about an HOUR of trying to work in that tiny little space, I managed to get the connector off the pedal assembly, turn it in 4 rotations, and put it back on. The clutch is now TIGHT with *NO* slippage.

Only issue now, is that return spring. I can't get it back on to save my life. I tried getting a mini-crowbar in there to flex it, but there just isn't enough room to do it. I'll figure something out!

Thanks!
SR