Japanese cost of new NSX(and other inquiries)

[Devilish]

I am currently considering purchasing an NSX. I was wanting to double check on the price of them in Japan. I was curious as to whether they are marked up an insane amount for the American market. The main point in doing this is to see how much car I really get for the money.

It is my understanding that the NSX is a great handling, great looking, and long lasting sportscar. I have heard from several sources that it is one of the most well sorted sports cars ever to come out of Japan. Just what justification is there for the price of the NSX? Several cars at lower cost have many of the trumpeted performance advantages that the NSX does; unless I am mistaken.

What I am looking for are non-biased opinions from true CAR enthusiasts. Those that owe there blind and undying love to the NSX need not reply.

 

[Devilish]

I actually expected a post by now. I hope I didnt piss anyone off or anything, I am not trying to flame the car at all. I am just curious of why the car costs so much. Thats all.

 

[schuey1010]

If I were you, I would save some money and get the new Corvette. With over 400 HP for about $50K, that is probably a better deal anyway.

 

[nsxtasy]

When new, they sell for about the same prices in Japan as in the United States.

The way you ask your question, you seem to be criticizing the NSX. (Which is fairly common among those who judge cars only by the number of horsepower and not by the quality or handling or other subjective characteristics.) Based on your question, you also seem to have done zero research about the NSX. (This site has a great FAQ and a search of previous topics on the forums turns up a lot of information as well.) I think these are the reasons why you are not getting more responses.

If you want to know why it costs as much as it does, do some research, and then try test driving one.

 

[satan_srv]

go test drive one then come back

 

[RyRy210]

Let's put it this way, autoweek just did a segment on the speed channel on the NSX, not one negative comment. The reviewer even thought the price was justified.

This is not a bad read either:

http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Media/2002-09-01-sundaytimes.jpg

There are some things you have to think about when you ask this type of question. When I decided to clunk what you called an "insane" price for an NSX, before biting the bullet I decided to test drive everything in that "insane" price range.

Obviously you know what I chose at the end of the day, and it was worth every penny.

Most people that often criticize the NSX are just here to flame us, or have never driven the car at all. There are a lot of cars that look good on paper, but extremely poor in execution. The NSX is the opposite, it might not look good on paper, but it'll definitely impress after you take it on a spin. It's simply amazing.

 

[Devilish]

Apologies and explainations

Maybe I should have clarified further. I am not shopping for a new NSX. I am shopping for a used one. My question on the inflation was to see if they were 80k because of importation. Unfortunately, 80k for an enlisted member of the US military is an "insane" price.

Other cars in my price range meet or beat most or all of the performance characteristics of the car. I was merely asking if the quality assurance, engineering, and the total driving experience justified the price. More specifically, if it justified buying a used car at the same price I could have a new one of similar performance.

As it now stands it is dead even between getting a used NSX with high miles, and getting a new RX-8. Both would be dreams for me, and i would be thrilled to have either car. I never meant to come off in a negative way about it. I have done research, including reading most of the FAQ link at the top of the page; and I do realise WHY it costs so much. What I am asking is, if I am not in a position to buy an 80k car, is a used NSX a valid contender in a price range under 40k?

From my research, the RX8 matches almost all performance aspects of the NSX, and with proper care will likely match the longevity; though certainly not the resale. I have always been a fan of the NSX, and unfortunately I do not have the chance to drive one. I am sure that a test drive in an NSX would answer most of my questions. I apologize for taking the back door on this inquiry, and appreciate your input.

The only reason I am not going to search endlessly until I piece together the answer to this question is that I am in the market NOW. I was set to buy the 8, and then was informed of the possibility of owning a used NSX. My decision is a bit time sensitive, and I willing attempted to take the easy way about it. Again i apologize, but if anyone would be kind enough to explain the pros and cons for me, I would be grateful. It would be an honor to become an owning member here on this board.

(P.S) For all who wonder I am not a HP junkie.....I have had my high Hp/Torque smallblock, I have moved on to more complete driving experiences. So no, I will not be buying a new Corvette.

 

[PHOEN$X]

What factors are important to you? Without knowing that it's like asking a stranger whether they prefer chocolate or vanilla.

Personally, I would take a used NSX over a RX-8 any day. Hell, I'd take a 350Z over a RX-8. No disrespect to RX-8 enthusiasts, but it just doesn't do it for me in the looks dept. Now if it looked like the NSX, it would be a serious contender.

I chose the NSX because of its exotic beauty and every day reliability. Nothing else comes close when you consider those as your criteria, IMO.

 

[Devilish]

What factors are important to you? Without knowing that it's like asking a stranger whether they prefer chocolate or vanilla.

Personally, I would take a used NSX over a RX-8 any day. Hell, I'd take a 350Z over a RX-8. No disrespect to RX-8 enthusiasts, but it just doesn't do it for me in the looks dept. Now if it looked like the NSX, it would be a serious contender.

I chose the NSX because of its exotic beauty and every day reliability. Nothing else comes close when you consider those as your criteria, IMO.

Personally, the 350 just doesnt do it for me in the looks department. It has, how do I say this....a ghetto booty? Not to mention, it has one of the most bland interiors I have ever seen. Besides, looks are an object of opinion, and everyone is entitled to thiers. The handling isnt near as good as the 8, and I really dont like to have my front tires feathering on me on a long highway cruise. As you may know, Nissan has a lawsuit filed because of the faulty front suspension setup on the 350. The only real advantage the 350 has is straight line acceleration. Evo and WRX are juiced up family sedans, and a Mustang Cobra is, well, a Ford car. The QC is nothing like their trucks.

The factors that are important to me in descending priority are:
~Handling
~Enough power to take advantage of the handling
~Reliability
~An exotic or uncommon appearance
~Novelty, I dont like to drive the same car as half my home state.

Obviously, both of the cars I am considering excel in all these fields (jury is out on the 8's reliability, but NA rotaries commonly break 150k) This is where my dilemma arises.

 

[RyRy210]

From my research, the RX8 matches almost all performance aspects of the NSX, and with proper care will likely match the longevity; though certainly not the resale.

To be blunt, this statement right here just shows that you didn't really do much research, and didn't read any of the comments other NSX owners have posted.

I have driven an RX8, and all I can say its pretty good for the money, but that's all it has going for it.

If price is an issue, you might also want to look at the cost of maintaining an NSX, especially used. Granted the NSX is reliable, but you still have to consider the cost of doing normal routine service which I imagine will be more than an RX8.

There is something wrong when someone goes on an NSX board to ask whether an RX8 is an equivalent to a used NSX.

You've seen this video right?

http://www.bestmotoringvideo.com/image/buy_09_large.jpg

The RX8 performed extremely poorly.

The factors that are important to me in descending priority are:
~Handling
~Enough power to take advantage of the handling
~Reliability
~An exotic or uncommon appearance
~Novelty, I dont like to drive the same car as half my home state.

Obviously, both of the cars I am considering excel in all these fields (jury is out on the 8's reliability, but NA rotaries commonly break 150k) This is where my dilemma arises.

I would say the NSX fits all of this. The RX8 fits the first 2 well I guess, and I disagree on your assessment on the RX8's reliabiliy. To me its still an unknown. It's still too early to tell. Your last 2 factors don't fit the RX8 too well either. When I drove the RX8, it was my friend's, but he told me the car was not selling because most people favor the Z. It shows on the road. There are a lot more Zs than 8s for a reason. The only reason you are not seeing that many 8s is that the demand is just not as high for this car, and most of them are still sitting at the dealership waiting for an owner to take it home.

The only new car that fits your 5 factors IMHO is the S2000. There might be alot on the road, but overall production numbers is pretty low compared to the competition. Pretty soon those RX8s will make it on the road sooner or later. I'm starting to see more and more everday. I won't be surprised that by year end it will be a dime a dozen.

Lastly, you said this was a time sensitive purchase. If you need to decide NOW, then RX8. Finding a good used NSX is not an easy task. Finding a poorly maintained one that just fits your price range is asking for trouble.

No flame intended. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Devilish]

When did I ask if they were equal? I KNOW they are very close. The driving experience is all I lack. As far as the Z is concerned, its a piece of rushed through QA junk. They couldnt even get the front suspension right. Nissan will be lucky to be able to make Pathfinders after that lawsuit goes through.........

At the risk of soundling like a bench racer, here are the stats that my "lack of research" found:

RX-8 skidpad rating- .90
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/features/0305scc_mazdarx8/index.html
NSX skidpad as reported on this very site- .92/.93 (93-94 models) http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Technical/performancenums.htm

RX-8 quarter mile time- 14.5 as reported by every major reviewer, look around

NSX quarter mile- 13.9-14.2 same years and reference as above

NSX- 0-60- 5.6 again from this site.

RX-8 0-60- 5.9 seconds http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=496&page_number=4&preview= Page 4

NSX 60-0- 117ft again using this site

RX-8 60-0- 114ft http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/features/0305scc_mazdarx8/index.html
NSX weight distribution- 42/58 http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Technical/GeneralSpecs.htm

RX-8 weight distribution- 50/50 as reported by Mazda

NSX coefficient of drag- .32 http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Technical/GeneralSpecs.htm

RX-8 coefficient of drag- .31 as reported by the .pdf on Mazda's homepage
(For those who don't know, lower coefficient is better.)

I could continue, but I think you get the point. The NSX is about a half second faster, and the handling difference is so minute that most drivers couldnt take either car that far, especially in daily driving. So yes, practical performance of the cars is almost equal. That was never a question in my mind.

From the look of your signature it seems you also have the distinct pleasure of driving an NSX-T, which unfortunately I will not be having. I know the changes are minute to the 97+ but it is still more capable that what I will be able to get my hands on. Also, feel free to ask the Second Generation forum at www.rx7club.com how many of their NA rotaries have crossed the 150K mark without major problems. You will be surprised at the answer. The RENESIS in the RX-8 is the same engine, with several million more dollars in R&D.....so yes, with proper care, I believe it can go that long or longer.

You may also be surprised to learn that they have already sold more RX-8s than they ever produced the third generation (FD3S) RX-7. The FD had a ten year run.....

If anyone else would like to crash my thread with meaningless drivel about cars I am not considering, please don't. I have done my research, and I am looking for non-biased opinions....I am sure there are a few real drivers with real opinons out there. I need impressions of the entire feel of the car, and if its worth giving up a warranty to own one. This is especially important since I will have no real proof of the driving habits of the previous owner.

Time sensitive decisions dont necessarily mean tomorrow, although they may sell my 8 out from under me if I wait too long, as I have no claim to it, just a quote.

Again, thanks for your time, and patience. I am sure I am not the only one who would appreciate this thread not turning into a flame war, so please don't spark that change.

 

[NetViper]

RX8 and NSX close? You are smoking some serious dope man. Go drive both and then come back. The RX8 is one of the most dissapointing driving experiences ever. No TQ at all.

 

[nsxtasy]

At the risk of soundling like a bench racer, here are the stats that my "lack of research" found

I don't know where you got your numbers, but they're just plain WRONG. It's as though you went out of your way to look for the WORST results you could find for the NSX, and used them as your comparison for the RX-8. And you wonder why it sounds like YOU are trying to start a flame war?

RX-8 skidpad rating- .90
NSX skidpad as reported on this very site- .92/.93 (93-94 models)

I won't comment on that one, just because skidpad numbers are not indicative of anything that matters.

RX-8 quarter mile time- 14.5 as reported by every major reviewer, look around

NSX quarter mile- 13.9-14.2 same years and reference as above

WRONG. The "consensus" figures in the magazine articles are clustered around 13.7-13.8:

Motor Trend 12/90 13.7
Car and Driver 9/90 13.8

There are a few tests that are faster, a few that are slower, but these are the most common results for the '91-94 NSX Coupe.

NSX- 0-60- 5.6 again from this site.

WRONG. The "consensus" figures for the '91-94 are 5.2-5.4:

Car and Driver 9/90 5.2
AutoWeek 8/26/91 5.3
Motor Trend 12/90 5.4

However, a car is a lot more than its performance numbers. And forgetting the numbers, you are absolutely correct: you DO sound like a bench racer. You are comparing cars that you have never even driven. Anyone who has driven both a fair amount - not just around the block - will tell you that these two cars aren't even in the same ballpark. That's no big insult to the RX-8; it's a nice sporty coupe. But it's no NSX. Not even close.

Drive the car.
Drive the car.
Drive the car.
Then ask questions.

 

[mlambert890]

Some day I have to take some time off and do a research project to understand what strange psychological need compells people to seek out those with interests opposite their own and argue with them endlessly.

 

[PHOEN$X]

Some day I have to take some time off and do a research project to understand what strange psychological need compells people to seek out those with interests opposite their own and argue with them endlessly.

Please let me know of your findings!

Honestly, in nearly two years on this forum I have not seen anyone else seriously consider the RX-8 as a viable alternative to owning the NSX. So it's little wonder that no one has posted any first hand experience with the RX-8. And I highly doubt the OP is going to get the unbiased comparo that he's looking for on here.

 

[Modernceo]

Re: Apologies and explainations

From my research, the RX8 matches almost all performance aspects of the NSX, and with proper care will likely match the longevity; though certainly not the resale. I have always been a fan of the NSX, and unfortunately I do not have the chance to drive one. I am sure that a test drive in an NSX would answer most of my questions. I apologize for taking the back door on this inquiry, and appreciate your input.
[/B]

The newer RX-8's are pathetic in terms of performance and does not match the NSX at all in regards to performance. I can tell you that firsthand as I have raced a few and the results were poor.

I havent driven one firsthand, but I can only hope that the RX8 has some sort of handling characteristics to make up for its horrible performance.

 

[Devilish]

I don't know where you got your numbers, but they're just plain WRONG. It's as though you went out of your way to look for the WORST results you could find for the NSX, and used them as your comparison for the RX-8.



WRONG. The "consensus" figures in the magazine articles are clustered around 13.7-13.8:


Motor Trend 12/90 13.7
Car and Driver 9/90 13.8

There are a few tests that are faster, a few that are slower, but these are the most common results for the '91-94 NSX Coupe.

WRONG. The "consensus" figures for the '91-94 are 5.2-5.4:

Car and Driver 9/90 5.2
AutoWeek 8/26/91 5.3
Motor Trend 12/90 5.4



However, a car is a lot more than its performance numbers. And forgetting the numbers, you are absolutely correct: you DO sound like a bench racer. You are comparing cars that you have never even driven. Anyone who has driven both a fair amount - not just around the block - will tell you that these two cars aren't even in the same ballpark. That's no big insult to the RX-8; it's a nice sporty coupe. But it's no NSX. Not even close.

Drive the car.
Drive the car.
Drive the car.
Then ask questions.

Well, if you are wondering where I got them...follow the links. You'll find them to be the heralded FAQ I was instructed to read. Maybe you ought to contact the site admins and let him know he needs to update his performance section. I also feel compelled to remind you that this is for a 93/94, as reported by this very website. So if I have been mislead, its definately not MY fault. Also, I am sure that organizations that test cars waste thier time on meaningless performance specs, so you're probably right; skidpad ratings dont mean anything. I mean, honestly, who needs traction around a turn? If I could find a reliable link to slalom results for the model year NSX's I was considering, I would have put those in there. Although, I would have been wasting my time, because thats a BS performace test too, right? FYI the 8 has performed as high as 77MPH on the slalom.....not even the RX-7 has posted such a high speed. The norm seems to be just over 70 MPH. Driver skill seems to be the limiting factor on those runs.

I am certain that the purpose of me posting those performance numbers is beyond the comprehension of your elitist mindset, and you automatically assume I am trying to downgrade your car's performance......WRONG. Several people jumped in this thread and immediately assumed that I didnt do any research, and was just like "Hey, and NSX, cool, LOL!!111" WRONG. I dont spend 40k without doing research.

I have driven the RX-8 plenty...I would say almost two hundred miles. Unfortunately, most people dont let you take a good spirited drive in thier used NSX that they are trying to sell; especially if you are 21 years old. So no, I don't have the privilige of just hopping in one for a couple good runs and comparing the cars....thats where you guys come in. The funny thing is, on the RX-8 forums, I am getting the exact opposite reaction. Imagine that. There is even a guy that sold his 92 NSX and bought an RX-8, granted the backseats may have had a lot to do with it. By his testimony, unless you are hot rodding the car, or using it for track use, you will never know much difference. He said the RX-8 handles as well, rides better, and moves almost as quick. After driving an NSX for eight years, he prefers the interior fit and finish of the 8. He did state that the NSX is much more forgiving with over-revving the gas in a turn, that it has a definate acceleration advantage. Not to mention the NSX is a "supercar" and the 8 is just a Mazda in most people's eyes. The NSX needed little more than preventative maintenance, and his 8 with 13000 miles has not either.

Don't question my reasoning, because it IS sound. I have done my research, and it really seems that the 8 will win due to the warranty and mileage issues associated with buying a used NSX. This in no way is meant to say the NSX is any less capable, just that in my situation it isnt a feasible alternative since I will likely never or rarely dip into the upper performance level of either car.

I am glad to see that there are so many mature NSX owners out there. It really is a disappointment, I didnt expect to find grown up ricers on a board for such an awesome car.

 

[PHOEN$X]

Enjoy your RX-8.

 

[Devilish]

RX8 and NSX close? You are smoking some serious dope man. Go drive both and then come back. The RX8 is one of the most dissapointing driving experiences ever. No TQ at all.

How much torque does your NSX have at 1000 RPMS? The eight has about 130. It doesnt rise much, but it starts higher than most. Torque really only matters when you are getting the car started moving, HP takes over after that.....You must have drove a different car than any major reviewer I have ever run across, NO ONE has reported being remotely disappointed with the car. Several reviewers were actually pleasantly surprised with the cars driving experience. Take your hot shot mouth to another thread please.

 

[nsxtasy]

There is even a guy that sold his 92 NSX and bought an RX-8, granted the backseats may have had a lot to do with it. By his testimony, unless you are hot rodding the car, or using it for track use, you will never know much difference.

You could say the same thing for an Accord.

Hope you treat the folks on the RX-8 board with the same disdain and hostility you have displayed here.

 

[Devilish]

Please let me know of your findings!

Honestly, in nearly two years on this forum I have not seen anyone else seriously consider the RX-8 as a viable alternative to owning the NSX. So it's little wonder that no one has posted any first hand experience with the RX-8. And I highly doubt the OP is going to get the unbiased comparo that he's looking for on here.

Viable compared to a brand new NSX? Probably not. However, a new one isnt whats being considered here, and I bet 85% of the owners on this board didnt buy an NSX new. Someone has driven both cars, and has VALUABLE insights on the differences.

 

[Devilish]

You could say the same thing for an Accord.

Hope you treat the folks on the RX-8 board with the same disdain and hostility you have displayed here.

You're an idiot.

Hows that for disdain and hostility?

I would like for you to quote where I am being "disdainful" or hostile. Good luck. Right after that you can post all the times I complimented your cars, lets see which list is longer.

 

[Devilish]

Re: Re: Apologies and explainations

The newer RX-8's are pathetic in terms of performance and does not match the NSX at all in regards to performance. I can tell you that firsthand as I have raced a few and the results were poor.

I havent driven one firsthand, but I can only hope that the RX8 has some sort of handling characteristics to make up for its horrible performance.

As opposed to what, the old RX-8's? Do I even need to comment on your intelligence level?

 

[nsxtasy]

How much torque does your NSX have at 1000 RPMS?

Assuming your figure of 130 for the RX-8 is accurate, about 15 percent more than the RX-8:

Torque really only matters when you are getting the car started moving, HP takes over after that.....

Not exactly true. For a good explanation of the relevance of torque and horsepower, click here.

EDIT: Updated obsolete link.

 

[RyRy210]

I could continue, but I think you get the point.

I get your point, but you don’t get ours. You are asking for our opinions and we gave it. Right now it just seems like you don’t like what we are trying to tell you, and trying to convince us that we are wrong. I weighed in your price and time constraints, and thought that the RX8 is better for you based on those factors only.

From the look of your signature it seems you also have the distinct pleasure of driving an NSX-T, which unfortunately I will not be having. I know the changes are minute to the 97+ but it is still more capable that what I will be able to get my hands on.

You say you’ve done your research, but this is another statement that show’s that you haven’t read the FAQs. First off, the car in my sig is a ’95 NSX-T. It is relatively the same as the older coupes except for the T-Top. I own a ’01 NSX-T. The changes are not minute in 97. All the major mechanical changes happened in 97.

Also, feel free to ask the Second Generation forum at www.rx7club.com how many of their NA rotaries have crossed the 150K mark without major problems. You will be surprised at the answer. The RENESIS in the RX-8 is the same engine, with several million more dollars in R&D.....so yes, with proper care, I believe it can go that long or longer.

There will always be problems with cars. The main concept is that how many NSXs relative to the entire NSX population have problems? Not a lot. How many RX8s have problems relative to the entire population? I still feel its too early to tell.

I don’t doubt there are some owners that are still running their original engine, but the problems in the FD3S RX7 are well documented. Opinion is not fact.

Also, I see more contradictions here from your previous posts. You claimed in your previous post that they break down after 150K. Now you claim you know of many that can go beyond that mark with no problems.

You may also be surprised to learn that they have already sold more RX-8s than they ever produced the third generation (FD3S) RX-7. The FD had a ten year run.....

Okay, another contradiction and demonstration of your lack of research. They sold more RX8s already, so out with the last 2 factors on your list. The FD did not have a 10 year run. Everyone knows that! It was only available from ’93-’95.

http://alecto.bittwiddlers.com/vehicles/rx7-numbers.shtml

If anyone else would like to crash my thread with meaningless drivel about cars I am not considering, please don't. I have done my research, and I am looking for non-biased opinions....I am sure there are a few real drivers with real opinons out there.

Like I said, we already gave it. You just refuse to listen. Get the RX8.