Lotus making the new NSX?

[nsxbuilder]

The Evora is already a COPY of the NSX in everything but the skin, and now this?

What the hell happened to Honda? I wrote a letter to their F1 team back when they went 'green' and asked them who they were marketing to in the racing world. Then they lost a bunch of races and capital "F" Failed.

Rant!

 

[docjohn]

there are a bunch of threads hating on Honda for thier current offering.We could probably have a forum dedicated to ranting and yelling and berrating honda for pulling away from performance sports cars..We also have plenty of Lotus applause threads,but most of us are just wishing that our taunts would cause honda do pull an about face...sadly most of us have given up,except for maybe 3 members who cling to every wacky internet rumor about a supersports car from honda...

 

[nsxbuilder]

All true Johnny, but Lotus is getting hailed as this great, forward looking sports car company when Honda has had the same product out for over 20 years. I guess I'm both old AND thin skinned.

But really - you want the knock off of a visual design, look no further than the Esprit.

 

[Midnight_Raven]

You know what I'm thinking. Isn't the main problem with Honda making sport cars is that people don't want to pay a lot for a Honda. I'm wondering would it be a good idea for Honda to open up a third branch one that is specifically sport car. Honda "Economy" branch, Acura "Luxury" Branch, and XXXXX "Sport car" branch.

If you think about it most sport car companies that are successful and well respected (Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, Lotus, etc) are sport car only car makers for the past couple of decades and only recently are considering/starting to make other types of vehicles. Maybe Honda should follow that idea if they want a profitable and respectable sport car. Design a new sports car line up and at the same time launch their new branch at the same time.

 

[bboxer]

It is truly sad that Lotus is being judged (and compared to Honda and others) on a strictly eye-candy effect and an unrealistic effort by Lotus to attract suitors and investors. It is no secret in the auto industry that their Paris "snow job" was nothing but the intended result of an 18 months, cleverly budgeted effort to hire a great designer and come up with nothing but concept cars and have a backup plan (read "story") to address the expected questions about powertrain and engine configuration. This from a company that is already having a hard time surviving with its present products and looking for $. Reality is that most people in the know are starting to laugh off this latest Lotus "road show".

The NSX was a spectacular creation started on a clean sheet of paper, backed by management ($), executed by clever engineers with an open mission to beat the competition typified by the Ferrari entry level V8. The only comparable product with an identical mission and the engineering and $ to back it up is the McLaren MP4-12C. This is one car everyone should be eager to see come to life. I for one cannot wait.

 

[nsxbuilder]

bboxer, I couldn't agree more.

That's all I really wanted was for someone to agree withe me. I feel better now.

 

[FogCityNSX]

Give it up. Current honda/acura is a joke compared to what it was. If I were to buy a showroom new car, it would NOT be a honda/acura vehicle no matter what it was. I'm MUCH more tempted to buy a Hyundai or Kia! Or GM! Or Ford!

And the only Toyota I'd be tempted to buy would be the new Tundra, but for the price........ it'd be slim compared to the current TD offerings by the domestics.

Back to the early roots, meat and potatoes. Lotus builds sports cars. Honda builds green machines. The japanese version of the VW beetle in a way.

 

[Midnight_Raven]

It is truly sad that Lotus is being judged (and compared to Honda and others) on a strictly eye-candy effect and an unrealistic effort by Lotus to attract suitors and investors. It is no secret in the auto industry that their Paris "snow job" was nothing but the intended result of an 18 months, cleverly budgeted effort to hire a great designer and come up with nothing but concept cars and have a backup plan (read "story") to address the expected questions about powertrain and engine configuration. This from a company that is already having a hard time surviving with its present products and looking for $. Reality is that most people in the know are starting to laugh off this latest Lotus "road show".

The NSX was a spectacular creation started on a clean sheet of paper, backed by management ($), executed by clever engineers with an open mission to beat the competition typified by the Ferrari entry level V8. The only comparable product with an identical mission and the engineering and $ to back it up is the McLaren MP4-12C. This is one car everyone should be eager to see come to life. I for one cannot wait.

According to what Uehara said, the NSX was never backed up by management. Actually Honda's management opposed the idea and fought hard to not let it happen... it was only the engineers that kept pushing for it and management finally gave in after being proven wrong by the engineers. Well that what I got from reading the following translation.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143944

 

[bboxer]

According to what Uehara said, the NSX was never backed up by management. Actually Honda's management opposed the idea and fought hard to not let it happen... it was only the engineers that kept pushing for it and management finally gave in after being proven wrong by the engineers. Well that what I got from reading the following translation.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143944

You are correct about management resitance but a project of this magnitude almost always gets resistance at its onset and also as enginneers start introducing new costly ideas and production changes. But, once accepted almost always gets eventual backup and $. When we visited Toshigi in 98 right about mid-life production and listened to Uehara, there was nothing indicating a handicapped production. You read about management resistance almost always when it comes to new performance cars that are commercial risks or sure $ losses. Toyota did not give the green light for the LF-A concept for over two years we are told. Even Ferrari had a hard time accepting the concept of a Supercar" (288 GTO) in the early 80's even though it was really just a highly modified 3X8.

 

[jas303]

It is clear and reasonable that Honda decided, in tough economy or not, to stop making cars that are not profitable. Everyone knows Honda lost money in every NSX (and S2000) that was sold. Similar talks can be found all over this forum. People are (and still) asking Honda to build a NSX successor, while they ask Honda to keep the price "reasonable". If Honda lost money at $88,000 price tag for the NSX, how can the NSX successor ever set tires at the showroom floor at a lower price tag? But if Honda does set the price tag at $120,000, they'll end up losing money by selling too few. So I believe Honda made the right choice. IMHO, Honda's biggest issue today is not without a trademark sports car, but with too many ugly production cars.

 

[docjohn]

I 'm not so sure the s2000 was'nt profitable

 

[tbromley]

It is clear and reasonable that Honda decided, in tough economy or not, to stop making cars that are not profitable. Everyone knows Honda lost money in every NSX (and S2000) that was sold. Similar talks can be found all over this forum. People are (and still) asking Honda to build a NSX successor, while they ask Honda to keep the price "reasonable". If Honda lost money at $88,000 price tag for the NSX, how can the NSX successor ever set tires at the showroom floor at a lower price tag? But if Honda does set the price tag at $120,000, they'll end up losing money by selling too few. So I believe Honda made the right choice. IMHO, Honda's biggest issue today is not without a trademark sports car, but with too many ugly production cars.

I hate to tell you Jas that Porsche has made a life off of not going up on their cars and still improving them. Using different materials to do it. The 964 was a 75% new car and then the 993 was as well and they both sold for just about the same price. Then they went to the 996 and then 997 and now the 997.2 with DFI and all the while increasing horsepower and making the cars better and holding the prices with small increases. The basic 911 Carrera 997.2 is still around what the last NSX was! So

So when you talk about Honda not making any money and poor ole company can't figure it out - Honda needs an ass kicking for that kind of thinking and they need to get with the program and build a car that is a real sportscar - they don't have to make a 12 cylinder Lambo knock off - they just need to make a cool sports car and keep making them and making them better and finding a way to be competitive and keep prices in line. If Porsche can do it why the hell can't Honda do it? They just can't play in the arena - that's what I'm getting out of it. They just need to keep trying until they make another great car that attracts the buying public.

Porsche was in dire straights until the built the 993 and that brought em out of it - Honda could do it if they put their minds to it. They just need to buckle down and make a committment! While they're at it they can take the "beak" off the Acura - talk about a design mistake....

My 2 cents....

 

[NSX2398]

It is no secret in the auto industry that their Paris "snow job" was nothing but the intended result of an 18 months, cleverly budgeted effort to hire a great designer and come up with nothing but concept cars and have a backup plan (read "story") to address the expected questions about powertrain and engine configuration.

You might want to listen to a recent interview of Bob Lutz on Autoline Detroit (http://www.autolinedetroit.tv/daily/?p=13606). Bob is known as a no nonsense 'car guy' who is now on the Lotus board so he's very close to what's going on there. In the interview, he says that the majority of those "snow job" concepts are drivable prototypes and seems to generally suggest that they share components and could quickly come to market.

He also seems to be suggesting that although Lotus is trying to up the volumes to be profitable, it's at levels that others would consider to be quite low. Remember that Lotus Engineering does outside work for others and is profitable on low volume, special projects.

 

[robbiedawg]

You might want to listen to a recent interview of Bob Lutz on Autoline Detroit (http://www.autolinedetroit.tv/daily/?p=13606). Bob is known as a no nonsense 'car guy' who is now on the Lotus board so he's very close to what's going on there. In the interview, he says that the majority of those "snow job" concepts are drivable prototypes and seems to generally suggest that they share components and could quickly come to market.

He also seems to be suggesting that although Lotus is trying to up the volumes to be profitable, it's at levels that others would consider to be quite low. Remember that Lotus Engineering does outside work for others and is profitable on low volume, special projects.

judging by nsx2398's avatar,he knows wherof he speaks about snow jobs

 

[V.Lats97nsx]

Economy is the key word, 1990 dow was at 2500. It quadrupled in 10 years. Can you understand the billions that were made by investers and still you only seen a couple hundred nsx's sold in America. Honda is a business they don't care about us. In 96 While honda was busy adding an exta .2 liters, they had porsche, ferrari, lambo, etc 2miles ahead of them. It will cost them too much money to put a respectedcar that will compete with a 0to60 in low 3second or under in this day and age. Come on u really think honda can produce something that can do in the low 4's. Look at the crz, id rather pay that kind of money for a crx in mint condition.

 

[tbromley]

In 96 when Honda was adding .2 more litres Porsche had gone to a 3.6 but the horses were still only 285 - I had one - it's not as fast as the NSX. What Honda did was just to loose sight of what sports car development was all about. They just quit - that's all there is to it. They quit on it and sat back and worked on F1 and then the LMP2 - i have no idea what the hell was in their heads to just stop on the sports car and then they came out with the S2000???? What the hell - they went backwards sort of - I mean that is a cool car but it was the junior to the NSX. I don't get it. I am at a complete loss to understand what is in the minds of Honda - hell the turbo charged the small SUV and can't even furnish a tubo charger for the Civic SI? I mean what gives and they have a 2 door Accord and there is no SI version but you get the TL S version - I have no idea why Honda is so reluctant to build sports cars - it's like all they can do is build "teasers".

WEIRD! All I'm sayin is that Porsche has made a life out of improving their sports cars - and they are profitable - so there is a way!

 

[captainjman]

You know what... I've got an idea! Yes, I am a little drunk at the moment, but damn it, I think I may have something here!

There is a lot of mechanical know how in the NSX community. Ive seen so many posts of people who fabricate their own front and rear ends, HID lights, etc etc.

Why not create a panel of current owners to work together on a design, engine,assembly and fabrication.. and create our own successor. Im willing to bet we could come up with a total package, patent it, and bring it to Honda. If they refuse, we could move forward ourselves.

Its not the worlds worst idea. Think about it, if after the initial design stage, assuming Honda tells us to F-off, we could take orders and deposits from current NSX owners from prime which would finance a low production run! Think of all the knowledge and knowhow from all the engineers, suppliers and vendors!

Think of a V8 or V10 twin turbo from lovefab, angus or SOS, heck, we could offer different variants with each system!

Sure this is all a little crazy, but its not a bad idea! If we don't have enough orders to move forward, we simply refund the deposits and no harm no foul!

 

[tbromley]

Jason please reread your post when you sober up...lol....hahahaha - this is so crazy dude. I can just imagine you really must be entertaining the wife around there during your convelesence! You're not doing a bad job here.

I'm not poking fun at you - I'm laughing with you - I want some of whatever it is your having!!!:biggrin:

 

[captainjman]

Jason please reread your post when you sober up...lol....hahahaha - this is so crazy dude. I can just imagine you really must be entertaining the wife around there during your convelesence! You're not doing a bad job here.

I'm not poking fun at you - I'm laughing with you - I want some of whatever it is your having!!!:biggrin:

I am definitely not offended... and yes, I am still on meds, but why not try a project and see where it goes? Could be fun! I think we have some absolutely amazing people here, some from engineering, mechanics, financial backgrounds. We have a great platform to work from... using an NSX chassis.. and just go from there. Its not a HORRIBLE idea. Maybe a little far fetched, and definitely a long shot, but there could be something there!

Lets start with a chassis from a parted out car, then build from there. For starters maybe use an engine from a different vehicle all together.. like a GTR or 911 turbo, whatever...

I just don't think its THAT impossible.. I'm surprised no one has thought about it.

Jason:biggrin: