KWV3 Installation Woes

[Tai]

Apologies for the dreary subject, but I wanted to share my experience in case anyone else finds themselves with this issue. I am also seeking advice.

I purchased a new set of KWV3's last year as they have plentiful accolades from respectable resources. I had my suspension/wheel/tire/break specialist in Fremont, CA, install them for me followed by an alignment. He mentioned as he was wrapping up, to check my "eccentric bolt shaft". I drove home and the car seemed ok, but the next time I drove the car (a few days later) I noticed a 'pogo stick' like squeak, which was pretty awful. I didn't notice it before as I didn't notice it on the highway, but on town roads it's unbearable. I contacted my installer, and he suggested I spray some WD40 into places he did not describe. He did invite me to return, but as his shop is a 2 hour drive for me I did not go back immediately as the car is a monthly weekend warrior and I figured it could wait. Fast forward a few months after not driving the car for a while and a noticeable temperature drop (December 2015) I noticed an audible "clunk" sound from the right rear as I turned right at low speeds. I also noticed a mild vibration from the steering wheel at highway speeds. I suspected my cv boot could have been on its way out, but I wasn't sure. One week later, I drove the car again, this time I accelerated onto the freeway, and the rear of the car began to sway aggressively in a circular motion, and the car instantly felt like it was going to spin out of control. This freaked me out enough that I slowed way down and drove the remainder of the short drive home under 30mph. After reading up on prime, I checked my wheel hubs and axle bolt, and didn't discover any issues.

I had her towed to my normal NSX mechanic in Daly city, and he diagnosed the rear instability to an eccentric bolt that was attached upside down, became stripped, and popped off. The rear right wheel lost its alignment, hence the scary instability. He also said the entire cars alignment was way off. He put on a new bolt with deeper threads, realigned my car, and it seems ok for the moment.

He also said that the squeaking was attributed to "smaller" rubber bushings that did not fit the factory top hats. I thought the KWV3's could be used with the factory top hats and bushings, unless I'm missing something, but he said that the coilovers were also a smaller diameter than oem, and wasn't sure if they could work with factory bushings.

My questions at the moment are:

- Should I contact my suspension installer and see if he's willing to compensate me for the diagnostic fee and repair of the upside down bolt that appears to be his error? I didn't tow the car to Fremont as he's 2 hours away and I would have had to figure out how to get back home, that and I trust my normal mechanic. (I figured it could have been much worse had it broken suddenly while I was accelerating around a corner)

- What should I do about the horrible pogo stick squeaking of the smaller bushings? Are the factory bushings in fact reusable with the KW's, and if so, should I ask my suspension mechanic to reinstall the system with the factory bushings that he probably threw away, and mucked up to begin with?

Thanks to any in advance.

 

[Jinks]

Are you sure the top hat shock nut is tight? The one at the very top of the oem mount. As sometimes they look visually tight sitting still, when you hit bumps they move around if loose. Easy check, my CB coil overs did this after I installed them.
You would think they leave the factory tight but sometimes it happens I guess.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, the KW reuse the top oem rubber bushing. If these were changed out with something else, I assume that is the issue right there.

 

[03 raw nsx]

I installed my KW's about 2 years ago. They are great, but not as quiet as the OEM.
I get a bumping noise for a couple of miles after driving, then it quiets down.
They are installed with OEM top hats (even the rubber bushing). I had Jonathan @ Trackspec double check the work that was done so I'm confident that they are secure

But I'm not confident that the KW's are the best. I did have one of the shocks leak upon installation..and it was the worst nightmare getting it warrantied!

 

[solidol]

I suggest you look at iLift top hats for kw.

 

[scammy]

I suggest you look at iLift top hats for kw.

Mine squeaked until I installed these

 

[Tai]

Thanks for the recommendations. Is it possible that older or worn out bushings cause the squeaking? If that's the case then can one just replace the oem bushings with a new set?

Also iLift website appears to be down, I might have to reach out to him here.

 

[scammy]

I installed brand new OEM top hats with my KW's and they squeaked so I installed ilift's ones to try them out and they havent really squeaked since maybe once slightly on a very cold day

 

[solidol]

Thanks for the recommendations. Is it possible that older or worn out bushings cause the squeaking? If that's the case then can one just replace the oem bushings with a new set?

Also iLift website appears to be down, I might have to reach out to him here.

Message him on prime to order a set. New OEM won't fix the issue.

 

[flexthatdx]

Sounds like a poor installation. I would have someone else more knowledgeable to look at the installation

 

[iLiftSystems]

I installed brand new OEM top hats with my KW's and they squeaked so I installed ilift's ones to try them out and they havent really squeaked since maybe once slightly on a very cold day

We engineered and designed custom high performance urethane bushings for the OEM top mounts. They are stronger and more solid than the OEM rubber bushings that get hard with age. The iLIFT® bushing set was also designed to be stronger and to support the weight of the vehicle in case you want to use the OEM top mounts with the iLIFT® intelligent suspension lift system.

 

[stuntman]

Technically the upper bushing does not really support the weight of the vehicle, because they are not in-between the spring and the chassis. They're a bushing for the damper and the damping forces.

Either way, great product.

 

[scammy]

Either way, great product.

yep great product highly recommend them

 

[iLiftSystems]

Technically the upper bushing does not really support the weight of the vehicle, because they are not in-between the spring and the chassis. They're a bushing for the damper and the damping forces.

Either way, great product.

You are correct that the OEM configuration does not support the weight of the vehicle through the bushings. The spring is supported by the top mount through rubber isolation on the top mount. However in the use of an iLIFT® intelligent suspension lift system the spring weight is supported by the bushings which our iLIFT® bushing set is designed for.

See our video below which shows KW V3s installed. In this case we are using iLIFT® Top mounts however it utilizes similar urethane bushings to what we offer for the OEM top mounts. In the video you can see that the weight is supported through the urethane bushings and not the outside of the top mounts.

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Thanks for the recommendations. Is it possible that older or worn out bushings cause the squeaking? If that's the case then can one just replace the oem bushings with a new set?

Also iLift website appears to be down, I might have to reach out to him here.

We have had interest in our iLIFT® technology by automotive industry companies who might want to introduce the iLIFT® system on their offerings in the future. That's the reason we took our pricing and storefront from our website.
We are still accepting orders from the NSX community.
You may email us at: [email protected].... or call us at 559-464-5438.

Steven Lee
Manager
Stealth Innovative Systems, LLC

 

[stuntman]

How is the spring weight supported by the damper bushing in the iLift? From your thread I don't see how it's any different where the weight of the car is supported through the spring and top hat which bolts to the chassis (even through the iLift) while the top bushing is only in contact with the damper and damping forces.

Amazing video. I've never seen something so professional for the NSX market.

 

[iLiftSystems]

How is the spring weight supported by the damper bushing in the iLift? From your thread I don't see how it's any different where the weight of the car is supported through the spring and top hat which bolts to the chassis (even through the iLift) while the top bushing is only in contact with the damper and damping forces.

Amazing video. I've never seen something so professional for the NSX market.

Stuntman,

Thanks for your compliments on the video.
Every component in the iLIFT® system developed with the same attention to detail and thought as this video.

The video shows the iLIFT® top mount with bushing and the iLIFT® actuator at 1.12 minutes into the video, but you have to look for it to see it.

Here's an explanation of the iLIFT® OEM replacement bushings and how they are different (better):

The custom iLIFT® urethane top mount bushings are designed to support the weight of the vehicle. They are engineered to work similar to a pillow ball mount as used on many aftermarket top mounts. With the typical pillow ball style top mounts, there is typically a flange or washer at the bottom of the pillow ball and the top spring perch is located under this flange/washer. The benefit of this arrangement is that the spring's top mount is allowed to pivot along with the shock rod in the pillow ball.
The problems with using pillow balls in top mounts include:
- They are a metal to metal designs and this transfers more noise and harshness to the chassis.
- The metal ball and metal race wear in time and become loose, causing noise and undesirable slop.

We designed (with the help of engineers specializing in urethane suspension components) custom urethane bushings that act similar to pillow ball mounts but don't have the harshness, noise, wear issues and limited life of the pillow balls that are frequently used.
The iLIFT® bushings were designed initially for use with the iLIFT® system in our custom, light weight, aluminum top mounts which cost $350 for a set (as seen in the video). They performed so well that we decided to develop custom urethane replacement bushings specifically for the NSX OEM top hats as a cost effective upgrade for NSX owners using OEM top hats. They are are designed to be sturdier than the OEM rubber bushings that age and harden over time. Urethane bushings will not age and harden as does the OEM rubber.

The OEM rubber bushings have concave (hollow) undersides which makes them softer and less suitable for supporting the weight of the vehicle. The iLIFT® replacement bushings are solid and more rigid and stronger than the OEM rubber bushings. They are designed support the weight of the vehicle if a customer desires to use them with an iLIFT® system. At $80 for the complete set, they offer improved performance over the OEM rubber bushings and many of the benefits of pillow balls but with none of the issues associated with pillow balls.

Steven Lee
Manager

Stealth Innovative Systems, LLC
email: [email protected]
Ph. 559-464-5438

 

[stuntman]

Is there a separate urethane bushing between the spring and iLift unit or iLift and chassis? The factory bushing at the damper shaft does not support the vehicle weight in the OEM application and I can't think of a way that same bushing would support the weight in a hydraulic or pneumatic lifting system.

 

[iLiftSystems]

Is there a separate urethane bushing between the spring and iLift unit or iLift and chassis? The factory bushing at the damper shaft does not support the vehicle weight in the OEM application and I can't think of a way that same bushing would support the weight in a hydraulic or pneumatic lifting system.

Some photos will help to clarify how our urethane top mount bushings support the weight of the vehicle.

The iLIFT® urethane bushings support the weight of the vehicle in much the same way that the KW Club Sport top mounts do.
The Club Sport top mounts have a metal flange under the pillow ball that supports the load at the top of the coil spring.
See photo below:

Our aluminum iLIFT® top mounts do the same thing with our iLIFT® cylinders but use urethane bushings instead of a pillow ball.
This photos shows the iLIFT® cylinder positioned under the urethane bushing and the coil spring mounted inside the cylinder assembly.
The gap between the top mount and the iLIFT® cylinder was intentionally designed to be as small as possible to maximize the suspension travel and allow users to lower their NSX's even lower than with the above KW type top mount.
See photo below:

The iLIFT® urethane bushings for the OEM (steel) top hats perform as well as they do in our aluminum top mounts (shown above)... just without the 50% weight savings available with the aluminum top plates.


Here's a photo (below) of the urethane replacement bushings kit for the OEM (steel) top hats.

 

[stuntman]

Great, thanks!