keyless go for nsx?

WOODY · 20 December 2005

I am trying to find "keyless go" system similar to that of the newer mercedes.

http://www.cars.com/carsapp/nationa...tf=/advice/safety/security/security_road.tmpl

this is a credit card that stays in your wallet and unlocks your car when you get within a certain range or touch the door handle. It also enables the car to be started by the start button(similar to the s2000 one) without ever pulling out the key. anyone heard of an aftermarket application for this?
thanks
woody

menuserve · 20 December 2005

damn that would be sweet

drew · 20 December 2005

I was consulted by one of the devs at Delphi, they were wanting to do a similar system in the C5/C6.

The system required to pick up the RFID anywhere within the vehicle is problematic. Requires many sensors and loops running around the interior. It would have been a very expensive price point for a Corvette.

Which is why you see the systems where you STILL have to put "a key" in a place where it is easy for the system to read it. That is where the sensor is located.

Of course, the whole system falls apart because there has to be an easy and inexpensive method to make (or reprogram) replacement keys.

I recommended hard matched keycards and ECU. The downside: if you lose or require an extra key...the ECU would have to be removed and sent back to the factory and the keys re/made. Only the dealer could do this and they would have to have loaner matched sets on hand. The inconvenience was deemed not to be worth the extra security.

Otherwise the whole thing is rather cute, but rather insecure if you have the right equipment.

Drew
/I'm not sure it matters: most auto theft nowadays is done on the wishes of the registered owner. Essentially, it is insurance fraud to get out of leases and upside down loans.

NSX PTY · 20 December 2005

Double sweet !!

Maybe if this thread is moved or copied in the NSX stereo/electronic gadgets section someone could help.... D'Ecosse ?? :biggrin:

AC

whealy · 20 December 2005

FYI ... The VW Phaeton and the 05+ Toyota Avalon Limited have similar systems as well.

SNDSOUL · 22 December 2005

Compustar offers a key fob that arms and disarms your alarm when you get close to your vehicle, you could adapt that system into the starting system, but due to FCC regulations it is only available in Canada.

prova4re · 26 December 2005

Brett is right, we install them for some of the dealers over here.
We don't install them on manual cars due to Canadian liability issues.

WOODY · 26 December 2005

would you put one in for me if I promise not to tell?

D'Ecosse · 26 December 2005

prova4re said:
Brett is right, we install them for some of the dealers over here.
We don't install them on manual cars due to Canadian liability issues.

Since we have a neutral switch on the NSX should be easy to integrate this safely with no fear of starting in gear.

WOODY · 26 December 2005

How would the starting be an issue? I would just like the car to unlock when I walk up and allow the car to be started with a push button without ever taking the keys out of my pocket. Brian...can you set this up? Would you need a key to left in the ignition all the time to prevent the steering lock from being engaged? I dont want to turn a key and then push the button.

prova4re · 27 December 2005

An auto start on a manual car is a pain in the butt to use, imo.
You can make it work and it will start, but when it times out you cant start it again.

Woody
Your car would have to be in neutral and the stearing lock would need to be disabled. Not a good idea imo.
I am no expert at installs, so I will ask one of our master installers if he can do it.
I think you need the clutch engaged to start the car but I could be wrong.
Maybe Brett can shed some more light on this issue.

WOODY · 27 December 2005

it would not be an auto start. it would unlock the car and enable a pushbutton to start the car without using the key. This scenario: I walk up to the locked car and the sensor in the car detects the card in my wallet and unlocks the doors. the sensor engages the ignition just as turning the key 3/4 toward start would. I use an s2000 start button on the console to turn over the car just as the key would. The only "safety " issue I see would be figuring a way to disable the steering lock.

D'Ecosse · 27 December 2005

prova4re said:
An auto start on a manual car is a pain in the butt to use, imo.
You can make it work and it will start, but when it times out you cant start it again.

Woody
Your car would have to be in neutral and the stearing lock would need to be disabled. Not a good idea imo.
I am no expert at installs, so I will ask one of our master installers if he can do it.
I think you need the clutch engaged to start the car but I could be wrong.
Maybe Brett can shed some more light on this issue.

Not using this specific device but principle is the same as with an alarm with auto-start - I have devised circuit using the OEM neutral switch on the NSX in conjunction with the "start signal" to close a relay whose contacts bypass the clutch switch (clutch does not have to be disengaged, only the pedal switch defeated). There are no fancy routines to exit the vehicle to enable the start on a manual car - treat it like an automatic otherwise. There is no issue stopping & restarting because no "routine" is required.

I also designed similar circuit for the "big red start button" aficionados.

As far as driving the car however, there's just no way around the steering lock without removing it (?) from the ignition lock mechanism. Also, with the alarm, there are other kills that prevent theft - to keep car running when started, the ignition key needs to be turned on; secondly, depressing brake pedal without key in ign position will kill the motor. I suppose with the "proximity " key, this could simulate whatever safety interlocks come with the device.

SNDSOUL · 27 December 2005

Woody, the main issue with your idea, besides the steering lock, is if you were just standing by your car talking, for instance, your ignition would turn on as if you were sitting in it. The car has no way of determining if you are just by your car or wanting to drive it in that situation.
We do remote starts on manual transmissions all the time and Compustar makes the procedure very safe, but it is sometimes a bitch to get past the clutch engagement. Newer Fords are some of the more difficult b/c they use reverse polarity on the clutch pedal and a resistance change on a safety wire. Most cars are as simple as adding a relay in line with the status output of the alarm so that a negative signal is sent to the read side of neutral safety switch when the remote start is activated. The Compustar uses what they call reservation mode in which the remote start cannot be engaged unless the vehicle is turned off with the parking brake up and the car in neutral. It's pretty fool proof.

D'Ecosse · 27 December 2005

SNDSOUL said:
Woody, the main issue with your idea, besides the steering lock, is if you were just standing by your car talking, for instance, your ignition would turn on as if you were sitting in it. The car has no way of determining if you are just by your car or wanting to drive it in that situation.

Excellent point! Personally I find the features of the alarm remote start more than adequate.

SNDSOUL said:
We do remote starts on manual transmissions all the time and Compustar makes the procedure very safe, but it is sometimes a bitch to get past the clutch engagement. Newer Fords are some of the more difficult b/c they use reverse polarity on the clutch pedal and a resistance change on a safety wire. Most cars are as simple as adding a relay in line with the status output of the alarm so that a negative signal is sent to the read side of neutral safety switch when the remote start is activated. The Compustar uses what they call reservation mode in which the remote start cannot be engaged unless the vehicle is turned off with the parking brake up and the car in neutral. It's pretty fool proof.

Pretty much any car is workable with a little bit of relay logic without even getting too complicated. It's also possible to add the parking brake into my circuit without much additional effort.
On the DEI's you already have an additional protection mode vs the Crimestopper for instance - it has a neutral switch input to the brain (normally expected for an auto) to enable the starter to begin with & then you can still utilze the combination of starter O/P & neutral switch (plus parking brake if desired!) to interlock the clutch pedal switch relay also per my circuit, if you are really concerned about redundant protection.
The units with sequences that require you to shut down in certain order (as you described for the Compustar) are frankly onerous IMO & quite unneccesary when you have a neutral switch on the car - most manual cars do not, so some alarms require these elaborate schemes to protect vs an auto which always has a neutral or Park switch available. It's easier to just get the auto kit (if manufacturer has different for auto & manual) & wire approrpriately.

Hugh · 27 December 2005

What's so hard about gettting in your car, inserting the key in the ignition and exerting a few nano-calories starting it the old fashioned way? What if one of these systems has an electronic hissy fit and you can't enter or worse, start your car at all?

In my opinion some things are better left as simple as possible.

WOODY · 27 December 2005

It would be nice to never have to dig out your keys, I would love to see this for the front door of my house also-a keyless, secure environment would be very convenient I think. Too many times arms are full of junk..maybe "shave" the door knob on my house and add an auto opener!!!!!:biggrin:

prova4re · 28 December 2005

WOODY said:
"shave" the door knob on my house and add an auto opener!!!!!:biggrin:

Now that I can do! :smile:

satx · 15 January 2006

SNDSOUL said:
Woody, the main issue with your idea, besides the steering lock, is if you were just standing by your car talking, for instance, your ignition would turn on as if you were sitting in it. The car has no way of determining if you are just by your car or wanting to drive it in that situation.
The Compustar uses what they call reservation mode in which the remote start cannot be engaged unless the vehicle is turned off with the parking brake up and the car in neutral. It's pretty fool proof.

maybe in our "keyless push-button start" system, the parking brake must be down for it to be "armed". That would assure you are not just standing near the car.

Whatwasthat · 12 April 2006

satx said:
maybe in our "keyless push-button start" system, the parking brake must be down for it to be "armed". That would assure you are not just standing near the car.

That is a good idea. I'm thinking of designing a PC system into my car and was looking for something just like this. I need that compustar unit, know anywhere I can get it from in the U.S.?

I'm going a bit farther with the PC system because I want to use the finger-print reader instead of push button start. This will give me extra security. I am working on a solenoid to replace the iginiton switch and lock mechanism. This will really make my car keyless. The ignition lock will disengage with a signal from the pc after confirmation from the finger-scan. I had to find a pc with dual operating system support for quick pc startup for the finger-print reader. I'll have the compustar key fob unlock my doors and activate my computer to turn on the Linux operating system to power-up the finger-print reader as I walk up. This takes only 8 seconds rather than waiting for MS XP to start up. By the time I open up the door and sit down the PC will be booted up and ready to read my finger scan.

keyless go for nsx?

Similar threads