Katrina flood damaged cars

Joined
6 June 2000
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184
Location
Los Gatos, CA
Just saw this on the acuramdx.org site and thought it was good information to pass along:

The news has been reporting the Insurance commissioner showing flood damaged cars from the Katrina area filtering into California. Many of these vehicles have had their titles cleaned in states like Georgia, Arizona, Texas, and Nevada. This title washing is an attempt to give the vehicle the appearance of not coming for the flood zone. If you or anyone you know is looking to purchase a vehicle nearly new or used, have them obtain the vin number, and go to http://www.nicb.com/. This is the National Insurance Crime Bureau (formally NITB). After Katrina hit NICB sent teams of agents to the area and worked with state and local law enforcement and recorded the vin numbers on vehicles damaged in the area, and those that were quickly being shipped out of the area. The agents and state troopers set up check points and recorded the vins of vehicles leaving the effected area. The service is free, and could give some insight to a perspective purchaser.
 
pay a little more now, or pay alot more later

Just some cut-n-paste of stuff I had book-marked...
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The National Automobile Dealers Association says although there's no foolproof method to test a vehicle for flood damage, a prospective buyer should, at a minimum, perform these inspections before a purchase:

1 | Check the vehicle's title history.
2 | Examine the interior and engine compartment for evidence of water and grit.
3 | Check for recently shampooed carpet.
4 | Check under the floorboard carpet for water residue or stains.
5 | Look for rusting inside the car and beneath interior carpeting, and visually inspect all interior upholstery and door panels for evidence of fading.
6 | Check under the dashboard for dried mud and residue.
7 | Check for rust on any screws in the console or other areas where water normally would not reach unless the vehicle had been submerged.
8 | Check for mud or grit in alternator crevices, behind wiring harnesses and around the small recesses of starter motors, power-steering pumps and relays.
9 | Complete a detailed inspection of the electrical wiring system, looking for rusted components, water residue or suspicious corrosion.
10 | Inspect the undercarriage of other components for evidence of rust and flaking metal that would not normally be associated with late-model vehicles.



FLAWED DISCLOSURE

Used-car buyers have always had to be wary of unscrupulous individuals fobbing off a "cream puff" previously creamed in an accident. In all states except Wyoming and the District of Columbia, the used car's certificate of title is supposed to tell about severe accident damage. But title disclosure is incomplete. For starters, accident disclosure is required only if damage exceeds typically 70 percent or more of the vehicle's pre-accident book value or the insurer declares the vehicle a total loss. Lesser damage is not disclosed on the title

In most cases, when an insurance company declares a total loss, it pays off the policyholder's claim and takes title to the vehicle. Often, the insurer must then apply for a different type of title for that vehicle, one generically known as "salvage," though different states use other designations, including "junk," "unrebuildable," "scrap," and "parts only." Whatever it's called, a salvage title's key distinction is that it declares the wreck not worth repairing, as far as the insurer is concerned, and doesn't allow the vehicle to be operated on public roads.

At this point, the wreck itself usually sits at a salvage auction company, which often obtains the salvage title and handles other paperwork as agent for the insurer. Three national chains, ADESA Impact, Copart, and Insurance Auto Auctions, sell insurance salvage vehicles almost exclusively at auctions throughout the country and handle about half of the estimated 2.5 million vehicles totaled each year. (Other auction chains sell unwrecked fleet, auto-rental company, and off-lease vehicles.)

From here, the car or truck might be sold to a dismantler for parts, a scrap processor, or a rebuilder or used-car dealer who works with a rebuilder to put the vehicle back together. In any event, the salvage title is transferred from the insurer to the buyer. If the wreck is rebuilt, it must regain a type of title that allows it to again operate on public roads. That's almost easier done than said because the majority of states require no special inspection of rebuilt wrecks. When inspection is required, it's often cursory, industry experts say.

Consider this red-letter warning on California salvage titles: "The vehicle described herein has been declared a total loss salvage vehicle" and "may not be registered without a brake and light inspection." The title says nothing, for example, about the frame, suspension, or air bags.

When a new title is issued for a rebuilt wreck, disclosure about prior damage leaves much to be desired. Every state uses different designations and methods of notice. Among the worst: Colorado, which alerts consumers that the vehicle was rebuilt with an "R" on the title in front of the vehicle's identified "make," in same-size type. Among the best: Washington state, which requires "WA REBUILT" in big letters running diagonally across the title.

The lack of uniform titling is made worse by the fact that states can't easily share information with one another. The National Motor Vehicle Title Information System, a computerized database designed to connect all state motor vehicle departments, may alleviate the problem, but it has been bogged down in development and may not be fully operational for several years.

Internal corrosion: This can be created by sloppy welds or failure to apply zinc-based undercoating--though generous undercoating is a favorite cover-up for shoddy workmanship. But the biggest corrosion problems start with vehicles that have been submerged above the door sill in floodwaters--especially salt water--that invade the sensitive electronic components in the dashboard and engine. Air-bag sensors and electronics can be harmed as well.

Flood cars can be properly restored, says Plain, the Ocala, Fla., rebuilder, but it takes about 75 hours to strip the car down to its shell, replace all electronics, wash the upholstery, and dry up and protect wiring and connections. Such work isn't cheap, either.

Because much of that work can be left undone and undetected, other collision repairers and experts recommend that consumers avoid vehicles that have slept with the fishes. When only a cosmetic mop-up and air fresheners are used, flood cars can literally corrode from the inside out, causing mystery problems and electrical failures.


QUESTIONABLE TITLES

Used-car buyers are at a further disadvantage when a vehicle's salvage history is not disclosed.

In Indiana, for example, State Farm Insurance sold, exchanged, or transferred hundreds of totaled vehicles in the 1990s without getting the required salvage titles, according to Jeffrey Modisett, the Indiana attorney general, who reached a settlement with State Farm in 1998. Consumers who ultimately bought these vehicles "did so without knowledge of the damage, safety, reliability, and true value of these vehicles," he said.

Hurst, the State Farm spokesman, says the insurer offered to buy back 437 improperly titled vehicles as part of the settlement. He says the problem stemmed from a misunderstanding by a salvage dealer who disposed of the cars and trucks for State Farm.

But even if a vehicle gets a salvage title, that title can easily be washed by registering the car in a state with more lenient thresholds for salvage- or rebuilt-branding. For example, in Oklahoma, a salvage title is required when damage equals only 60 percent of the car's book value. For a car with more damage, a rebuilder can simply retitle the car in Texas, where a salvage title isn't required until damage hits 75 percent of book value.


RECOMMENDATIONS

Before you buy any used vehicle, have a mechanic whom you trust inspect it thoroughly.
 
They have been putting up signs for auctions coming up in this area for a field of 50000+ flooded cars to be auctioned off. Originally they said that every car was going to be crushed but I guess someone changed their mind.:confused: I have been meaning to take a picture of the field that the cars are in b/c it is an amazing site spanning at least a mile of roadway and what appears to be an endless depth.:eek: Flying over it, it looks like a packed superdome parking lot.
 
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