Knee Pads .....

[Hrant]

OK, some of us are engaged in a private discussion which has turned into macho posturing regarding who is better fit and is in better shape, and has more testosterone hormones for smack talk .......... not to mention who has the bigger ass ...........

In my view, these are all diversion tactics to the basic question at hand. Bare with me this has scientific implications for NSXPO 2003 ........

How many of you have:

(a) "heard" of some drivers using knee pads, especially on the left knee (left steering cars) while driving on race tracks ............? All that we are seeking is an answer that says yes or never. An assumption is made that often such drivers are using oem seats and oem seat belts but this is not necessarily an absolute condition.

(b) how many of you have "personally experienced" some discomfort or minor bruise on your left knee by driving the NSX on the track or even some twitsies and leaning on the door to keep you firmly planted in the oem seat/seat belts .........? Again, we are looking for a show of hands to ascertain whether this is a bogus question (as it it is "bullshit" ........) or indeed some have experienced it.

(c) If you answered (b) in the affirmative, does the dead pedal help to brace you firmly in the seat? In other words, you don't need to use your left knee leaniong on the door/door handle to brace yourself more firmly, just pushing the dead pedal is enough for you to stay planted in your seat while taking turns ........... unless you have 4 to 6 point harness belts or an aftermarket racing seat, and/or a big ass that fits tightly in the oem seat/seat belt .... !

(d) how many of you who have tracked at Infineon Raceway think this track causes more g force pulls and push in "successive sequences" on you compared to Thunderhill, or Laguna Seca? The question assumes you have run these tracks too and more than once .....

(e) If you answered (d) in the affirmative, are you adjusting your seating to brace yourself as you transition from right/left turns? If yes, do you use the dead pedal to brace yourself and is that enough or you also lean on your left knee to hold you in place? ........... unless again you have 4 to 6 point harness belts or a big ass that fits tightly in the oem seat/seat belt

And finally, what level of driver do you classify yourself as: Advanced, Intermediate, or Beginner?

Folks, keep the responses clean please ........ Those involved in this private debate, please abstain from posting your opinions, let's see what the trackers say ..........

Thanks.

 

[ncdogdoc]

I cannot remark as to Infineon.

Without the use of five or six point belts, and/or race seat (belts work better) I would have very tender points on my left leg, and very sore muscles in my left thigh. I did find that the dead pedal was very useful.

I think a harness bar and good 3" belts make a huge difference in a persons ability to drive better. If you are not having to keep yourself in your seat, you can pay more attention to your line and staying smooth.

As far as the stock seat goes, pulling the bottom seat cushion does also help to keep your (or at least mine) fat ass better planted. And no, it does not hurt. Your brain has more important things to pay attention to

 

[Nimbus]

I wear knee pads everytime I autocross in both the S2000 and NSX because I do find myself slightly bruised the next day after the event. I have no problems in road course driving though.

 

[Kinan]

Great thread and idea.
I thought it was the seams in my jeans and tried sweatpants with some relief.
The first time I tracked I almost had to pull over the pain got so intense, then I experimented with seat position and minimized it.

I don't track it enough to get racing seats and harness.
Going to try this next time.

 

[docjohn]

Man, Hrant, I had flashbacks of my medical boards reading your ?'s.lol As a brief answar I occasionaly wear a soccer knee pad turned outwards on the left to prevent bruising,and I'm strapped into the stock seat with 5-point simpson cam lock.Interresting to note that My occasional student passengers all agree that they felt the stock belts and seat were inadequate at hot lapp pace to hold them securely in thier opinion.

 

[Taj]

No knee pad but found myself bracing with my left knee against the door. The dead padel is just a foot rest for me and I use my knee a lot. In fact the lack of support affect my steering input and I am seriously considering aftermarket seats and harness.

 

[nsxtasy]

How many of you have:

(a) "heard" of some drivers using knee pads, especially on the left knee (left steering cars) while driving on race tracks ............?

No. It's quite possible, but I had not heard of it before this discussion.

(b) how many of you have "personally experienced" some discomfort or minor bruise on your left knee by driving the NSX on the track

Discomfort, yes. Visible bruising, no.

we are looking for a show of hands to ascertain whether this is a bogus question (as it it is "b*******" [ EDIT ] ........) or indeed some have experienced it.

Perhaps the "bull" aspect had nothing to do with whether or not there might be discomfort or bruising...

(c) If you answered (b) in the affirmative, does the dead pedal help to brace you firmly in the seat?

No.

(d) how many of you who have tracked at Infineon Raceway think this track causes more g force pulls and push in "successive sequences" on you compared to Thunderhill, or Laguna Seca?

I have not run Infineon or Thunderhill. I have run Laguna Seca and 19 other tracks. I can only say that any track, properly driven, should cause high lateral g forces, and that no track is that much different from any other in terms of the amount of g forces in cornering. And that includes tracks that have "successive sequences" such as Mid-Ohio. So while I cannot specifically answer this question regarding Infineon, the other 20 tracks I've driven lead me to believe the answer will be no. Ask me again on October 13.

what level of driver do you classify yourself as: Advanced, Intermediate, or Beginner?

Advanced.

Folks, keep the responses clean please ........

You mean, not use bad words in our posts like the ones you did in yours?

 

[nsx1164]

(a) "heard" of some drivers using knee pads, especially on the left knee (left steering cars) while driving on race tracks ............? All that we are seeking is an answer that says yes or never. An assumption is made that often such drivers are using oem seats and oem seat belts but this is not necessarily an absolute condition.

(b) how many of you have "personally experienced" some discomfort or minor bruise on your left knee by driving the NSX on the track or even some twitsies and leaning on the door to keep you firmly planted in the oem seat/seat belts .........? Again, we are looking for a show of hands to ascertain whether this is a bogus question (as it it is "bullshit" ........) or indeed some have experienced it.

I've experienced some discomfort on my outer left knee at some tracks (most Midwest tracks run clockwise).

I run OE seats with a 4-point harness, and am a bit space-constrained inside the cockpit (lets face it, NSX interior really isn't designed for us beefier "manly" types, particularly when wearing a helmet ), resulting in a less-than-optimal seating position at times.

I've had OK results using a thin knee pad, turned sideways to pad the outer side of my left knee. Also works GREAT when working on the car

Dead pedal gives your left foot a place to rest when its not operating the clutch, and gives some support for general use. It does NOT IMO give me adequate "bracing" in higher-G corners.

Driving Experience: Intermediate (5-6 years HPDE), and still on street-compound tires (lower cornering Gs?). Faster than some "advanced" folks, but there's always some less-experienced guy who will surprise you.

 

[92 white 0650]

Yeah, well, sorta, kinda

OK Hrant, here's some more ammunition but they're rubber bullets.

I did it a few times auto-crossing and have worn them a few times on the track. I still have them with my driving shoes, gloves etc. but I don't bother anymore. And I stopped bothering with it before I got the 6 pt harness. BTW, the harness doesn't do much for my knees, they still end up bracing against the console or door. Now maybe if I did the OTC, it would be different.

But you know me........."Mr Indecisive"

 

[Hrant]

Yo Ted,

The word I got is you need to eat more pizzas and drink more wine and not beer to beef up those lower cheeks muscles in the posterior for a better fit and you would be ok ....... LOL!

I will try my kids' volleyball pads and see how ridiculous that would look ............. perhaps we can have a contest with Al's bowling shoes to see which one would top the list of "best dressed" for the track ..................

 

[millionshopper]

Knee bruising!

Wow, I thought I was the only one getting bruises on my knees after an autocross. I should try knee pads next time.

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Hrant,

Be honest, are you just looking for another momento idea for NSXPO2003??

Can't wait,

LarryB

 

[Hrant]

Here is something that might interest you as a follow up update, Ted was dying to start this discussion again, especially since he now races Formula Mazdas ..........

http://ncracing.org/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=645608087&f=881601987&m=60610424511

 

[TigerNSX]

(a) "heard" of some drivers using knee pads, especially on the left knee (left steering cars) while driving on race tracks ............? All that we are seeking is an answer that says yes or never. An assumption is made that often such drivers are using oem seats and oem seat belts but this is not necessarily an absolute condition.

Wow, I really thought that I was the only one who felt the pain on my left knee.


(b) how many of you have "personally experienced" some discomfort or minor bruise on your left knee by driving the NSX on the track or even some twitsies and leaning on the door to keep you firmly planted in the oem seat/seat belts .........? Again, we are looking for a show of hands to ascertain whether this is a bogus question (as it it is "bullshit" ........) or indeed some have experienced it.

I have. My left knee basically press firmly against the door panel. My entire hip moves around the seat, too.


(c) If you answered (b) in the affirmative, does the dead pedal help to brace you firmly in the seat? In other words, you don't need to use your left knee leaniong on the door/door handle to brace yourself more firmly, just pushing the dead pedal is enough for you to stay planted in your seat while taking turns ........... unless you have 4 to 6 point harness belts or an aftermarket racing seat, and/or a big ass that fits tightly in the oem seat/seat belt .... !

I use the dead pedal, but still need my left knee to lean against the door panel. I use a stock seat and seatbelt.


(d) how many of you who have tracked at Infineon Raceway think this track causes more g force pulls and push in "successive sequences" on you compared to Thunderhill, or Laguna Seca? The question assumes you have run these tracks too and more than once .....

N/A


(e) If you answered (d) in the affirmative, are you adjusting your seating to brace yourself as you transition from right/left turns? If yes, do you use the dead pedal to brace yourself and is that enough or you also lean on your left knee to hold you in place? ........... unless again you have 4 to 6 point harness belts or a big ass that fits tightly in the oem seat/seat belt


And finally, what level of driver do you classify yourself as: Advanced, Intermediate, or Beginner?

Beginner, about 10 track days.

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: "It's supposed to hurt"

Hrant, you young, snivelling wussie, come sit in the Formula Mazda once and imagine how your hips, neck and hands would feel after a 20 minute session. Then, imagine being my age. Turn 2 at T-Hill feels like an eternity after 15 laps. You'll count your lucky stars you only have to worry about measly little knee pads.

If it was comfortable, everyone would be out there and we'd never get a clear lap. Quit your whining.

 

[Hrant]

Well Ted, what can I say. It's all in the pedigree .......... some of us want to track in style - image is everything you know ... while others are happy just to have enough fuel to get to the track, if you know what I mean ....

Now if I can only come up with some customized logo knee pads, then I will not only look cool but I might even convince myself that I can now have faster laps too .... ... well perception is a good motivator. But wait, we need to make a blue one for Big Al .... [local joke, Al is in his blue color mood lately- notice his posted pictures on these forums].

But I agree with you, I wouldn't last 15 laps in OEM leather seats, OEM seat belts with cushioned harness pads ......... before my knees give up my bladder will ...... but hey, then you will have a clear lap ahead of you

 

[Tank]

For what it's worth at this point.... I had to go to knee pads while autox'ing. When I wore shorts I would actually wear the skin off the side of my left knee I had it jammed so hard into the door. And I have a harness!!! For some reason the dead pedal just didn't help me. I also drive an M Coupe for autox and I don't have the problem in that car. I think it has to do with the fact I can sit more upright in the M than I can in the NSX (even though I took the bottom of the NSX's seat out).

So you're definately not alone.

t

 

[DanO]

I'm going to try taping some pipe insulation to the door to see if it helps. The soreness and bruising does seem to go away after a few days though. But compared to the frequent bangs and burses I get mountain biking and sailboat racing, I guess it doesn’t compare.

DanO

 

[nsx1164]

I'm going to try taping some pipe insulation to the door to see if it helps. The soreness and bruising does seem to go away after a few days though. But compared to the frequent bangs and burses I get mountain biking and sailboat racing, I guess it doesn’t compare.

DanO -- get the dang kneepads, and join the girlie-man crowd

Bonus -- these come in handy when you're working on the car, IIRC -- something you do quite a bit

#############

Chatting with some folks, it seems that the absence of an anti-sub strap in my harness setup seems to be the culprit -- and I end up bracing myself against the door.

As an aside, I'm noticing it also comes in handy when sitting in the passenger seat during lapping sessions. Some of these tricked-out driver-ed cars can get pretty tight in-cabin.

 

[apapada]

a)I too thought was the only one who felt the pain on my left knee.

b) My left knee presses against the door panel.

c) I too use the dead pedal, but still need my left knee to lean against the door panel. I use a stock seat (with bottom removed) and seatbelt.

d) N/A

e) Beginner with the NSX, Intermediate otherwise

 

[RP-Motorsports]

a-never
b-never
c-I do use the dead pedal, but NOT for support, just for comfort
d-n/a
e-n/a
f-advanced

I have a 5-pt belt, and a narrow race seat, so I don't move a bit!

 

[PHOEN$X]

Knee protection

Allow me to chime in on the subject of knee protection. Having survived a low-to-moderate speed crash in an NSX, I would not even contemplate participating in another driving event without a knee brace. I was pretty fit prior to the accident (ate a healthy diet, exercised 3x/week, body fat under 10%, etc.) but boy, did the impact from the collision do a number on my knee!

My knee cap was dislocated upon impact, along with some scrapes and cuts (I believe you've all seen the pictures ). However despite two months of strenuous rehabilitation, I am still struggling with mobility. I have regained about 90% range of motion in my left knee (it's been an extremely slow and painful process, btw), but I still cannot bend my knee all the way. Believe me, a knee injury is no fun, and if there's anything you can do to reduce the risk of sustaining one, I would jump on it without hesitation.

Have a safe and fun time at the track.