Just drove home my 91 black/ivory, my initial feelings

Joined
5 May 2005
Messages
190
Location
Boston, MA
A bit about my weekend....

Saturday night I had a company party, then sunday I rented a car and left Boston for Bluefield West Virginia. Silly me, I left at 4pm for a 780 mile trip, and didn't get there until about 5am. After a short nap, and dealing with the formalities of buying the car, I was on my way. Noon, headed back to Boston.

It is a 1991, black/ivory, 5spd, with 39,000 miles..

This was my first time driving an NSX, and it was far different than I had guessed it would feel. My size 12 sneakers were rather annoyed to be jammed into the small footwell, but after a few miles(and learning how to adjust the steering wheel) it was perfectly comfortable.

The gear selector is quite nice; it feels much more precise than my M3's. the only fault I have with it is that it is difficult to tell when you are *not* in gear, but after some time that issue resolved itself. The controls in general are functional, and well placed, but they don't have the same quality feel as my M3.

By the way, I consider the E36 M3 the benchmark all other cars fail to meet!! Some are better here, or there, but not the total package :)

Getting in and out of the car took some adjustment because you descend into it rather than "sit down". I am accustomed to riding passenger in "low" cars, but the steering wheel obstructing my large legs and body took some getting used to. After getting in position the seats are perfectly comfortable, and after hours in the car my butt did *not* hurt in the least. My M3's seats kill my butt after 2 hours. However I did notice that in hard corners the seats seemed to "give" a little. I don't mean the cushion, but the seat itself seems to "bend". (ever so slightly). Also the 14 year old leather shows its age; probably not conditioned over the years.. Hard to fault the car itself for this though.

The radio. It sucks; period.

The climate control. it is 'ok', but how the heck do you turn on the rear window defogger? 800 miles; I still don't know. Then again I haven't had a chance to just "look" at the stuff in the car(I'm at work now).

At slow speeds the brakes were far sharper than I had guessed they would be, as people say this is often a weak point. The clutch was much more on/off than cars I had driven recently, despite this I slipped the clutch far more than I would have liked at first. Some time later I tried power shifting and was greeted by the singing sound of gears grinding; I won't try that again.

The steering.. oh.. the steering.. Why do they make sports cars with power steering? What have they done... oh my.. what have they done!! This trip was my first in a manual steering sports car, and I was rewarded more than I could have imagined.. If you move the wheel a millimeter the car changes track, and it seems as though you can feel every irregularity in the road surface.. The feel of the wheel through turns; incomparable.

The suspension.. Firm, but not overly harsh.. I am biased toward sports cars I suppose, but the ride didn't feel "bumpy" in the least. The turnin feels delayed; not as crisp as I think it should be. I am not sure if this is a problem with my car or the NSX in general, but it should be noted.. At turn-in, a slight sense of "float" is felt.. As if the car is deciding what to do.. "left? oh you want to go LEFT.. yes.. ok, lets go" Once on track, the car feels perfect.. I have not pushed too hard in turns at this point, but the tires and suspension seem to hold the road further than my wits will take me.

This is when I noticed how the brakes are lacking.. Stopping from speed.. "Oh, you want to slow down? one second.. ok.. here we go".. The pedal is firm, and you do slow, but not the neck brake I expect for that much pedal pressure.. Different pads and fluid will be on order quite soon.

The motor... What an odd beast, I must say. It reminds me of Dr. Jeckal and Mr. Hyde.. If just putting around, shifting lazily, the car feels slow; I would say, a dog. Select the wrong gear, and you are greeted with a lot of intake noise and that is about it. "woof"

Select the right gear, and you had better make sure the car is pointed the right way, because it goes like a bat out of hell. A great sound of the intake sucking air, and the car rockets from 4,500 RPM to 8,000 RPM. First, second, third.. well, I stop there :) I haven't pushed fourth gear to redline, but it pulls quite hard when going from the top of third.. I expect the car would hit 140 before hitting any sort of "wall".

When accelerating with any sort of tight corners, the car scares me. My M3, I will toss at the limit without fear of losing control. This is partly because I have autocrossed my M3 quite a bit, and also because I've put 50,000 miles on that car. But more than that, the NSX is like a beast waiting to kill you. It is roaring at you, pulling you in two directions; just waiting for you to stop looking where you are going..

I look forward to bringing this car to the track, and to the autocross courses.. I know I won't be able to really push it until I have a lot of runoff room.. When I do, I'll be able to give a better account.. Until then, I'm just going to keep the shiny side up. :)

By the way.. After riding 13 hours in a Hyndai(not a bad little car), sleeping two hours, then turning around and riding 12 hours back in the NSX; I was sad to be home, and wanted to keep driving...

-Jeremy

PS: I am a bit sleep deprived, so if this doesn't make sense: tough
 
Congrats and enjoy!
 
As the past owner of many BMW's and the past owner of the largest BMW performance and parts source in NY in the 1980's and 90's I hear what you are saying about the E36 M3. Great car no doubt but wait until you have some more seat time in the NSX and find out there is another level of greatness byond BMW.

Hands down the best piece of mechanical excellence I have ever owned!!


ENJOY!!!!!!!!
 
Some things to consider:

- Are the shocks original? Might have one or more worn out shocks. Shouldn't float at all IMO.
- Are the tires OEM or of high quality? Allignment recently? Turn in should be NOW and almost telepathic.
- Are the pads of a high quality? Most of the time the people who upgrade brakes feel they fade at the track on repeated laps. The OEM brakes are perfectly fine for light track and/or the street and should feel great. That said the BMW M3 has the best brake feel stock of any car I have even been in.
- Radio? What radio? You have VTEC tunes that are better! :)
- Seats moving? Might want to check that out. I have never seen or heard of that before.

Since this is your first drive I would recommend getting together with others in your area. You will learn a lot and then can compare to see if things are normal or not.

Enjoy your NSX! Still love mine 8 years and counting!
 
^ I'm with Nick, it sounds like your NSX needs a little TLC.

I have E46 coupe (330 manual/sport), and there is no contest. It feels like a bus compared to my NSX. I'd check alignment, tires, and shocks. Also, I know I am in the minority, but I HATE the OEM brake pads. A more aggressive pad made a world of difference in my daily driving pleasure.
 
I agree with others. I would check to see what tires you have and check your alignment. When i first got my NSX it had the 97 rims with stock OEM tires. I felt the car turned in too fast if you can believe that. I was not used to such immediate turn in. Like others said, it should almost feel telepathic. Turn the wheel and you are headed in that direction. Later, I switched to other brands of tires and while I can't really say the steering is slower, it is not the same. For me, the trade off in tire wear was acceptable as the OEM tires wear out really fast. I would suggest you get the OEM tires, get an alignment, and live with it like that at least once. Then you can decide of you want to go back to other brands of tires. To take it one step further you could even get the alignment set back to 91-93 original specs and see how you like it. I never drove with the original 91-93 alignment specs so I can't comment on how it handles, but people here say it is the ultimate set up if you can live with the tire wear.

Oh, also I too think the stock radio sucks. As for interior quality I differ a bit. I never had a E36 M3, but my regular E36 interior didn't feel as high quality too me.
 
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matteni said:
Some things to consider:

- Are the shocks original? Might have one or more worn out shocks. Shouldn't float at all IMO.
- Are the tires OEM or of high quality? Allignment recently? Turn in should be NOW and almost telepathic.
- Are the pads of a high quality? Most of the time the people who upgrade brakes feel they fade at the track on repeated laps. The OEM brakes are perfectly fine for light track and/or the street and should feel great. That said the BMW M3 has the best brake feel stock of any car I have even been in.
- Radio? What radio? You have VTEC tunes that are better! :)
- Seats moving? Might want to check that out. I have never seen or heard of that before.

Since this is your first drive I would recommend getting together with others in your area. You will learn a lot and then can compare to see if things are normal or not.

Enjoy your NSX! Still love mine 8 years and counting!


* Re shocks.. They are the original shocks, and the basics seem fine, no bounce, no noises.. I haven't even had the time to find the rear window defroster, let alone look into this.. Over the weekend I'll have a closer look..

I may have overstated the float, it isn't like an american car; However I do think something is off. Also, it isn't seen unless doing very sharp steering input. The float is identical in both directions, and unless both shocks are blown(they aren't), my guess is that the car has worn/dryrotted sway bar mounts.. However, an alignment could be the issue as well..

* Tires.. It has a tire i'm not that familiar with: Nitto, and I don't know the model. They seem pretty good.. I don't think the float is attributed to this..

* Brake Pads: The brakes are in good repair, but I am not sure what the pad material is; I need to ask the previous owner.

* Seat: I've never driven a performance car where I didn't notice the seat move some when turning, save my friend's F355. However, I wouldn't be surprised if it moved but I didn't notice because I didn't have the steering wheel as a point of reference...... I don't think anything is actually wrong with the seat..

And yes, the VTEC does sound much better.. At lunch I took a co-worker for a ride, and didn't get on the gas at all for the first mile or so.. He actually said "I can't believe how quiet it is.." .. Shortly after that I had some open road.. Well, not open enough... Two birds flew in front of the car.. One flew away.. The other I looked for in the radiator.

-Jer
 
ChrisK said:
I agree with others. I would check to see what tires you have and check your alignment. When i first got my NSX it had the 97 rims with stock OEM tires. I felt the car turned in too fast if you can believe that. I was not used to such immediate turn in. Like others said, it should almost feel telepathic. Turn the wheel and you are headed in that direction. Later, I switched to other brands of tires and while I can't really say the steering is slower, it is not the same. For me, the trade off in tire wear was acceptable as the OEM tires wear out really fast. I would suggest you get the OEM tires, get an alignment, and live with it like that at least once. Then you can decide of you want to go back to other brands of tires. To take it one step further you could even get the alignment set back to 91-93 original specs and see how you like it. I never drove with the original 91-93 alignment specs so I can't comment on how it handles, but people hear say it is the ultimate set up if you can live with the tire wear.

Oh, also I too think the stock radio sucks. As for interior quality I differ a bit. I never had a E36 M3, but my regular E36 interior didn't feel as high quality too me.

yes.. I'm not sure how the alignment is set up.. I should look into that soon..

In regards to the turn-in...... My guesses, in order of cause:

  1. sway bar mount
  2. springs
  3. shocks
  4. tires
  5. god smiting me

-Jer
 
Another co-worker needed to see the car, and we went for another little ride..

I am now getting a feel for the car, and first and second feel moderately under control.. The top of third is still uneasy to me, but then again that is a lot of speed to feel at ease..

I now see what everyone says about the dip in 2nd gear.. Rev first, hit second, and the car doesn't reward you with much of a bump.. Maybe I will change the ratios when updating the snap ring stuff.. :)

-Jer
 
I would start by getting rid of the Nitto tires (no well suited for a supercar like the NSX IMO). Get a set of OEM Yokos! You will also want to get the car alligned correctly. Then go out and drive the car again for the first time.

I bet a 12 pack of St. Louis Bud beer that you will write back and say "OMG - this is 100x better then it was and what I thought a car could feel like!"

:)

There are cars that go fast, there are cars that make you look good, and there are cars that make you feel good. I have never been rolling in another car that did all 3 as well as the NSX for less then 3x the price!

Sure there are cars that go faster, look better, and / or are very rewarding to drive. Just none that I have been in that even come close to doing all 3 as well simultaniously.

Enjoy your ride and welcome!
 
Jerry,

Which tires are on the car now?? Based on your desription of the steering "setup time" I am thinking they are not the OEM Yoko tires. Been there, done that:).

Enjoy,
LarryB
 
jdc1687 said:
* Tires.. It has a tire i'm not that familiar with: Nitto, and I don't know the model. They seem pretty good.. I don't think the float is attributed to this..



-Jer

More than likey it is the Nitto NT555. It is a pretty good tire, but you'd be surprised at how much better the car feels with the OEM tire. Nitto tires are good for the masses, but not good for sports cars IMHO. If you have the Nitto NT450, I would say take those pieces of crap off right now before you kill yourself especially in the rain. Obviously I'm being a bit dramatic, but I had those on my Legend once and it didn't handle all too well in dry and handled very poorly in the rain. I could imagine how bad they would be on a mid engine RWD car.
 
Congrats on the NSX!! As a fellow NSX owner, and ex-E36 M3 owner, I know how you feel about each car. Trust me, the NSX will grow on you in a positive way. :)
 
ChrisK said:
More than likey it is the Nitto NT555. It is a pretty good tire, but you'd be surprised at how much better the car feels with the OEM tire. Nitto tires are good for the masses, but not good for sports cars IMHO. If you have the Nitto NT450, I would say take those pieces of crap off right now before you kill yourself especially in the rain. Obviously I'm being a bit dramatic, but I had those on my Legend once and it didn't handle all too well in dry and handled very poorly in the rain. I could imagine how bad they would be on a mid engine RWD car.
ditto on the nitto's. had them on my porsche 911 sc. took them off after a thousand miles. i was afraid i was going to leave this earth backwards in the rain.
 
Hello, Jer,

I am also from Boston and there are quite a few NSX owners around the area. If you want to meet up and go for a drive, let us know.

I also had an E36 M3 (1997) and tracked both NSX and M3, so I am familiar with the difference between the two.

Looking forward to seeing you in the near future. If you have any questions, please let me know (you can PM or email me). Also, Mitch at Mechanics Direct is a great person for you to get your car checked out for maintenances or any repair.

-Yong
 
TigerNSX said:
Hello, Jer,

I am also from Boston and there are quite a few NSX owners around the area. If you want to meet up and go for a drive, let us know.

I also had an E36 M3 (1997) and tracked both NSX and M3, so I am familiar with the difference between the two.

Looking forward to seeing you in the near future. If you have any questions, please let me know (you can PM or email me). Also, Mitch at Mechanics Direct is a great person for you to get your car checked out for maintenances or any repair.

-Yong

Yong,

I have lived in/around Boston for three years, and I have only seen three NSX's!! One Black one going down Saint Paul St. in Brookline, last fall.. Then, the day I sent the deposit on my 91 I saw an NA2 silver, then later that night I saw BostonNSX's red one down by Fenway. I figured seeing two in one day was a sign :)

Getting together for a ride would be good fun.. How do you guys coordinate the drives? let me know...

My parking is a bit odd... I have a place in Brookline(near Coolidge Corner) that has a parking spot, and my M3 lives there.. I also have a good friend that lives in Wilmington, and my NSX is going to stay up there. I'm up there all the time, so the car will still see the street quite a bit..

-Jer
 
"This was my first time driving an NSX",

You should drive other NSX's for a point of reference.
I am no expert, but have driven 8 (91-94's)
in the past few months.
They were not all the same. Have driven 2 with
good tires, aftermarket shocks, sway bars & Eibach springs.
IMO big improvement over a 100% stock car.
2nd place were lo mi. car's that were 100% stock
with orig OEM tires and alignment set in the 91 tire wearing spec's.
Others with non OEM tires, old OEM shocks, and alignments
to save tire's from wearing felt as you described.
But again, there are folks here with much more knowledge
than I.
 
Any pics :smile:

I had a 96M3 and traded it for the 03 evo when they first arrive. I was shocked that the evo was better in every way performance wise. Powershifting should not be a problem since i have not hear gear grind. Perhaps they make some changes for 96 trans besides the gearing:confused:
 
jdc1687 said:
My size 12 sneakers were rather annoyed to be jammed into the small footwell,

Congrats JDC....One thing to check too is the footwell. Take a look at the plastic cover overhang that covers the steering wheel. There are 3 holes that the cover should go into..if they dont, the cover will hang down and it will feel VERY cramped. The cover should have 3 protruding "fingers" that go into the holes, but on a 91 they maybe broken. Just find something to re-tie the cover to the holes and that should give you much more room...

Hope that helps!!
 
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