Issues with '92 Manual Tran.

[CaliNSX]

I was test driving a '92 NSX, and I noticed that on hard acceleration there was a slight gyration in the stick while in first gear. I did not feel anything in the stick between 2-5th gears though. Basically, when I really got on the gas, at around 3K rpm I would feel the stick slightly gyrate (kinda wobble) through the shift knob... is that normal? Again it's not like the stick is moving around or anything, but just a slight vibration in the knob....

Thanks!

 

[nsxtasy]

Sounds like the snap ring problem, which you can read about in the Troubleshooting area of the NSX FAQ.

The owner is a fool for trying to sell the car instead of fixing it; he could fix it now for around $2K, or let it go until the whole transmission needs replacing for around $10K.

Run away, run away...

 

[CRX B16B VTEC]

So, nothing should be felt through the gear knob in the first/second gear? I think I feel something in 1st, nothing in 2nd though.

 

[nsxtasy]

So, nothing should be felt through the gear knob in the first/second gear?

It may be slightly notchy, but it should not feel loose. As noted in the FAQ, "The giveaway for snap ring failure is the shifter moving fore and aft in first or second on deceleration or acceleration from slow speed."

 

[CaliNSX]

NSXtasy, the knob does not move fore or aft while in first gear - there is only a slight vibration in the knob (not visible, you can only tell if you grip the knob), and only in first gear, and then only from 3k rpm and upward. I just wanted to see if anybody else with a manual transmission and early model NSX felt the same thing while in first gear?

Of course, I'll have to check to see if it falls in the snap-ring range when I have it checked out...

 

[nsxtasy]

NSXtasy, the knob does not move fore or aft while in first gear - there is only a slight vibration in the knob (not visible, you can only tell if you grip the knob), and only in first gear, and then only from 3k rpm and upward.

Then it's possible that's just a normal slight vibration - even if the car is in snap ring range. (Your earlier description of a "gyration" sounds different from a slight vibration.)

Of course, I'll have to check to see if it falls in the snap-ring range when I have it checked out...

It probably is - most of the '92 five-speed cars are - but that doesn't mean you need to fix it if it's only a slight vibration.

 

[CaliNSX]

Thanks for the advice... I'm just curious that if it is in the range, then at what point should I have it fixed? I guess I could have it repaired before it breaks and only replace the upper transmisson case, or wait for it to break and replace the whole tranny... Does anybody have any suggestions which way to go?
Also, does anybody here know where I can get the best price if I want to do the work before it breaks... I think the dealer quoted like 800+ for just the part, but of course they said that you have to replace the entire transmission. If I could get a good deal on fixing it then I could work that into the purchase price too...
Then again, like you said, the vibration may just be normal and nothing to worry about...Aghhh - which way to go, which way to go!!

 

[nsxtasy]

at what point should I have it fixed?

If it were my car, I would read about the snap ring problem (sounds like you've done that) so that I would be aware of the symptoms to look for (back and forth motion of the shift lever). If the symptoms show up, I would park it right away and have it fixed. (As long as you don't keep driving it, you can still get away with replacing just the snap ring and case.) Otherwise, I would wait until I needed transmission work (clutch replacement, gearing modification, etc) and do it at that time. Other than that, don't worry about it!

Oh, and if and when you're ready for it... some dealers aren't all that keen about opening up transmissions to work on them. So you might want to take it somewhere that has a lot of NSX experience. I'm not sure who's good in the East Bay where you are, but you're not all that far away from some great NSX service folks - Don at Hilltop in Daly City, Foreign Affair in Santa Clara, or Bruce Pettit at Niello in Sacramento.

 

[Dave Hardy]

If it's anything like the Civic Tranny, and it can't be too different - it's just a laterally mounted 5 speed, then it's an easy DIY to replace a case half if you're willing to get dirty. Check the shim spacing per the Helm and you should be fine.

 

[nsxtasy]

If it's anything like the Civic Tranny, and it can't be too different

If you ever hear a mechanic talking like that, keep in mind that he's telling you how much he DOESN'T know about your car. Run away!

 

[Dave Hardy]

If you ever hear a mechanic talking like that, keep in mind that he's telling you how much he DOESN'T know about your car. Run away!

There's nothing magic here. NSX's aren't put together with mysticism and pixie dust. They are a machine, just like every other car. It will have some things that are unique to it, but it is still just a combination of mechanisms. Trannies are all pretty much the same. Yes, there are differences in synchro design, actuation mechanisms, etc., but in the end they all take an input, direct it through a series of ratios, and give an output. The cases and bearings keep everything happy and in place through this process. It is not magic. Automatics are a bit different just based on the amount of special tools required, but a manual gearbox is very simple for a competant mechanic. Honda gearboxes are even easier than most, because they had the forsight to size everything such that it can't be put together wrong (this is one of those things that may be unique - Civic and Integra boxes are like this, NSX boxes may not be, but I'd guess that they are).

 

[nsxtasy]

There's nothing magic here.

No, not magic; not magic at all. However... In any complex procedure, there are various factors that will make it easy and successful, or, in their absence, difficult or problematic. These include having the right tools (not just hand tools, but, depending on the job, items such as a lift, electronic diagnostic equipment, alignment and measuring rack, etc); having general mechanical/automotive knowledge, having experience at the task at hand, etc. The experience factor tells you where you can take short cuts, and where things can go wrong; knowing these will make the job go quicker, and prevent you from having to do it over again.

Sure, anyone can learn how to service an NSX transmission. But consider this: The experienced NSX mechanics, the ones who have replaced clutches and gears and cases numerous times before, know all the tricks and have all the tools, and still take 8-12 hours to open up the transmission, service it, and put it back together. How long do you think it might take the first time you do it? What is likely to go wrong? And what tools don't you already have for the job? Oh wait, you've never done this before, so you don't know the answers to those questions, either...

 

[Dave Hardy]

A helm will tell you the procedures and required tools for the most part. From there, it's just a matter of using proper mechanics techniques for measureing and such. Not trivial, but not rocket science either. I did make the assumption that anyone who would attempt to DIY tranny work would already have a decent collection of tools.

I absolutely agree - an experienced NSX tech will do it quicker. Note that my first post on the matter said "if you're willing to get your hands dirty." Many people aren't. It is a rare enthusiast that will tear into a project like replacing a tranny case half, but why ridicule those who are?

No offense meant - I've just succeeded at too many things that I was told I couldn't do, to believe it most of the time.

 

[nsxtasy]

It is a rare enthusiast that will tear into a project like replacing a tranny case half, but why ridicule those who are?

I'm not ridiculing those who do their own work. Heck, I respect folks like Larry B and DanO for their experience - but it's precisely because they speak from actual experience, not guesswork. I was criticizing you for claiming that something "can't be too difficult", something that you've obviously never tried and therefore have no experience at all with. When Larry or Dan talk about something, they tell you what the pitfalls are, and what to look out for, and how hard something is, because they've been there and done that. You haven't. We are fortunate to have people here who can tell you which jobs are easy enough for the average DIYer to tackle, and which jobs aren't - based on experience, not on guesswork.

 

[Dave Hardy]

Understandable. Without diving in though, you never get to become an expert. "Can't be too difficult" was an assumption, but a fairly educated one since I've never seen anything on a Honda that I would consider too difficult. I've had a Honda 5 speed apart. I replaced all the bearings, synchros, and 2nd gear in my tranny, in addition to installing the quaife. So it wasn't just pulled out off my ass. Hondas have proven thusfar to be very easy to work on. Regardless, at this point we're not getting anywhere. If I ever pull an NSX tranny apart and get in over my head, you're allowed to say "told you so".

 

[CaliNSX]

Well, one things for sure - I'm not doing this job myself!! If anybody has had snap-ring replacement work done in the East Bay Area of San Francisco - please let me know about your experience.

NSXtacy, I think I'll follow your advice and just keep driving it until I'm positive that there is a snap-ring problem or until I need some transmission work done anyway.

Does anyone know if there are any Acura dealers in the area still willing to give some goodwill for this kind of job??

Thanks!

 

[nsxtasy]

If anybody has had snap-ring replacement work done in the East Bay Area of San Francisco - please let me know about your experience.

I haven't, but... if I lived in the East Bay, I would take it to Don, if and when the need arose. (I'd just avoid doing so during commuting hours, for obvious reasons. )