I found this on another forum and it was very good. It helps us to understand why we are there....
http://www.clermontyellow.accountsupport.com/flash/UntilThen.swf
http://www.clermontyellow.accountsupport.com/flash/UntilThen.swf
Iraq video
- Thread starter newby
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yes that helped but then again we shouldn't be there period.
thanks for sharing the link Adam.. it is very moving indeed.
Gil, I understand your point but this link is a tribute for our service men and women and their families... lets not make it a debate on whether they should be there or not.
During Vietnam, Americans were so wound up over politics that they took it out on our soldiers. Something that I hope is never repeated again.
Gil, I understand your point but this link is a tribute for our service men and women and their families... lets not make it a debate on whether they should be there or not.
During Vietnam, Americans were so wound up over politics that they took it out on our soldiers. Something that I hope is never repeated again.
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I apologize. It gets to me, here where I am at here on Ft Hood and concidering the fact that 90% of my family is active duty bothers me. I don't like debates I do give my thumbs up to all who have served our country this way.
gil
gil
It's just a moving video that helped me see that there is some good out of this war....whether you support it or not. The look on those children's faces helps me understand a bit better as to why we are there.... :smile:
Nice pictures.
You may want to consider asking a moderator to move the thread to the Off-Topic section.
You may want to consider asking a moderator to move the thread to the Off-Topic section.
Sig said:
good point.... Moderator please do me the honor! thanks :biggrin:
Helping so many people was one of the best things while I was there last time. We did so much and helped so much that it really makes you feel good that you helped these people and gave them something that they have never had and would have never had without you. When I leave again here soon, real soon, I hope I can do the same for even more people.
Nick
Nick
Good Luck to you and all that are there right this moment.19dcavscout said:
I think we are doing the right thing for the people. Yes, they may not be Americans we are helping, but for the millions that were abused, we are giving them some hope for the future. We should be proud as a country for doing the right thing.
19dcavscout said:
I'm sure they are all very greatful. Especially these people...
(warning: very graphic)
Picture 1
Picture 2
Picture 3
Picture 4
Picture 5
Picture 6
Democracy is great and all, but war is the worst possibility given any situation and must be avoided at all costs. There can be nothing worse than war. :frown: :frown:
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Mr.Eric5273, we all know your opinion on the Iraqi war. Those images will offend many viewers.
How do you know that americans caused those pictures? I have seen Iraqi's fighting amongst them selves when one of the pulls a weapon or grenade and takes out several innocent people walking by. And war is not the worst thing in the history of the world. You wanna know what is? Not being able to have the freedom that people deserve because some guy has a power trip. And besides, without war you would not be here today enjoying the things you enjoy. This country was founded on war.
So long as there are men there will be wars
--Albert Einstein
Nick
So long as there are men there will be wars
--Albert Einstein
Nick
And one more thing:
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
--John Stuart Mill
Nick
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
--John Stuart Mill
Nick
This is an issue that can stir up some real debate. Probably debat that will only end badely (Moderator will shut it down )....
I know it's hard to put personal feellings aside, but I posted this video because it gave me a more positive outlook on the war. I have feelings and opinions for both sides of this war.....but the video showed some positive images of what's going on over there. Something the media rarely shows.
Try and keep that in mind when watching it or responding to other's opinions.
I know it's hard to put personal feellings aside, but I posted this video because it gave me a more positive outlook on the war. I have feelings and opinions for both sides of this war.....but the video showed some positive images of what's going on over there. Something the media rarely shows.
Try and keep that in mind when watching it or responding to other's opinions.
The public in general only sees what the media shows them. They don't see the good work we do out there. Media doesnt show you the houses and schools we build or treating the sick and wounded. Yeah, some service members have conducted themselves in a manner other than honorable but those are very few. Some feel we shouldnt be there at all, but we are already neck deep in it.
Regardless of the pics you have shown, I think all of those who lost someone in 9/11 will tell you there is a war going on, whether we want it or not. Saddam was a threat not in the normal sense you would think (a la North Korea with nukes), but rather in thumbing his nose to the UN and giving the terrorists reason to think we would not bring the war to them directly (pre-9/11 at least) other than sending a few cruise missles overhead as a rebuttal to an attack. I think Bush saw a larger picture than many of us do, in that the only way to possibly curb terrorism would be to spread democracy in the middle east vs. the oppression many civilians there currently suffer. To get democracy to take hold, he went after the 2 most oppressed countries there that he could make a reasonable case in invading, and I think the hope is that possibly in the long term, Saudis, Iranians, Syrians, etc. will be influenced to revolt against the current government structures in their countries. Will it work? Heck if I know, but history has shown us that it takes many decades to truly determine if our commander-in-chief was sucessful while in office. I hope we all can look back upon this fight as worthwhile and meaningful in the scope of stability in that part of the world.
Err... haven't we already been down this debate before??? Eric, you obviously feel very strongly about this subject but wasn't the 300+ posts thread enough? 
Those dead body photos don't tell the full story. Posting them and expecting me to believe every dead person in civilian-dress is an innocent casuality is pretty presumptious. US Soldiers aren't over there shooting everything that moves.
War is sometimes a necessary evil. And while US, UK and Australian citizens can debate whether or not we should have gone to war, it's too late to pull out now. It's not worth debating.
Now that we've spent a minute remembering those fighting for freedom, let's go back to enjoying it... z06 vs 355 vs NSX... who would win?!
<B>newby</B>: While I'm not American, that was a very touching presentation. thanks for posting it. <IMG SRC="http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif">
Those dead body photos don't tell the full story. Posting them and expecting me to believe every dead person in civilian-dress is an innocent casuality is pretty presumptious. US Soldiers aren't over there shooting everything that moves.
War is sometimes a necessary evil. And while US, UK and Australian citizens can debate whether or not we should have gone to war, it's too late to pull out now. It's not worth debating.
Now that we've spent a minute remembering those fighting for freedom, let's go back to enjoying it... z06 vs 355 vs NSX... who would win?!
<B>newby</B>: While I'm not American, that was a very touching presentation. thanks for posting it. <IMG SRC="http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif">
And before you can say anythign about american soldiers shooting civilians, yes it has happened. It will always happen. Civilian casualties is always a cost of war. The main problem we have is over there is that we dont ever really know who is truely innocent. Imagine going to the mall and not knowing who is there minding there own business and who wants to kill you. It puts you on edge, trust me. So what would you do if one of these people start acting sort of suspicious? I would keep an eye on them. And if they do something that I beleive is threatening? Well I go by the 3 shot rule; first shot is a warning shot, the second a wounding shot, the third is to kill. I put the weapon on 3 round burst and I am good to go. We have a saying in the unit I am in, "Better to be tried by 12 than carried by six."
Nick
Nick
The pictures above are from before the ground troops went in. They are casualties from the intial bombing campaign in March 2003. Most of the casualties have been a result of bombing and not shooting or street battles.
As far as war goes, everything you say about war is true. I am not blaming the soldiers. They are trained to follow orders and to hate the enemy -- this is the only way a person can kill another person without mentally losing it. Still, many vetrans come back from wars and have mental probelms for the rest of their lives. They are as much victims of this as those they kill -- and this goes for both sides. As I said above, war is a terrible thing that must be avoided at all costs.
To me, trying to justify war is no different than trying to justify slavery, or genocide, or any other of the evils of the world. There is no justification.
As far as war goes, everything you say about war is true. I am not blaming the soldiers. They are trained to follow orders and to hate the enemy -- this is the only way a person can kill another person without mentally losing it. Still, many vetrans come back from wars and have mental probelms for the rest of their lives. They are as much victims of this as those they kill -- and this goes for both sides. As I said above, war is a terrible thing that must be avoided at all costs.
To me, trying to justify war is no different than trying to justify slavery, or genocide, or any other of the evils of the world. There is no justification.
Yes I am trained to follow orders and to kill, but no, I'm not trained to hate. Where do you come off with that? I sure as hell have no problem pulling that trigger. When rounds are coming my way I'm not gonna sit there and do nothing about it. Its either me or them. Guess what i'm gonna do. I dont care if its a woman or child holding that AK-47 either.
NSXrebel said:
I think a better way to phrase Eric's comments is..."trained to survive"....not "Trained to hate". However, I don't doubt that some people have to convince themselves to hate the enemy in order to survive.... whatever keeps them alive is what's important.
