Is this a SCAM??

[newby]

I had my car up for sale last month, however I've been back and forth on selling it so I took if off the market for now. Well I got this email from some company about one of their clients wanting to buy my car. Here is what it said:


Hello,
I am Gregory Martino, Director of procurement, Alpha Consult, #200 Vancross Ave, Aconna Italy N2L 3G1.

We purchase, Pick-up, Deliver Automobiles for our clients when contracted.At present, we have a client who has indicated interest in your automobile that was advertised on the net.Please we would want to know if it's still availiable and if it is Please Send me:

(i)The final/bottom price of the automobile.
(ii)The mileage on the Odometer
(iii)Recent pictures of the automobile.
(iv)Why you are selling the automobile.
(v)If the automobile has a clear title.
(vi)How long has the automobile been advertised for sale
(vii)Any other detail you may wish to give us.

The above questions are part of our company policy when purchasing automobiles,So don't find them embarrasing to answer. I hope to hear from you soon. Have a splendid day.

Gregory Martino



So I send him the information he requested, however no personal information. He writes me back the following day with this:


Hello
Thanks for the response to our demand. I have notified our client of your final offer and he has instructed us to carry on with the transaction. He said that I should inform you that payment will get to you in a cashier check of US$55,000 which is a refund payment of a cancelled order earlier made by my client.

The order was cancelled because, when our agent went for the pick-up,it was discovered that the car's interior was in a despicable state and this wasn't mentioned during the course of the transaction.

Due to company policy this check has to be made out in this amount to you, because company policy only allows a refund payment on one cashier check, so you are required to deduct cost of your car, $47,900 when payment gets to you and refund balance $7,100 to my client via western union money transfer or moneygram transfer for him to be able to offset shipping charges.

After payment has reached you and balance sent back to him, our agent will come for the pick up and take to a prepaid shipper to be shipped to my customer,while other necessary documents will be sent by you via courier service to my client.Please Confirm this and provide NAME, ADDRESS and PHONE NUMBER for check payment to be delivered to you via courier service.

Thanks.

Greg


I'm not sure what to think. The info he's requesting isn't anything serious (like bank accounts numbers) However, I'm not sure how comfortable I feel about giving out my address and phone number.

Has anyone else had dealing with anything like this? I'm not hard up to sell my car so it might not be worth the headache if there is something more to this. Any input would be helpful.

Thanks guys

 

[Dave Hardy]

Yes, it's a scam. The $55K you get will be fake. The $7100 you send him will be real.

 

[newby]

Yes, it's a scam. The $55K you get will be fake. The $7100 you send him will be real.

Why would I send him $7100 until I know the $55K has cleared through my bank?

 

[Cairo94507]

These jerks should be found and boiled in oil. I too just got an e-mail re a 2001 CL Type S I have for sale on Craig's List. They of course agreed without a problem to the price and wanted to promptly send me a cashier's check.

I acknowledged their e-mail and told them as soon as I received the cashier's check, took it to the bank and it was verified as authentic, cleared and paid, figure 1 week total, I would notify them and they could make any arrangements they wanted to pick-up there car.

All expenses of transport to be paid for and managed by them. Of course, I never heard from them again, World Procurements out of South Africa....I wish the Feds would go after these people and imprison them for 20 years hard labor, chain gang, etc.

This type of rampant fraud is ruining the Internet. I am selling some tires and as much as I hated to, I had to insist on cash $. All because of the possibility of fraudulent cashier's checks. Too bad.

 

[DocL]

Come on!!! How you can not think that this isn't a scam? Tell him to send the check FedEx overnight and then tear it up. This way at least you'll have gotten him to lose some money on the deal.

 

[nsxtasy]

I acknowledged their e-mail and told them as soon as I received the cashier's check, took it to the bank and it was verified as authentic, cleared and paid, figure 1 week total, I would notify them and they could make any arrangements they wanted to pick-up there car.

Warning - Someone here went for the bait, and found that it took several weeks for the cashier's check from abroad to bounce...

 

[jlindy]

A scam just doesn't get anymore obvious than that. Just for grins, is there any way to get funds that could not bounce? I know that money orders and cashiers checks can be faked and ultimately bounce, but if they wired money or sent via Western Union, would that hold up other than sending a briefcase full of cash? I know the scam artists would never do something like that, but was just curious of ways to shake them out a little faster for the not so obvious scams and not the slap you in the face scams like this one.

 

[Edgemts]

If several people took the offer and got the checks, didnt send anything back, then as a group sent them to the FBI etc then Maybe they would do something???? But who knows?
YES ITS A SCAM!!!

 

[nsxtasy]

It is my feeling that the Police/FBI etc would probably have to do a fair amount of "WORK" to get this person/people arrested. Then they would probably not be brought to the US so the investigators wouldnt get credit for the arrest(No promotion), so they are not interested.
VERY FEW public officials are interested in doing the RIGHT thing anymore!

That's funny - I could start from the same assumptions you make and draw a totally different conclusion:

It is my feeling that the Police/FBI etc would probably have to do a fair amount of "WORK" to try to get this person/people arrested. But they would probably not be brought to the US, either because of the extra cost and work involved in a multi-national prosecution, or because of loopholes in extradition laws, for crimes involving relatively minor amounts of money being conned from ignorant victims. So, because this work would not result in prosecutions and imprisonments, public officials in the States give a higher priority to prosecuting criminals here at home, where their efforts are more likely to produce results. Thank GOODNESS public officials are interested in doing the RIGHT thing!

I don't know that this is the case, but that's what I suspect. Regardless, I don't think either one of us knows for sure how priorities are assigned to "white collar crime" by the FBI and by international law enforcement agencies. For all we know, there are agencies pursuing these scam artists, but there are just too many of them out there. Plus, law enforcement agencies have been stretched thin over the past several years by the recent emphasis on preventing terrorism. I wouldn't be so quick to condemn them without extensive inside knowledge of how they do their jobs.

 

[SNDSOUL]

Dont take any cashiers checks. They are easier than money to conterfiet and take over a month to discover they are fake. I know, I lost $6200 in Nov of this year. He used a different scam, but the same fake checks. I went to the bank securities dept. the police,FBI,Secret Service, US Postal(mail fraud), they all said the same thing: Thousands of these crimes are committed every day. Cashiers checks are the most popular way to scam people b/c so many people think they are as good as cash. We will try to catch the crook, but even if we do, dont expect to get your money or your goods back. I'm just screwed!!

 

[Edgemts]

That's funny - I could start from the same assumptions you make and draw a totally different conclusion:

It is my feeling that the Police/FBI etc would probably have to do a fair amount of "WORK" to try to get this person/people arrested. But they would probably not be brought to the US, either because of the extra cost and work involved in a multi-national prosecution, or because of loopholes in extradition laws, for crimes involving relatively minor amounts of money being conned from ignorant victims. So, because this work would not result in prosecutions and imprisonments, public officials in the States give a higher priority to prosecuting criminals here at home, where their efforts are more likely to produce results. Thank GOODNESS public officials are interested in doing the RIGHT thing!

I don't know that this is the case, but that's what I suspect. Regardless, I don't think either one of us knows for sure how priorities are assigned to "white collar crime" by the FBI and by international law enforcement agencies. For all we know, there are agencies pursuing these scam artists, but there are just too many of them out there. Plus, law enforcement agencies have been stretched thin over the past several years by the recent emphasis on preventing terrorism. I wouldn't be so quick to condemn them without extensive inside knowledge of how they do their jobs.

I can only hope that is the case, In my experience its not, I know several FBI/secret service personel who are looking for other jobs because they want to do the right thing but their hands are tied. Look at the local level, most police agencies are not interesting in correcting problems, drug sources, crime rings, etc. They arrest the users but seldom do the work to take it further. Look at Radar traps- I know several State and local P. that hate doing radar traps beacause they know its NOT doing the RIGHT thing, It generates money at the Tax payers additional expense. Targeting unsafe driving/ driver ed. etc. would help our economy, just not the local police departments budget at first.
Anyways, yes I am JADED by the lack of results from our Public Officials, and from what I see its not getting better. :frown:
JMO

 

[hlweyl]

I've received several offers since putting my car on autotrader. I always have doubts when the email says "my client is interested in your car". I assume this means "we are interested in scamming you."

So I ask for the name and address of their business, their phone number, and when they request that I cease negotiations with other prospective buyers, I ask for a $2000 non-refundable deposit. For some reason, they never respond to this... oh well.

 

[nsxtasy]

I always have doubts when the email says "my client is interested in your car". I assume this means "we are interested in scamming you."

Another tip-off is when the inquiry comes from Europe and the car is in North America. I'm not saying that there are NEVER reasons to ship cars between continents, but the process is so expensive and time-consuming, and the availability of the NSX on both continents is adequate, so that there is rarely any reason to purchase from overseas. Unless you're interested in scamming.

So I ask for the name and address of their business, their phone number, and when they request that I cease negotiations with other prospective buyers, I ask for a $2000 non-refundable deposit.

Good strategy.

 

[hlweyl]

Here's one of the emails I have received recently, this is after I responded that the car is still available:

"Hello David

My client was very glad that your car is still available. He can't wait to see the car parked in his garage. Send pics (interior and exterior) for my client viewing. I will also like you to be aware that i am fully interested and i will be happy if you will keep your car for my client cause i believe in no time the deal will be finalised if only you will stop all other negotiation with other buyers and consider the car sold to my client. You have to understand that i am trying to avoid any further delay in this purchase because i don't have time to waste for the car is meant for my client's wife who is about to give birth to a new baby and the car should be delivered to her before the child's delivery. So i intend to complete it with no delay and i am asking for your assistance to expedite the transaction in a way that will get it finished before schedule.
Also i will like to be informed on the condition of the car including how many times it had accident, how many times the oil have been changed, engine and body condition, etc.
However i will like to know your bottom price for onward transaction."

Sounds like BS to me.

 

[JCRowan]

Yes this is a scam. I personally know of a guy who sold his car this way and here is what happened. The cashiers check was bogus and the car got shipped, so not only was he out the money he was out the car as well. I would tell this guy to take a hike. You can do a search on the web and see that this is a fairly common scam that is going on at the moment.

 

[Forums Nazi]

This scam has been popping up a lot. Do a search on all topics using the phrase "cashier's check" and you'll get two pages of topics, and roughly half of them discuss this scam, in one form or another. Here is a previous topic in which someone received a cashier's check from a scammer and deposited it into his account.

 

[drew]

I bet you could sell the check on ebay for a few bucks, so go ahead and have him send it to you. You know a "Real Genunine Scam Nigerian check...etc... No really, this is a Genuine Fake"

I'm sure there are lot of folks that would like to have a real "fake" so they can teach seminars and/or do research on it.

Besides: it will take his time and money. Make sure he overnights it too! Put check in clear plastic, paper can be easily printed with ninhydrin....maybe somebody is doing analysis on how many people are involved in such things.

Drew

 

[newby]

I just got off the phone with a buddy of mine who had the same scam pulled on him when selling his Jeep Wrangler. Of course the guy never sent the money because my friend insisted on more information about the company.

Here is the reply I sent the guy this morning.....

Mr. Martino

I appreciate you getting back to me so quickly. I am a bit hesitant about this transaction. I work in the "Network/Internet Fraud Investigations Unit" for the local Sheriff's Department. We've investigated a few online scams recently that have left a number of people screwed over. That is why I am cautious when it comes to online deals.

I see you have a Yahoo email account. We have arrangements with MSN (Hotmail) and Yahoo (email) to collect information such as IP addresses and frozen email files from their subscribers. As long as everything checks out I will send you the information you requested.

Could you email the company's name and the city you work out of (where your network connection is located). That will save me a couple hours of time in verifying your IP address.

I appreciate your patience and assistance in this matter. I look forward to doing business with you.


I haven't heard back from him yet, but I'll be interested in his response.

- thanks guys for the feedback

 

[DocL]

...I haven't heard back from him yet, but I'll be interested in his response.

- thanks guys for the feedback

Of course you won't hear back from him. You're not playing the game by his rules. I would string him along by his rules and get the check sent. When he becomes irritated that you have the money and he doesn't have the car, let him call the police. Just make sure you don't deposit it in your account. If you knowlingy deposit a fake check you may be charged with fraud. In the end, this is just a silly game that will net you nothing.

-Good Luck.

 

[hlweyl]

Perhaps to confirm the identity of the prospective buyer, we should ask for a picture for identification. Not just any picture as it could be a fake, but maybe a picture like this:

Gotta love those www.419eater.com stories!

 

[SNDSOUL]

Working with my local authorities to catch some of these crooks, I just recieved a fake cashiers check for $90000!!! Man, I hope I get this guy.

 

[nsxtasy]

Working with my local authorities to catch some of these crooks

Kudos to you for doing so!!!

 

[hlweyl]

The lastest in the saga, really SCAMerific if you ask me.

"My client has finally accepted the price. he wants you to make
sure that everything is ok with the car. Here is the payment
status which you will confirm before we can continue.....
However,My client made out a certified cashiers check of($48,000)
before he travelled to japan on a business trip,for a previous car
and its shipment charges etc,but it was unfortunately sold. The
amount on the check he deposited for the car is bigger than what
should be paid to you now, so the check is now meant for the total
expenses which includes the purchase of your car,the pick up of the
car from its present location and the shipping charges/other
necessary shipping arrangements. However he has instructed us to
carry on with this transaction. So you're required to deduct the
cost of your car ($41,500)and send the balance of($6,500) to my
client via western union money transfer to enable him offsett
shipping charges/arrangements.once the transaction is concluded,
My agent will be coming for the pick up of the car from itspresent
location, on an open vehicle and then drive to a pre paid shipper
for shipment,and also conclude other necessary shipping arrangements.
so you dont have to bother yourself about the pick up and shipping
arrangements,while title papers and other necessary documets will be
sent by you via fedex courier to my customer.

Please Confirm this and provide name,address and phone
number for check payment to be delivered to you via
fedex courier .
Thanks and God bless"

 

[Aiken Drum]

I notice with this particular scam that the sendback is always in the $7k range. They must have worked this out as the sweet spot between maximum gain and minimum law enforcement.

 

[nsxtasy]

I notice with this particular scam that the sendback is always in the $7k range. They must have worked this out as the sweet spot between maximum gain and minimum law enforcement.

Yes, I'm sure. Also keep in mind that federal law imposes additional reporting requirements for transactions of $10K and up...