Losing oil, and lots of it !!

4

4AU4LIFE

Legendary Member
Joined
16 June 2002
Messages
9,960
Location
Jacksonville
I was recently at the NOPI show in Atl. I had the car dynoed there and during the dyno we realized the car was almost out of oil. I remember checking before I left home (Jacksonville) and the level was alright. We added 2(?) quarts to it and I went on my way.
I got home and didn't drive the car for about a week. I checked it again and I needed to add ANOTHER quart.
I don't understand where this stuff is going. There are no puddles of oil under the car in garage. No smoke from the engine compartment? I'm lost.
Yesterday after I added another quart since it was between the dots on the stick I drove it 2 hours south. I then parked car for couple of hours. Upon restarting it blew white smoke out the pipes for a couple of seconds, then everything was alright.
Any suggestions or help would be appreciated.

BTW...BBSC equipped, everything stock. 44K on the car. No 30-6-90k maintenance done to my knowledge yet.

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ALL NSX
92 RED/BLACK 5-SPEED
 
There is definitely something terribly wrong with your car.

Since you say it hasn't had any maintenance in the past ten years
eek.gif
that's not surprising.

I know of someone who never changed the oil in his NSX - yes, never - and ended up needing to buy a new engine, at a cost of around $20K.

You can do all the scheduled preventive maintenance when it's due, or you will face expensive repairs down the road. "Pay now, or pay a lot more later." Your time to pay has now come due.

Take it to the nearest dealer who does a lot of NSX service work, and expect to pay a lot of money.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 06 October 2002).]
 
Well the oil has been changed like it is supposed to be. Maybe I didn't relay that bit of information. I meant that the major services haven't been done that I know of.

Why should I expect to pay a LOT of money? Oil doesn't just evaporate so it is a mystery to were it can all be going.


------------------
ALL NSX
92 RED/BLACK 5-SPEED
 
depends on how much white smoke is coming out, it could well be blowing the oil out the exhaust. even if you don't notice it it still could be coming out especially if you did notice it once. maybe with the new bbsc and no maintenance the rings are starting to feel the wear or could be the cylinder walls got damaged but i'd geuss the first case with out looking or smelling the car
 
I know of someone who never changed the oil in his NSX - yes, never - and ended up needing to buy a new engine, at a cost of around $20K.
Click to expand...

I know of some one that has one of those lexus SUV's that they have never changed the oil (3 years). The company leases it for him.(He owns the company).To make the story short he blew the engine and wants Toyota to pay for it. He said since it was a luxury car it shouldn't need any maintanace. What an idiot!!!!! I think Toyota replaced it for him. Who's the bigger idiot?


I would get that NSX checked out as soon as possible. If the car was detonating under boost you could have broken the rings. I wouldn't drive it anymore like that.

[This message has been edited by nsxxtreme (edited 06 October 2002).]
 
Sounds as though oil is leaking past worn valve guides or piston rings and being burned up in the combustion chamber. Check your spark plugs for oily deposits.
Good Luck!
 
I didn't hear any detonating. Pinging sound right? Just before I let the car set I did rev it up to about 6k though, if that makes any difference.
I drove it again this morning and everything 'appears' alright. No sign of smoke or anything.
Any idea where the oil is going though?


------------------
ALL NSX
92 RED/BLACK 5-SPEED
 
If you don't know what (if any) maintenance has been done to it, there are a lot of things that could be wrong. It might have ten-year-old coolant in it
eek.gif
and an ineffective cooling system can be causing problems. It could be the head gasket. It certainly needs a leakdown test or whatever it's called to test compression etc. Oh and even though it wouldn't cause engine problems, I would hate to even think about ten-year-old brake fluid
eek.gif
...

I would take it to a good NSX mechanic and explain the history. Get a loaner because he ought to be spending several days at least, doing the fluids and valves and timing belt and water pump.
 
Take nsxtasy's advice.

Where is the crankcase vent routed on your BBSC install? If it is capped then you may be pushing oil out several places. I'm sure Mark would not install it that way so we'll assume not unless someone else has messed with it since then (to stop the messy oil srapy perhaps?). So it may be vented to a catch bottle somewhere, or just through a hose to beneath the car. Find it, and rout it to a bottle if it isn't already. (You can use something simple for temporary purposes like a "sport" water bottle as long as it’s away from the exhaust heat.) Zip-tie it someplace low and run the vent to it. I'm betting that's where much of your missing oil will land. If so, and it's as rapid as you say, then combustion pressure is getting past the rings (bad blow-by) and forcing oil out of the crankcase. If you see smoke even sometimes then you also probably have a degree of blow-by. The leak-down test will confirm that and the severity, but it will be rings, not valve guides or seals given your mileage. If that proves true, then you have likely run very rich for awhile and washed down the cylinders. Easy to do when tinkering with fuel management. Less dramatic than running to lean, but almost as deadly. Or it could be broken rings if detonation occurred. It can be hard to hear especially with windows open or the radio on. Or, if you’ve had a serious over heating experience that could cause it as well.

But as I said, take nsxtasy's advice. The trick is finding a competent and honest tech.

[This message has been edited by sjs (edited 06 October 2002).]
 
I plan on calling the Acura dealership that the company I work for owns tomorrow and arrange to have it brought it and serviced. I have only owned it for a little over a year now and haven't done anything other than oil changes.
I will look for the crankcase thing you were describing. I haven't, nor has anyone else, done anything to the engine since the install of the BBSC.
As for running rich, according to the test and tune I had done while in Atlanta dynoing it, if memory serves, I wasn't rich at all. They (Mikey) did change the fuel map on it under the watchful eye of Romeo and Charles and the owner/operator of Balanced Performance so now it is running a little richer than before.
Thank's for the concerns and helpful advice. I will post results upon receiving them.

------------------
ALL NSX
92 RED/BLACK 5-SPEED
 
92NSX, here are a few pointers to look for: Look under the oil cap and see if it has creamish whitish oil stuck up in there; That would indicate coolant in the engine.. HEADGASKET!. The crankcase ventilation hose that goes back into the intake should be covered with oil if oil is pasing through rings/valves.
as Nsxtasy suggested, do a compression test.

I had a similar problem on my Legend and a local mechanic told me that it was Ok for "some" oil to spray out of the PCV(crankcase ventilation) valve. I never went back there ever since. The V6 became that way bacause of detonation from a "ZEX" nos kit.
 
Originally posted by nsxxtreme:
Do a leak down test not a compression test. Big difference.
Click to expand...


Maurice, A leak down test is more important than compression, but you will need both in order to help diagnose this peoblem. Please talk to the service mgr when you drop the car off. Tell him you need very accurate leak down test numbers, and is there someone in the shop who has A LOT of experience doing this. A leak down test has the highest likelyhood of false readings than any other possible procedure. The position of the piston is PARAMOUNT, but so is the direction the piston was traveling when it got there. IOW, the piston must be at tdc on the compression stroke, and not 1 or 2 drgrees past or before it and NOT at tdc coming from the wrong direction. Make sure the person who does this test has PLENTY of engine experience, wether it is NSX, Legend, Integra, or Chevy. A leak down test is the same regardless of make, and this would be a really bad time to get an incompetant tech doing diagnostic work.

Smoking on first start up is classically valve guides, or valve guide seals, but shold continue to occur rather than having stopped.

Please get back to me with the test results as soon as you can.

MB
 
Well the price war is over.
Work to be done. Timing belt/water pump, adjust valves, coolant, tranny service, oil change, brake fluid change, plugs, belts, fuel filter.

Duval Acura $1408 including tax.
Coggin Acura $3000 + tax.

The reason Duval is so much cheaper is because I work for the company that owns them so I get employee discounts on parts and labor !!
I got a feeling that Coggin didn't really want to do the work since I started the conversation by telling them where I work. They know that we own the competing Acura dealer so I figured they would maybe cut me a break on the price...NOT !

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ALL NSX
92 RED/BLACK 5-SPEED
 
Originally posted by nsxxtreme:
Do a leak down test not a compression test. Big difference.
Click to expand...

Do BOTH. It will tell you where the oil is going. Nsxxtreme, why not a compression test? It will give you a lot of valuable info.

92 NSX, why are you doing all of that maintence all of the sudden? Your car might need it, and it's good to do, but nothing you listed there would have any effect on why you would be 'losing' almost a quart or 2 a week of oil. If your rings are bad it could be a major waste of money doing this now. Did I miss something? Did you figure out the problem...and just doing the maintenence now?


[This message has been edited by true (edited 07 October 2002).]
 
I think I'd worry about the oil consumption before the maintenance. You may end up being able to combine a lot of the labor when you repair the consumption problem if, as I fear, you have a serious blow-by problem.
 
The reason I'm doing the maintenance now is because the age of the vehicle dictates it even though the mileage(45K) doesn't.
More than anything else right now I do want to get the oil thing figured out. I figure just kill two birds with one stone and save some labor charges.
How long does it take to do the two tests. Since it has the BBSC installed, will that have to be removed for any of this?
Pardon my ignorance but I don't know and don't want to be taken advantage of.

------------------
ALL NSX
92 RED/BLACK 5-SPEED
 
I would have it done all at once, (a) so you can eliminate lack of scheduled maintenance as a source of any problems after that, and (b) so you're not driving around in a car that needs maintenance.

Sounds like you haven't learned your lesson: Do all the scheduled maintenance when it's due, or you'll be sorry.
 
In this situation what are you going to obtain from doing a compression test that a leak down won't tell you? If he is getting blow by the oil could act as a seal and give false compression readings. MB is the expert I would follow his advice.

If it is as feared I don't think doing the scheduled maintenace would have prevented this. It should still be done. I would just wait until you figure out what is wrong as other have suggested,and don't drive the car.


[This message has been edited by nsxxtreme (edited 08 October 2002).]
 
Originally posted by nsxtasy:
I would have it done all at once, (a) so you can eliminate lack of scheduled maintenance as a source of any problems after that, and (b) so you're not driving around in a car that needs maintenance.

Sounds like you haven't learned your lesson: Do all the scheduled maintenance when it's due, or you'll be sorry.
Click to expand...

With all due respect, I'd schedule all of it but have them do the leak-down and compression check first, then call with the diagnosis. If the engine needs to be torn down due to worn rings/cylinders then don't waste the $ on the other labor since it can all be done quicker with the engine out. Of course if you do have serious blow-by but decide not to fix it for awhile then I would go ahead with the scheduled maintenance. I'd also remove the BBSC because without boost your consumption would likely drop greatly.



[This message has been edited by sjs (edited 07 October 2002).]
 
92NSX
Listen to Lud. Get the high oil consumption problem out of the way first. Get the compression check and or the leak down test first. To make it very clear... the Compression check will tell you the mechanical condition of your upper end. i.e. (pistons,rings,valves,head gasket) If you do just the recommended maintenance without addressing the oil problem, you will be burning up money as fast as your NSX burns oil. No-pun intended.

Lets say you do have bad rings. The heads will be removed and the pistons taken out from the top end. But wait! You just paid for a 60k valve job, belt replacement, water pump, and oil pump? You want to avoid repetitive work to keep the cost down. Do the right thing man…do the right thing! Good luck.
 

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