Is Going Green so bad?

[drmanny3]

A lot of folks here are turned off by not having a big bad internal combustion engine behind them. I mean come on an electric motor at each wheel...what are those folks thinking? We are entering a new age. Take a look at what is happening at ALMS with 100% electric vehicles. I mean really if Hans Solo landed his fighter on your front lawn are you telling me if he said take it for a spin you would say hell no I like my fossil fuel too much. Really! I think Honda is ahead again. We just don't appreciate it yet.
Manny

http://www.americanlemans.com/primary1.php?cat=news|16459

 

[HBui39]

Green would be better if it wasn't a scapegoat against automobiles. The air exiting a modern internal combustion engine is cleaner than the air that goes into it. The whole going electric to lessen dependency on oil is bull. EVERYTHING comes from oil... the phone/ computer you are using right now to read this came from oil...

As far as automobile applications go, nothing wrong with it if it works. Electric power is great in its linearity, but you use it up and you need to replenish it somehow. Performance applications do not work... yet. Make it work and I doubt people will hate it so much. KERS is being used by F1 and quite effectively so... granted it only lasts for 6 second bursts with about one per lap, but it is a practical performance application.

 

[drmanny3]

Let me think about that........So you are saying that with new cars today Suicide by breathing the exhaust is out. Wow that will certainly mess with a lot of folks plans. I have a 2006 Prius that puts out 80% fewer emissions but I don't think you will last too long sucking that "Clean" air. Lets face it sucking on the oil tit has not done much to save lives all over the world. But I know change is really really hard for some folks.

 

[ANYTIME]

The fundamental question remains unanswered: do they really produce fewer emissions when you take into account that they run on electricity produced, in large part, through the burning of fossil fuels?

There is certainly a general assumption that electric cars are "cleaner" than petrol/diesel/hybrid cars, electric cars cannot claim to be "emissions free" if they are powered from an energy grid supplied by power stations burning coal or gas

 

[docjohn]

correct,forget the car,think about the earth,total carbon in and out.the greenest car would be total solar,or a new technology as of yet untapped,like magnetic field amplification.Remember the earth is a giant magnet.

 

[HBui39]

yet, solar panels, the car, the battery are all made out of oil products... which have to be refined, which produces a lot of pollution. we are so dependent on oil, we don't even realize it. everything you use in your daily life has something to do with oil. even if its not made of oil or oil by products or in a container made of oil by products, you have to consider the fuel required to transport it. i am all for going green, but our society is not condusive to it making any difference. while i am sure some people have good intentions, the whole green movement is just another way for people to make a buck.

 

[docjohn]

yet, solar panels, the car, the battery are all made out of oil products... which have to be refined, which produces a lot of pollution. we are so dependent on oil, we don't even realize it. everything you use in your daily life has something to do with oil. even if its not made of oil or oil by products or in a container made of oil by products, you have to consider the fuel required to transport it. i am all for going green, but our society is not condusive to it making any difference. while i am sure some people have good intentions, the whole green movement is just another way for people to make a buck.

true but as greenies would point out, better for mother earth to use a cup of oil once on a solor panel, than 12 barrels of oil per car per year.

 

[areout]

unless all power plants in the world are nuclear/solar/wind/geothermal these cars are NOT green, at all...

but it does make sense to burn 50% more oil in some uninhabitated area for the same power electric cars use in city downtowns..

 

[HBui39]

true but as greenies would point out, better for mother earth to use a cup of oil once on a solor panel, than 12 barrels of oil per car per year.

but plastic is a byproduct of the oil refining process. if they refined oil and we did not use the gasoline, guess how much plastic would cost. lol. being green then depends on continued oil consumption by others, thus going green only makes you feel better. greenies will say anything to push their agenda.

oh and to answer the whole suicide thing, it will still kill you because of the fact you need oxygen to live... but environmentally, it is cleaner... at least in LA.

 

[Colin]

Nothing stated so far suggests this will be a plug-in hybrid. If so, the "how can it be green if the electricity used to charge it comes from burning coal" argument wouldn't apply. All of the energy would be generated by scavenging kinetic energy and not from the grid.

 

[drmanny3]

Hey I don't want to rain on anyone's parade. Science is not evil as many people might think. It is actually smart to possess critical thinking capability. An electric vehicle depends on electricity. True. Electricity in California and Texas (ugh) is cleaner than those States that depend upon Coal as a primary fuel for the generation of electricity. True. Even in those states where electricity is generated by coal, electric vehicles produce less emissions than conventional internal combustion engined cars and trucks. True. Sorry to upset those of you who think otherwise. I guess it is like Climate Change. You can believe it is not happening, you can suggest that it is a conspiracy, but nothing escapes the facts.

Having said that I can tell you that my 2001 NSX-T that has a comptech SC at 5 lbs gets approximately 14 to 24 mpg. On average at $4.00 per gallon it costs me about $0.25 per mile for fuel. My Prius gets 40 mpg to 44 mpg and at $3.75 per gallon costs me about $0.09 per mile. My 2011 Nissan Leaf all electric gets about 75 miles on a charge based upon freeway driving and a little bit of street driving. It has a 24kWh battery that requires 24kW of power to charge. I am charging the car at night (automatically) from midnight to 6 AM. Southern California Edison SCE charges me $0.10 kWh. Therefore it costs me $2.40 per fill up. Take the reasonable 75 miles driving range and do the math (remember science) and you get $0.03 per mile.

Think about it.... It is not rocket science to understand this stuff. You can argue out of ignorance all you want but it will not change the reality. To make matters even more striking consider that I have Solar Panels on my roof. I get paid about $0.56 kWh when I generate during the day (this is when the electric grid is producing at its max). During about 5 months of the year my production exceeds my consumption. Comparing last year when I did not have the Nissan Leaf with this year will still net me a reduction in my overall electricity used. So in other words I am actually getting my car charged for free for the most part. Something most people don't realize is that utility companies have excess electricity with nothing to do with it during the night. They can try and store it by pumping water into a reservoir then during the day use it to drive turbines (not real efficient), or they can send it elsewhere (AC does not travel well over long distances), or they can use it for charging cars. Having said this, I still love my NSX. However, I also realize that I am contributing to the problem.

I remember back when I worked for Atlantic Richfield (BP to most of you), we knew that there was sufficient oil (Total in the World) to get us through to about 2035 to 2045 before it becomes a no go scenario. Between now and then we need to adapt and develop as many alternative forms of energy that will take us into the mid century and beyond. If you don't understand this you have your head in the sand. So rather than expound in what you don't really know to be factual we should all be asking what more can be done and how do we get there. Now of course I won't be here when this milestone comes about, but many of your children will be. Think about that.

Electric cars are not perfect but they are better than internal combustion vehicles with respect to pollution. They are not the final solution but represent a change in paradigm.
Manny

 

[drmanny3]

I was doing some searching for additional information. I ran across an article that mentioned that the Nissan Leaf for 2014 will drop in price (Due to the US factory opening) but also be capable of charging via an induction system (Wireless). Also as in Japan you can hook your leaf up to your house and during a grid shut down use your Leaf's battery to run your household stuff. So as you now can charge your iPhone by induction the same will occur with the Leaf. Mercedes, and Audi are all working on similar technology. You can imagine that some day the roads will have induction system inbedded so that the cars can charge while they travel. Change is a happening

 

[enesexo]

^ That last part is pretty sick, I want an nsx coupe before everything goes electric though!:tongue:

 

[2slow2speed]

I was doing some searching for additional information. I ran across an article that mentioned that the Nissan Leaf for 2014 will drop in price (Due to the US factory opening) but also be capable of charging via an induction system (Wireless). Also as in Japan you can hook your leaf up to your house and during a grid shut down use your Leaf's battery to run your household stuff. So as you now can charge your iPhone by induction the same will occur with the Leaf. Mercedes, and Audi are all working on similar technology. You can imagine that some day the roads will have induction system inbedded so that the cars can charge while they travel. Change is a happening

Seriously, I sure would not like to be exposed to a high strength magnetic field that is alternating at high frequencies on the road. Magnetic fields unlike electric fields are very hard to shield from, careful what you wish for

 

[swbatte]

No - I think it could be great. Reference the Porsche GT3 R Hybrid.

Click here for specs

How can we not be excited about the prospects?

 

[drmanny3]

Hey while I love technology, I am trying to figure out how to use a clothes pin to attach the cardboard to the fender so that when the leaf goes forward it will make a put put sound. Now only old folks like myself will understand what I am talking about.

It is kind of interesting though to think of how we will power our future. Perhaps it will be a combo of hydrogen fuel and some kind of induction system. Someone will pull up a old memory and ask why were they burning shit and making so much noise just to go from one place to another?

 

[biscuits]

Oh goody another liberal from California has decided to grace us with there vast superior knowledge.

I could debunk all your bs about global warming all day but it won't change your mind so why bother. Go sit in your new geek cars that used a huge amount of natural resources to manufacture to make you feel good about yourself while your state continues its downward slide into bankruptcy and irrelivancecy due to its far superior liberal ideology.

 

[heySkippy]

The air exiting a modern internal combustion engine is cleaner than the air that goes into it.

Considering the absence of oxygen, can you really call what comes out of the exhaust pipe "air"?

 

[heySkippy]

Having said that I can tell you that my 2001 NSX-T that has a comptech SC at 5 lbs gets approximately 14 to 24 mpg. On average at $4.00 per gallon it costs me about $0.25 per mile for fuel. My Prius gets 40 mpg to 44 mpg and at $3.75 per gallon costs me about $0.09 per mile. My 2011 Nissan Leaf all electric gets about 75 miles on a charge based upon freeway driving and a little bit of street driving. It has a 24kWh battery that requires 24kW of power to charge. I am charging the car at night (automatically) from midnight to 6 AM. Southern California Edison SCE charges me $0.10 kWh. Therefore it costs me $2.40 per fill up. Take the reasonable 75 miles driving range and do the math (remember science) and you get $0.03 per mile.

Everybody who thinks much about cost per mile while driving their NSX, raise your hand.

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That's what I thought.

IMO the ONLY reason to put electric motors on the front wheels of the new NSX is to make it faster. Doing so because it's "green" is retarded.

 

[drmanny3]

Oh goody another liberal from California has decided to grace us with there vast superior knowledge.

I could debunk all your bs about global warming all day but it won't change your mind so why bother. Go sit in your new geek cars that used a huge amount of natural resources to manufacture to make you feel good about yourself while your state continues its downward slide into bankruptcy and irrelivancecy due to its far superior liberal ideology.

I would welcome some science from your neck of the woods. Go ahead impress me with your expertise.

 

[Juice]

I was doing some searching for additional information. I ran across an article that mentioned that the Nissan Leaf for 2014 will drop in price (Due to the US factory opening) but also be capable of charging via an induction system (Wireless). Also as in Japan you can hook your leaf up to your house and during a grid shut down use your Leaf's battery to run your household stuff. So as you now can charge your iPhone by induction the same will occur with the Leaf. Mercedes, and Audi are all working on similar technology. You can imagine that some day the roads will have induction system inbedded so that the cars can charge while they travel. Change is a happening

I thought induction was 30% less efficient than a plug??? Great for cooking but horrible for charging a car.

 

[Vega$ NSX]

Consider...

Roughly 150,000,000 or so registered cars in the US. Each car has a few hundred pounds of batteries. When these cars start to turn over, we are looking at tens of BILLIONS of pounds of batteries. And that's just in the US.

Where will these batteries go? Where will the materials come from to make up the supply?

 

[biscuits]

I would welcome some science from your neck of the woods. Go ahead impress me with your expertise.

On which subject in particular? Solar variances and how those combined with the axis of earth having more to do with earth temp variables than man does? The fact that no one seems to know what earths average temp is suppose to be? Or California's completely backward liberal ideology that is driving corporations and people with money who are being taxed to death for the sake of this weeks liberal cause out of the state at an alarming rate? Or howabout just a broad discussion on how liberals in general have such a huge smugness about them that makes them nauseating?

But gollee you best talk putty slow cause I'm just an old hillbilly who don't know too much about nothing!
Cause ya see I'm too busy living off my self sustained 90 acres where I grow my own vegetables, beef, poultry and provide my own heat, cooling and water without relying on those big evil corporations to deliver my brand spanking new electric hippy car so that I feel good about myself.

 

[dirtbag]

I'd love to see one of these AEGT style events. The number of laps would fit my attention span perfectly.

Maybe they can turn it into a "drive-in" where people can watch a movie and have lunch while the cars recharge.

 

[Joker]

Consider...

Roughly 150,000,000 or so registered cars in the US. Each car has a few hundred pounds of batteries. When these cars start to turn over, we are looking at tens of BILLIONS of pounds of batteries. And that's just in the US.

Where will these batteries go? Where will the materials come from to make up the supply?

They will go back to China and they will replenish them for you.