LCD TV Technology, who's the leader now? Samsung, Pioneer Elite, or Sony XBR, etc?

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I've been out of the TV market game for a long time.

I actually still own a 32" Sony XBR tube TV from my college days working for a home audio company! haha

We are in the market for a 50" range TV and size is not the most important.

Just looking for something that has the latest technology and will last a long time. Is 1080p and 120hz the best? We don't really need 3D nor do I ever liked watching movies in that format so that is not a feature I need.

LED vs LCD?

Smart TV a must have? or a just a fad?

I walked through Costco and have been looking online but pricing seems to be all over the place with some places offering rebate incentives. Is Best Buy still the best play to buy or online?

I have pretty good quality audio stuff from Martin Logan, Krell, Denon, Definitive, etc so just need a quality TV to keep up :)

I know back when I was working at the place, Pioneer Elite was one of the best and they were just introducing HDTV so that gives you an idea of how old I was back then!
 
Do yourself a favor and forget all the fancy stuff, buy a Panasonic plasma and not an LCD or LED (Elite is gone), and get the set professionally calibrated by an ISF tech for $300. Then forget all the smart features, don't spend a dime. Get a $100 apple TV, attach it and you have all your internet functionaity and you are done. You are looking at under $1000 for it all. Hook up your sound system and it will be great. Consider a 60", they are cheap and not that much bigger physically these days.
 
I will expand on this more later, but:

If you want an LED TV, I would go with a high-end Panasonic or Sony. I currently own an LG LM7600, and have to warn you to stay away from LG at all costs for now. Samsung might be a different story, but if I could re-do my purchase it would be panny or sony.

Make sure you know the diff b/t native refresh and the marketed "CMR" "TruMotion" "blacklight scanning." A 120Hz native refresh rate should be fine for most viewing, and a 240 CMR/TruMotion or higher is preferable. You don't want a 120Hz CMR or TruMotion because the native refresh will be 60Hz, and will be poor for action scenes (sports) or camera panning. LG has terrible software on their sets now, so again, avoid them at all costs.

I would go with a native refresh minimum of 120Hz, and aim for 360 or higher with the marketed refresh. a 240Hz native with a 960 marketed would be ideal.

I owned a Panasonic ET5 IPS panel, and was very impressed with it. Their higher end stuff is very highly rated.

Smart features are not a fad, nor is 3D. You don't know what you are missing until you own one of these sets:

1. once you get a true 3D source (side-by-side pics) and watch a 3D movie, you will be forever converted. The 3D quality on a legit TV like the panny or sony rivals, or surpasses, that of IMAX movies. It's really amazing. You won't be disappointed.

2. While I don't use most of the smart features on my TV, there are a few that are indispensable. If you use Netflix, you NEED a TV that has a netflix app. Or if you you amazon, or any other content delivery service, you need a smart TV. If you use none of these, you will want a TV that can stream from your computer to your TV. Wirelessly is best. Downloading content (legally of course :) ) and then being able to select it on your smart TV without connecting a USB or cable is priceless. You cannot go back after getting used to it. The web browser, etc. is useless imo, as are many of the gimmicky apps.

If you have the money to spend on a professional calibration, I guess...why not. But I personally never liked the settings they use as they are almost always too dark. I don't understand why you would pay $300 when you are trying to find what looks the best to YOU personally. You can always go online and copy others' professionally calibrated settings too. I tried it, and the settings always look terrible to me.

I don't have experience with plasma TVs, but supposedly they don't suffer from any motion blur/jutter problems. But they have their own set of issues (burn-in, etc).

LEDs also save a LOT of power. I think the sticker on my set lists $12 in electricity for the entire year. This will be offset by any DVR however, but still better than a hungry TV + DVR.

SlickDeals has good TV deals, but you need to go for the higher-end stuff. Too bad Amazon is charging for tax now. Frys occasionally has good deals, and Amazon may price-match them.

Costco doesn't have good deals, but the return policy can't be beat.

4K tech is coming out, so the current tech will be outdated soon.
 
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OMG KSX there is so much misinformation on your post I don't really know where to start.... :)
 
If you have a different opinion, that is a different matter. :) But there isn't any misinformation there. Probably some opinions that you don't find agreeable, none of which I can imagine your finding "misinformation" besides the calibration issue.

Like I said, you can spend $300 on calibration if you want. It sounds ridiculous and absurd to me personally. That's $300 you could have put into a TV set, but you instead took it out of the TV and into the pocket of a guy that comes and tinkers with some of your set's settings. Yes, every set will be different, even if you copy someone else's settings, but how much are you getting out of those nuances? It's not like uncalibrated sets (or unprofessionally calibrated ones) look bad. Some people just like to think they are getting someone exceptional when it's more just a fine tuning.

I've seen professionally calibrated sets, and the settings are always DARK. I am not saying this is universally true, but that's just my PERSONAL experience. Look up all the "professionally calibrated" settings on AVS forums and you will find the same.

To OP:

As for avoiding smart features and going Apple TV, if Apple TV gives you netflix or whatever else you need then yeah, go for it. As long as you are getting what you need. But you cannot go back and add 3D to a non-3D set. I didn't imagine I would use 3D at all, and I shopped for sets without 3D to save money. I ended up with the ET5 for a while (which had 3D) and was blown away by the quality of the 3D picture. Once you get good 3D source files, you will enjoy 3D a lot more. It's true that I don't use it as often as regular TV, but it is still nice to have it. Every movie I have watched is better in 3D on my TV. I thought it would be gimmicky, and the quality wouldn't be theater-grade, but it is really good. I would stick with the passive glasses technology (the ones that don't need battery operated active shutter glasses).

To expand on the refresh rate, all the companies out there are using a marketed refresh rate. LG calls it "TruMotion" and appends "Hz" after the number (which makes it VERY misleading since that sounds more like the native refresh rate). Samsung calls it "Clear Motion Rate" or ("CMR"). Panasonic calls it "Backlight Scanning". None of these are the actual refresh rate. When you see a 120Hz TruMotion LG, you think you are getting a 120Hz panel, but it will actually be 60Hz. There have been arguments over even the 240 TruMotion sets being 60Hz. I believe it after owning several LG panels.

The marketed rates are a result of an algorithm which flashes different portions of the panel at a high frequency (undetectable to the human eye) to give a perceived "smoothing" of the picture. This is supposed to reduce perceived motion blur and jutter in the picture. LG's algorithm just happens to be atrocious, and didn't even include some basic advertised features until 6 months later with a software update. Even with my 240 TruMotion LG, I still get Motion Blur, Jutter, and a weird effect with grids like Chain-linked fences. I believe LG was, or is, the sponsor of F1. I find this laughable as it is painful to watch F1 on this set (which is supposed to be mid-high end).

The Panasonic E50 and ET5 (ET5 has 3D, but I think the two are otherwise the same) had 360 backlight scanning, and were awesome IPS panels. The wireless sharing features weren't as abundant as LG's unit, so if you do a lot of streaming over wifi I don't recommend it. But no problems with flashlighting or grids (all my LGs had hotspots of flashlighting). If you are a macrumors fan, you know that all the display problems on the retina macbook pros (image retention, similar grid problem) are linked to LG screens.

In conclusion, I would stick with a minimum 120Hz native refresh, with the higher the marketed rate the better. You can turn off the deblur and dejutter settings so you don't get the soap opera effect, but you can't change the native refresh rate of a TV. Wireless/smart features are up to you, as is 3D.

If you want plasma, ask the other guy. I have no experience with them, but have heard they have their own issues like image burn-in. (other guy: again, not saying they all have this problem, just something I have heard).

To answer OPs question, 120Hz is not the "best" but a good starting point. I believe the highest end TVs have 360 Hz native refresh rates, with the algorithm-achieved rates of over 1000. I have no idea what those would look like, but I imagine very smooth.

For recommendations:

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_...x850-early-candidate-for-best-lcd-tv-of-2012/

I believe it was the HX850 I saw in the Sony Store (can't be sure since it was so long ago) but I was blown away by the PQ. Really beautiful stuff, but it could have just been the quality of the source Sony was using too. Either way, check it out.

I can vouch for the Panasonic E50 and ET5, and can only imagine the high end stuff being fantastic.
 
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He's right about LG software/interface sucking. Samsung is definitely better than LG if I were to make a broad statement. Sharp and Sony are still good TV makers in Japan.
 
Personally I'm inclined to agree with Turbo2go. I still believe plasma is the way to go for not only its picture quality but also the price point relative to the other micodisplay technologies. Two years ago I purchased a 50" Samsung 6500 series Plasma without 3D. I had no choice regarding the apps and I've never used them for I have a PS3. I used calibration settings posted by a guy who paid for it. Still very happy with my set. Only way I'd replace it is if I went bigger :)
 
Hi,

agree with Dave... plasma is the way to go...

i managed to get me one of the last Pioneer Kuro 50" (5090H) and can't find anything better, even with today
specs..

With Pioneer out of the scene, the top of the game is Panasonic... my mother grabbed my 42" one when i upgraded
to the Pioneer.

What made me love the Plasma over LCD/LED ??? a side by side comparison of a Panasonic Plasma vs Samsung LED,
both playing the same Samsung LCD demo.

Conclusions from that side by side comparison:
- Digital images like Toy Story, Ice Age, etc are marginally better on the LCD
- Films are off the scale better on the Plasma.
- LCD/LED don't really show minor differences in an image with tones of the same color
(this was extremely visible watching Lord of The Rings and a snow scene video in the side by side comp)

IMHO.

Thanks,
Nuno
 
I went with panasonic plasma also. The picture is much better IMO. I have the GT level so it's the middle of their range. Not sure what it is now.

Sounds like Panasonic might be getting out of the plasma game. Very sad.
 
I really don't want to type up a novel and explain everything that needs to be explained technically.

KSX, this is what I do for a living. It's what I have done for the past 20 years, full time. The guy I work with every day, wrote the books that reviewers like cnet and any other magazines use in order to judge TV's by. He is an advisor to Samsung and when manufacturers have shows, they call HIM to set things up. I have done installations all over the country, and some of my work has been featured in magazines. A lot of my clients are well known, I can't post their names publicly but you see them on TV often. I'm just trying to tell you I am a qualified person, not someone just on the AVS forums spouting off half-baked opinions. There is a TON of that there.

You and I are friends and i value you a lot on this forum and so please understand anything I say, I want to say without your feeling I am attacking you in any way. I am just speaking matter of fact like.

Your opinions on calibration are just not correct. You aren't understanding it fully. In order to have a proper picture, the entire chain from the camera to production to transmission to the display have to follow a set of rules and protocol. If everyone was to do their own thing within a standard, you'd have the biggest clusterfrigg of picture you've ever seen. Typically the weak link is often the display, where many manufactures decide that looking "brighter" and therefor not "dark" as you call it is a better path to more sales... And so they disregard any any all standards and create something that is completely inaccurate. I cannot disagree more with the premise that a professional calibration (which is done on EVERY TV before ANY REVIEW you read on that TV) is a waste of money, and that you are better off spending that money on the TV. which generally wind up being a lot of features that my calibrators turn off anyway.

Your motion artifact point is legitimate, but it simply does not apply to the recommendation I am making to rick, which is that he just buy a plasma.

The biggest point is, we talk refresh rates and motion artifacts and resolutions til we are blue in the face, but they have very little with actual picture quality, which is based on parameters that cannot be used at marketing jargon like "240Hz 1080p".

I find most of those Internet features people pay a lot for on their "smart TV" to be frivolous, and that is why I recommended the appleTV for $100. There are other issues you need to consider. To access most of those features, you will need to use the TV as the preamp and switcher of video sources, and not your receiver. Otherwise you have this screwy maze for operation where you have to use the TV as a "source" on your receiver, do your smart TV features, then go back out and switch sources on the receiver to a bluray or appletv or cable box.... It is virtually unusable and I would never set things up that way for a client. If you do use the TV as the distribution source, you are limited to using its audio out. Which is generally a PCM signal off of an optical audio out. Most TV's don't have built in DAC's so analog sources get nothing for an output. Some of the built-in smart features have other issues. Trust me, I have to integrate this shit on a daily basis and it is an absolute nightmare.

This is why I was shot and said "get a Panasonic plasma, a calibration, an appleTV, an stop wasting your money. Get a bigger size instead".

- - - Updated - - -

A couple of things I forgot to address: you cannot just "plug in" numbers and call a TV and call it calibrated. Although I myself have tried to help guys on this forum by telling the what to set their TV's to, that is FAR from a correct calibration which takes into account things like those particular pieces of gear, the types of inputs used, and room lighting. A proper calibration will change if you even move the TV room to room. Panasonic calibrations (amongst some others) often require getting into a deeper service menu, whose codes I would never share with the average person as they can go in and basically destroy their TV. so people think that contrast at 82 and color at 55 will work and they put that on the Internet and call that a calibration.

There are also a number of unqualified people that do calibrations, thanks to Joel Silver and his ISF clasess and certifications. The guy I rely on the most is Joe Kane. The author of video essentials.

And the plasma burn-in issue has long been resolved. If glare is a real issue I may switch to a particular LED, but if they sit to the side at all.... Most LCD TV's are one TV looking at it straight.... And a different TV from an angle.... The image changes so much it's like you just calibrated the set in a different room. LOL...
 
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HOLY COW ~ I'm still trying to comprehend everything you guys said! I told my wife ask a bunch of car guys is the best way to get caught up on the latest technology and advice. Thank you all for taking the time to give me your thoughts.

It's sad to hear Pioneer Elite is gone....used to think LG was good but after this post I know better :)

Turbo: May I ask what your job is since I used to be involved in the industry on the sales side for home audio and love this type of stuff almost as much as cars. I'm more on the audiophile side and I know movies and audio are two different worlds in terms of equipment.

I'm going to print this stuff out and go to Best Buy later to check out some plasma's from Samsung. I always knew Samsung was good but never thought Panasonic was at the top as well. Always thought Toshiba > Panasonic!

Good thing for me with your advice is that plasma is cheaper than LED/LCD right? :)


thanks again guys!


EDIT: I was looking at this one: Samsung PN51E8000 51-Inch 1080p 600Hz Ultra Slim Plasma 3D HDTV

The reviews seems to say great things on the picture but not so hot on some other issues, have you guys heard about these problems?

1.0 out of 5 stars Sub-screen spider craking , hundreds complaints on same issue but Samsung Poor quality and support May 10, 2012
By Raj
Size Name:60-inches
TV developed sub-screen spider cracks and suddenly died , Samsung's own tech noted ,"No External damage to screen" . Even after hundreds of complaints by honest consumers , Samsung won't take responsibility for their $3000 worth of poor consumer product. They know Thermal Expansin issues are causing their plasmas to premature failure, but they won' t admit, because they sell millions of units. It is not acceptable. Consumers Please Beware, no quality or consumer support here with samsung. Good luck shopping.
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20 of 21 people found the following review helpful
5.0 out of 5 stars Best TV I have ever seen April 3, 2012
By Knoxman
Size Name:60-inches
First, let me say that last year I bought the Samsung D8000 and Panasonic VT30 and returned them because I was not completely satisfied. The D8000 had an extremely loud, constant buzz that was too loud to be able to be ignored. It also had significant problems with "brightness pops". Otherwise, it had incredible color and picture. After I returned the Samsung, I went with all the recommendations and went with the Panasonic VT30. I was supremely disappointed with the Panasonic. I never felt that it had an amazing or even impressive picture. It was completely lack luster to me. The color on the Panasonic was also below average (significantly worse than my three year old Samsung $600 720p plasma). The E8000 is the most amazing TV I have ever seen. The color and definition on the E8000 are amazing. The features are awesome. It appears that the 3D is better than the D8000 as well (much less ghosting). It does still have a small buzz to it but it is no where near as loud as the D8000 and is not annoyingly noticeable. I have not seen any problems with brightness pops yet/either. In summary, I highly recommend this TV!
 
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LED vs LCD?

To clarify, all "LED TVs" have LCD panels. The difference is that "LED TVs" use LEDs to light the panel whereas the older standard LCD panels use CCFL backlighting. So if the choice is between those two, then of course, go LED.

There is quite some debate here between Plasma and LED LCD. I think that choice should be up to you when you go into the store and compare the differences between the two. I don't know much about Plasmas, but faced a similar decision and eventually went with an LED. I believe the pros of the plasmas are that generally they will have deeper blacks and generally don't have a motion blur/jutter problem. They are also much cheaper these days being the older of the two technologies. The cons, i have read, are a problem with "burn in." You should google it and do some research. I don't know much about it, except that the problem exists for SOME people (geez plasma guys, is it necessary to launch a war? lol).

Now, if you do go LED, you should know the difference between edge-lit and full LED backlit. edge lit means there are LEDs around the periphery of the panel, and there is a diffuser that scatters the light everywhere else. It's the cheaper way to go. A full-LED arrangement is the best, but only used on the highest end for each brand, and is much more expensive. Many LEDs will also have "backlight dimming" which means that the panel can dim individual or groups of LEDs locally to create darker blacks. I have an LED with backlight dimming, and I can't imagine a plasma having darker blacks than this.

My last advice is: don't listen to me, and don't listen to the other guys here. I don't even advocate LED, but some guys are pushing hard for plasma. What you should do is try to erase what you have seen here (a handful of people recommending plasma and not many recommending LED) and go into a showroom and compare the two for yourself. Get what looks best for you. And yes, plasma should be cheaper. :)

Either way, enjoy your new TV! What should be a fun process has certainly now been complicated by a lot of nerding out. lol.
 
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TURBO2GO, off topic question for you. At what point is a Projector a better option than a TV? I'm wanting to go with a 70"-80" TV in our new basement, but we have a wall of windows, so it's very bright down there. Would the TV be the best choice?
 
Going into a store and looking at bunch of miscalibrated sets with their settings being what the salesman or the last customer decided to set to, is not a good way to choose a TV. The reason you should look in a store is to see the form factor, the features, the size, the thinness or thickness, ask about the warranty, their price, etc.

Basically everything that doesn't have to do with a picture.

The burn-in issue that KSX is referring to has largely been resolved. I don't recommend you leave a static image on a plasma for months on end, but most plasmas have technologies now that deal with that issue. For 99% of home users, this is a non-issue in 2013. It was an issue 6 years ago.

My personal experience through many hundreds of TV installations is that Samsung is actually not the most reliable. They have suffered from a number of issues in the past few years and I have replaced quite a few sets. Not saying they are all bad, it depends on the model but Samsung has refused to acknowledge many of them and left customers holding the bag. LG has had some issues too but they have been much better at taking responsibility and from a dealer standpoint, they have been pretty good. In fact, I like LG quite a bit now. Their sets look good, calibrate well, and are priced very well. They have made huge strides. I would not rule out the brand if I were you. A year or so ago consumer reports did a lot of testing on a ton of TV's, say what you will about consumer reports but they do some things well even if they miss a thing or two here or there. LG dd phenomenal on many of their tests. Specifically several of their sets were top rated models.

The gap between super high end TV's and normal TV's has closed significantly. Even a properly calibrated cheap set these days looks better than high end sets of a few years ago. I am hesitant to recommend you spend a lot of money on this, because you are not getting that much in return. And the technology is changing fast. Do you really want to buy the super duper computer? When it will be "slow" compared to an average computer in a year? Same kind of goes for TV's.

I stick by my recommendation of Panasonic plasma. The brand I really don't like, is Sharp and the off brands. Some of these sets just cannot calibrate correctly no matter what you do. You fix one thing and another goes out of whack. Sharp has improved but still has some issues on almost every model.

Regarding 3D: it's a $5 chip. Almost every TV has it now anyway. So no point in really talking about it but 90% of my customers think its cool for the first day or two and then they neve use it again. You have to be into it. The whole glasses thing is a PITA for most people. They just don't like walking around with these glasses on. And they are too big for kids, the ones that seem to enjoy it the most. Kids also break them all the time. In short, 3D gets little use from what I see.

My work since you asked is I have done custom AV installation since 1990. We build custom home theaters, do home automation, sound systems, stuff like that. I have posted photos of my work before in a thread.

Here is a copy and paste of one of my posts:



Here are a few photos I took recently of some of our jobs. We do a lot of custom stuff, sort of reminds me of the old car stereo days sometimes. Here is a custom speaker we built 7 of for a theater. These cost about $35,000. The tweeters are ribbon, the woofers are 10" european drivers made by PHL. The cabinet is 2" of heavily braced MDF. The damping material in the cabinet is something called Black Hole 5, it is a 5 layer material. It's not cheap. The crossovers are all electronic, system is tuned and EQ'ed after it is installed. They are about 6 feet tall.


custom_spk.jpg


Here is a custom subwoofer of a similar design. This is a 9.5 cubic foot cabinet with 3" thick MDF, and its internally braced by metal rods. The driver is a TAD 18". This sub is -3db at around 8 Hz. We had 2 of these in a theater with about 2600 watts going to them.

KB242.jpg


Here is the back of a rack wired neatly. Its hard to tell in this picture but everything is well organized, every wire is has a label on heat shrink tubing around it. This was in the finishing stages, the final product is even cleaner. To the right is cable, telephone, and internet distribution modules covered by a glass panel. That is to keep the cable and telephone service guys away. They see that and they realize they can't handle it and they call us instead, which is what we want.

rackback-1.jpg


This is a wood fireplace mantle holding a custom painted grille on a Focal center channel speaker. No one notices there is a speaker there:


KB196.jpg



Here is a typical equipment rack. All this stuff runs on 20 amp circuits, it is all thermal controlled, and there is battery backup on all the sensitive equipment. We can remotely control a lot of this from the office. If the client wants to change light scene settings or security system settings, we can do it for them without going there. We just confirm changes over the phone. It's pretty neat.

Rack1.jpg


Here is a shot of the room acoustic analysis equipment. We use this data to then tune the electronic EQ's for the rooms. This particular one is JBL SMAART pro.

Analyze1.jpg


Here is a Crestron touchscreen on the wall. On this you can control security, temperature, set whole house lighting scenes, control music, talk to any other room, all rooms, or front door, see any security camera or watch the cameras. You can also make phone calls with the speaker being either through the screen or the ceiling speakers in the room. It keeps a log of all calls. We usually setup scenes so that onbe button press does a whole host of things. Once you get used to it, you never want to go back to the ordinary. The larger model has a fingerprint reader. So each of your nine fingers can activate any number of scenes. Sometimes we setup different GUI's for the husband and wife, using their fingerprints. So they essentialy have different looking panels.

TPS6.jpg


Another custom subwoofer for a room finished in oak with the grille off. This is another 18" driver in a 6.5 cubic foot cabinet. This was a multi-purpose room. Family room and theater with a 110" screen that drops in front of a plasma.

KB140.jpg


And here is a picture of a 17 seat theater with a 1950's theme. The fiber optic sky changes colors, day and night modes, etc. There is a ton of motorization in this theater including a custom 200 pound center channel that comes out of the floor, motorized black out shades (the windows look out into the ocean), motorized 120" screen, motorized curtains and valence). When you hit "on", the room transforms. All seats are motorized and have heat and massage, they also each have a tactile transducer built-in that shakes the seat. The main "money" seats sometimes get actual motion that is encoded into a computer for that particular movie. The seats actually move up, down, left, right, back and forth. Its intense. Some of these projects wind up costing over 1 million.

theater1.jpg


Pardon the photography, I did this with my own camera and I am not very good.

I can post more pics if you guys want.
 
http://slickdeals.net/deals/tv/

Good deals here. I found a deal for my LG through here, got it price-matched at Amazon before they started charging CA sales tax, combined it with an Amazon deal for a bundle with 3D glasses and a Blu-Ray player. Still cheaper than what they are selling for new now for the whole bundle.
 
For those who might give a crap about my opinion: An LED back-lit LCD is preferable to a plasma. Plasma's often have highly-reflective glass faces which are a pain in a room with windows. Plasmas can "burn" an image in. Samsung, Panasonic and Sharp are good brands.
If you want to do TV right these days, do a front projector. You can get a great front projector for under $3k and a good screen will set you back under $1K. However, to do a projector right you need a room that can be made completely dark.
I'm happy to talk more -- private me.
 
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Do yourself a favor and forget all the fancy stuff, buy a Panasonic plasma and not an LCD or LED (Elite is gone), and get the set professionally calibrated by an ISF tech for $300. Then forget all the smart features, don't spend a dime. Get a $100 apple TV, attach it and you have all your internet functionaity and you are done. You are looking at under $1000 for it all. Hook up your sound system and it will be great. Consider a 60", they are cheap and not that much bigger physically these days.

Quick chime-in to agree with Turbo on this one 100%. For best image quality in a reasonably light controlled room without direct sunlight, Plasma is the way to go.

For a bright, sunlit room or outdoors, LED has to be the choice simply for it's insane brightness. Too much glare onto most plasma screens for that. Here in SoCal we do a ton of beach front property with glass walls facing the ocean. LED is not the best option, it is the ONLY option. Less glare and bright as hell, gets the job done. Yes, they have shades on all windows. Do you think they will close those shades and lose the view? Haha.... put up that LED. Didn't pay 8 mil for that view just to cover it whenever they want to watch TV during the day. ;o
 
I'm glad I went with a smaller TV...... SAID NO ONE EVER! Regardless of what type of TV or brand you go with, if it comes down to going smaller and saving a few bucks or going larger and stretching your budget, always go bigger. You'll never regret it, although I know a ton of people who regret going smaller.
 
There you go rick, you have two professionals telling you the same thing. I agree if you are doing an installation in a compromised situation where there are adjacent windows glare can be an issue. But anything short of that.... I can't begin to stress to you how important proper black levels are on the quality of an image. It literally is the base that all other parameters feed off of. Plasma has a big advantage there. If you watch sports on a properly calibrated plasma the picture is spot on. You will have to spend double that on an LED to get something.... Close. And as I said, if there are seats off axis, again the plasma set has an advantage. The reds on Panasonic is closer to reference standard than on other sets. I'd have to see a lot of glare before I'd be willing to give up a calibrated panny plasma. Ilya is in sunny CA and I am in drab New England. His windows are 8 feet high and mine are generally rat holes... Can't believe I live here.... where I can't drive my NSX... and girls say "hada"... LOL... ok I digress.

60" Panasonic plasma, calibration, appleTV. Unless you want a new theater and want to hire me. We can do a projector like sfnsxguy recommends but $1000 will get you my front speaker wires. :D

- - - Updated - - -

I'm glad I went with a smaller TV...... SAID NO ONE EVER! Regardless of what type of TV or brand you go with, if it comes down to going smaller and saving a few bucks or going larger and stretching your budget, always go bigger. You'll never regret it, although I know a ton of people who regret going smaller.

This is true, anything up to 60" is so slim and cheap these days why wouldn't you. Don't listen to the wife. Once you go over 60 and especially over 65 price jumps way up and frankly, no one makes great sets. I installed an 80" sharp recently.... I feel guilty about it. It was a commercial project so not so bad.
 
FYI, my experience with Samsung is my $3000 LCD tv had a problem with how it was made. Well documented by many with the same problem. My tv was about useless in 3 years and they wouldn't do a damn thing. No more Samsung for me. Ever.

The only reason I would go led over plasma is if there was a ton of light and reflections in the room.

Dave, what panny are you talking about that's under $1000? My 55" was $1500 and 65 was closer to $3000.

As for 3d. I love it for movies. That's the only time I use it.
 
Dave key word "was". I haven't checked my cost lately but I know they are down. I had a deal where I bought 20 LG 60" plasmas for $650 each. They were all sold in like a week. As I said samsung has had several issues lately which should have been handled under warranty. They chose not to. I had so many fail all within a 2 month period. Like I would see the customers name on caller ID and I would know what's up. Guess who ate the cost of a lot of those.

Anyway I was thinking my cost and not retail so yeah it may land between 1000-1500 on a 60. I just don't have it all in memory. TV's are a pain for me.
 
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The local Costco has a 55" Panasonic Plasma for under $1000. But I agree with Dave regarding "calibration" as the colors from one set to another displayed were quite dramatic and I am sure with adjustment they can be closer.
 
there are many experts on this thread,but from my experience and for newbs to tv tech..plasmas are heavy and draw much more power than the led..but for us they are the choice..our toshibas have been working well for 6 years and counting.We have one at 50 inch that is now strictly a wii monitor and it looks and plays just fine.On our sets there is some ghosting on the black screen so called burn in but once the picture is on I don't notice any degredation in the pic.
 
there are many experts on this thread,but from my experience and for newbs to tv tech..plasmas are heavy and draw much more power than the led..but for us they are the choice..our toshibas have been working well for 6 years and counting.We have one at 50 inch that is now strictly a wii monitor and it looks and plays just fine.On our sets there is some ghosting on the black screen so called burn in but once the picture is on I don't notice any degredation in the pic.

Plasmas are no longer really heavier, or thicker, nor do they burn in like they used to. All these "issues" have really gone away. When you turn a set off, it is normal to see a ghost for minutes on the black screen. That is often mistaken for "burn-in", it actually is not.
 
Plasmas are no longer really heavier, or thicker, nor do they burn in like they used to. All these "issues" have really gone away. When you turn a set off, it is normal to see a ghost for minutes on the black screen. That is often mistaken for "burn-in", it actually is not.

I'm starting to get the feeling you like plasmas...
 
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